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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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The Truth, I need an answer
    #320082 -
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Alright, well I know a little bit about shrooms I mean more then the average tripper. Most info all learned online and experiences. I have been haveing an on going argument with my buddy about shrooms. He feels that you can easly overdose on them. I say I have heared of only a few cases. He also tells me if your mind shuts down or you think you are going to die your mind can stop your bodily functions. This all came about because his friend and my friend lost it bad one night he went into convulsions on the floor and was positive of his death coming that night. So what I would really like to know is what are the statistics on overdosing from shrooms how many have OD and if they did why? My friends that have went on bad trips had nothing to do with the dose, in fact they took avg. doses just hit them extremly hard and almost evil like. (also they didn't fast and their moods were good) I would like to read up more on how the chemicals in mushrooms effect your brain and so on. SO I can have a valied argurment, and if I'm right calm my friends down about the thought of OD on shrooms. I would hate myself if I gave my friends shrooms and they OD. Sorry about the length of this, any intelligent and well backed info would be nice thanks.


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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: JayBeE]
    #320085 -

I don't know that I have ever overdosed on shrooms I have eaten 15 grams of pretty good shrooms and tripped balls but overdose?? some here will give you a good answer

www.thehawkseye.com
Sacred Mushroom Spores
remember, behind every great fortune there is an even greater crime


--------------------
Dr.Bluethumbs
RAFFLE to help out GS and his 7 month old daughter

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: JayBeE]
    #320240 -

first of all your friends are totally uninformed. i dont believe anybody has ever died from eating shrooms (you would probably have to eat your own body weight in them to do that) they are one of the safest drugs around, same goes for acid

We're all mad here...


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So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. - Galatians 5:16

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: HB]
    #320248 -

Sean you can OD on acid.

Everyone has their own path, but in the end all those paths meet at one road. And that my friend, is the road to enlightenment.


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Everyone has their own path, but in the end all those paths meet at one road. And that my friend, is the road to enlightenment.

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: JayBeE]
    #320254 -

all on board the sleepy train! next stop general ques.

"Nothing is absolute except for the absence of absoluteness"

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Re: also.. [Re: JayBeE]
    #320268 -
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Also I guess I would like to know whats the proability of fucking your mind up bad? Does it happen from very large doses or is it casued mostly from repeated use.


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The Truth, I need an answer [Re: JayBeE]
    #320270 -

Alright, well I know a little bit about shrooms I mean more then the average tripper. Most info all learned online and experiences. I have been haveing an on going argument with my buddy about shrooms. He feels that you can easly overdose on them. I say I have heared of only a few cases. He also tells me if your mind shuts down or you think you are going to die your mind can stop your bodily functions. This all came about because his friend and my friend lost it bad one night he went into convulsions on the floor and was positive of his death coming that night. So what I would really like to know is what are the statistics on overdosing from shrooms how many have OD and if they did why? My friends that have went on bad trips had nothing to do with the dose, in fact they took avg. doses just hit them extremly hard and almost evil like. (also they didn't fast and their moods were good) I would like to read up more on how the chemicals in mushrooms effect your brain and so on. SO I can have a valied argurment, and if I'm right calm my friends down about the thought of OD on shrooms. I would hate myself if I gave my friends shrooms and they OD. Sorry about the length of this, any intelligent and well backed info would be nice thanks.




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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: JayBeE]
    #320282 -

this doesnt belong here... you are the weakest link goodbye!

"Nothing is absolute except for the absence of absoluteness"

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: CDXX]
    #320285 -

No you can't (OD on acid), or shrooms either... Well I guess you COULD, but in order to get your hands on that much acid you'd have to be a multi-millionaire... I have known (crazy) people to gobble up a half a sheet, and they tripped longer than usual, but were fine by the next night....It is pretty tough to overdose on any psychedelic... The problem would more likely be the person taking the psychedelic being weak-minded, and having suicidal thoughts while dosed, becuase of their mind being more reflective and inner-looking. I have never heard of anyone dying from acid or shrooms, except the occasional IDIOT that jumps out a window or something... But hey, they would have done that eventually, while drunk one night or something, anyway.


//sananaB cinataS tronS I//


--------------------
//sananaB cinataS tronS I//

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: JayBeE]
    #320412 -

As far as I can know (not much about LSD) can't overdose on LSD. You defiatley not overdose on shrooms, it's impossible. Tell your friends to educate themself a bit more. In theory is possible, but in practice you would rupture your stomach before overdose.





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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: JayBeE]
    #320421 -

Estimated LD50 of Psilocybin 641 doses of 16mg

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/health/psychoactives_ld50s.shtml


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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: zeuzjuz]
    #320428 -

> being weak-minded, and having suicidal thoughts while dosed, becuase of their mind being more reflective and inner-looking.

oh, so that's how you tell that people are weak minded?

> I have never heard of anyone dying from acid or shrooms, except the occasional IDIOT that jumps out a window or something... But hey, they would have done that eventually, while drunk one night or something, anyway.


You sound like the co-founder of the WHBF.


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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: goblin]
    #320429 -

it's not impossible to OD on LSD or shrooms, but it is very difficult or impractical.


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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: Kid]
    #320593 -

Read my post again, I worded it weird, but I wasn't saying being reflective and introverted means you are weak minded, that's why I used the conjuction 'and' in that sentence. I meant a combination of being weak minded, AND being introverted could lead you to be suicidal, with or without drugs.
I hate having my words twisted.



//sananaB cinataS tronS I//


--------------------
//sananaB cinataS tronS I//

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: zeuzjuz]
    #320597 -

BTW, I also find it strange that someone who professes other people to be evil and uncaring, would use terms such as the Worthless Human Being Foundation. At least I'm not calling other humans 'worthless'.


//sananaB cinataS tronS I//


--------------------
//sananaB cinataS tronS I//

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: Kid]
    #320625 -

the only reported OD on LSD is 800Mg yes milligrams straight in the vien. I heard buddah dies of a mushroom O.D., I don't beleive it but a history teacher at my school sure does. I am gonna go pass out now an think about that I have done tongiht, I wonder how many police will be lookin for me towmarrow.

-=PeAcE+-


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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: JayBeE]
    #320980 -

OD?? On shrooms?? that's something like twice your body weight just to reach LD50. Have your friend doo some reasearch.

'The fool on the hill sees the sun going down,
and the eyes in his head see the world spinning 'round'
-The Beatles



--------------------
[pot]Think left and think right[pot]
[pot]and think low and think high[pot]
[pot]Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try[pot]
-Dr. Seuss

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: zeuzjuz]
    #321916 -

It's a joke, an exaggeration, a hyperbole. Nothing to get fired up about.

BTW I am the sole founder of the WHBF. Psycho has supported us from the beginning and for that he is an honorary inductee (to the board, of course, not the general membership). Being a moderator might get in the way. Kid you sound like a potential partner. zeuzjuz, you sound far to nice to be on the board and have proven too useful to be a member. Meeting adjourned

This space has been donated to the WHBF. For more information, ask.


--------------------
First person to PM me with a truly witty sig gets to see their words at the bottom of my posts :wink:

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: zeuzjuz]
    #322036 -

I don't label people "evil".


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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: Kid]
    #322089 -

You're right, you never said 'evil'. Sorry I over-reacted, and Krendle: reading your post was weird, like it kind of reflected myself back to me, and made me think maybe that is really how people see me on boards. "to nice to be on the board and have proven too useful to be a member. Meeting adjourned"... haha weird. Anyway, no hard feelings to anyone, it's all in fun. By the way, so as not to veer off the subject too far. What was the original posters' name? Well, anyway, I think the conclusion was drawn that you shouldn't eat more than your body weight in shrooms in one sitting. You'll be alright.


//sananaB cinataS tronS I//


--------------------
//sananaB cinataS tronS I//

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: zeuzjuz]
    #322850 -

You have to be truly worthless for me to admit you into the WHBF. Maybe with some practice you can aspire to worthless posts like "d00d i think my bakache is from acid living in my spine y0..."

This space has been donated to the WHBF. For more information, ask.


--------------------
First person to PM me with a truly witty sig gets to see their words at the bottom of my posts :wink:

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: zeuzjuz]
    #322851 -

You have to be truly worthless for me to admit you into the WHBF. Maybe with some practice you can aspire to worthless posts like "d00d i think my bakache is from acid living in my spine y0..."

and your sig is far too interesting. something written in white suburbanite ebonic wannabe speak would be more appropriate if you want to seek membership in the WHBF.

Good luck in future endeavors.

This space has been donated to the WHBF. For more information, ask.


--------------------
First person to PM me with a truly witty sig gets to see their words at the bottom of my posts :wink:

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: Krendle]
    #4876380 -

You can only overdose mentally, physically you're fine. I don't know how often it happens, but I do know that some people have experiences of death or rebirth while tripping, and that these experiences can have an incredibly healing potential.

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: Pasco]
    #4878608 -

A year ago there was a similar thread on this topic. Wiccan Seeker gave a considered and informative answer to the question in this post . In short, LD50 is very high, but epileptic seizures are possible at much lower doses.


--------------------

"You should view the world as a conspiracy run by a very closely-knit group of nearly omnipotent people, and you should think of that group as yourself and your friends."

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: koppie]
    #4878748 -

Always nice to be quoted  ^_^

Ok, nobody can give you the truth but we all can approach it with likelinesses. Here's mine:

I think the figures quoted in literature are BS50: likely to be BS in 50% of cases :evil:

Those figures have been extrapolated onto humans from tests with rats and similar critters. The problem with those extrapolations is that you can't do that.

A good example is Dioxin. Dioxin is an enviromental pollutant chemically unrelated to Psilocin. But: nobody saw it coming that it would turn out to be one of the most toxic small molecules known to man. There were animal tests, and this is where my point lies: It turned out that some animals died at a mcg/kg dose that was ten thousand times lower than that of other animals.

So my point is that you really can't say how toxic something will be to humans if you merely did a couple of animal tests. To this date even the most well-researched new pharmaceuticals have to be withdrawn from the market due to side effects that slipped though the most painstaking computer models, animal testing and limited clinical trials.

You could argue "there are millennia of ethnobotanical use so it's safe." Well: no actually. Datura actually has millennia of ethnobotanical use, but when you die by overdose a local spirit is blamed for it, rather than the limited knowledge of the local shaman. If you hunted a treemonkey and got wrapped in a 30ft anaconda, pounced by a jaguar and acupunctured by dengue-carrying mosquitos while you drink from their cholera-infested creek and pirhanas nip at your nose, then an ethnobotanical might seem a haven of safety but that does not mean it is safe to our standards.

but enough of that, let's get to business:

Let's say you got a mushroom (the common Cubie, Psilocybe cubensis) with a decent amount of psiloc(yb)in in it: 10gr fresh = 1gr dry = 6mg alkaloids on average, or double to half that in extremes.
Now the active principle is 4-HO-DMT, psilocin, which psilocybin is broken down into.

People usually take 1-5 grams of these mushrooms, typically between 2-2.5gr. (average dose aimed for = 15mg 4-HO-DMT)

If you are going for capacity gorging you can take 500gr of dried cubies, grind them to a fine powder, mix them with one liter of water into three bowls of a stiff porridge and eat that, this being equivalent to the amount eaten in a vegetarian's christmas dinner. (warning: may cause mechanical rupture of the stomach or GI blockage)

This would on average contain three grams of 4-HO-DMT, the ratio being 1.5-6 grams. At 100-400x the amount of active principle typically aimed for by shroomerites that is an awfully large quantity.

If you instead pig out on freshly picked mushroom a dedicated tummystuffer could get 1.5kg of those in there too (equivalent to about 3 regular-sized bags of culinary mushrooms), and in this case it would contain about 0.5-2gr of 5-HO-DMT, a 33-133x increase.

The closest thing to 4-HO-DMT would ofcourse be DMT, which only differs from it by a single oxygen atom.
DMT is not orally active, but needs a MAOI added to become orally active in the 25mg range typically found in a glass of ayahuasca.

For those in the know: imagine having a glass of ayahuasca and stirring five grams of DMT hydrochloride into it to arrive at the same 200-fold multiplication of the average dose, or like in the conservative estimate: 1.65gr of DMT hydrochloride?
Does this sound like a non-OD situation?

If you get "too much" DMT or LSD you will fall in an unconscious state. With DMT however this happens much sooner that with LSD, and psilocybin is much closer chemically to DMT than to LSD.

An undeniable fact you see here at the shroomery is that people go into convulsive states (something like epilepsy) on unremarkable doses of mushrooms. I've read several cases of 1/8oz, for instance.
The higher the dose, the more people fall prey to this.
Would there be a dosage where we'd all writhe and convulse on the floor? If you get an IM injection of over 100mg IM DMT it seems that way. Psiloc(yb)in is not LSD!

Most drugs which cause convulsions will with an increasing dose cause increasingly severe convulsions. The state of severe prolonged convulsions, regardless of what induces it, is associated with permanent brain damage, muscle rupture and broken bones and death by exhaustion.

So perhaps if doses get mind-warpingly high but still are realistically achievable by some sorry individual, the human organism will get into a convulsive state which may be crippling or lethal in doses totally unrelated to the amounts rats can take.

Think of that can of soda you just had: if it were filled with puree'd fresh mushrooms it would be equivalent to one ounce dried and if it contained the porridge it would be 4oz dried.
Would you be dead sure that 1-4 ounces of dried mushrooms (8-32x a high 1/8oz dose) which you could gobble down just like that, would be "totally harmless"?

I for one would not bet on it.
The highest dose I ever witnessed here on the shroomery was just shy of one ounce dried, and said person at the summit of effect took showers contemplasting his life, which to me signals there's an UNBELIEVABLE tolerance at work there which would very likely also be a tolerance to convulsive effects.

I am not at all sure if a 1 dried ounce dose can be taken by Joe Shroom with no previous tolerance. If I see people describe convulsions at 1/8oz and even at 1/16oz then in my view a whole ounce, containing some 175mg psiloc(yb)in on average, would be dangerous, and in fact I recall to have read some book stating the "maximum safe dose" as 150mg, alas without references or details.

Bottom line: as I see it you can indeed take doses which are directly harmful to the majority of people. These doses however are so incredibly high that they are unlikely to be taken - but entirely possible to ingest from a GI point of view.

Edited by Asante (11/01/05 08:18 AM)

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: Asante]
    #4879746 -

I don't know know about OD on shrooms or acid but this story is absolutly true and a shame. One of my old friends had a friend who used to make acid. Was quite good at it to. Any how, one fateful night he had a bucket (5 gallon) filled with liquid acid and unfortunatly spilled it all over his leg. His friend never died but is completely "lost in space" if you will. From the way i figure it, if you can spill an entire 5 gallon bucket filled with acid all over your leg and not die (but go seriously insane) then there is no way you can OD on acid.

-ERik

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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: JayBeE]
    #4879778 -

Im sure you can overdose on anything. Overdose= more than a dose.

Dose an overdose mean you have to die? Afraid not.


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Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!

afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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