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OfflineKrendle
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Registered: 11/12/00
Posts: 1,166
Last seen: 20 years, 3 months
Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: zeuzjuz]
    #322850 - 05/22/01 05:55 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

You have to be truly worthless for me to admit you into the WHBF. Maybe with some practice you can aspire to worthless posts like "d00d i think my bakache is from acid living in my spine y0..."

This space has been donated to the WHBF. For more information, ask.


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First person to PM me with a truly witty sig gets to see their words at the bottom of my posts :wink:


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OfflineKrendle
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Registered: 11/12/00
Posts: 1,166
Last seen: 20 years, 3 months
Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: zeuzjuz]
    #322851 - 05/22/01 05:57 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

You have to be truly worthless for me to admit you into the WHBF. Maybe with some practice you can aspire to worthless posts like "d00d i think my bakache is from acid living in my spine y0..."

and your sig is far too interesting. something written in white suburbanite ebonic wannabe speak would be more appropriate if you want to seek membership in the WHBF.

Good luck in future endeavors.

This space has been donated to the WHBF. For more information, ask.


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First person to PM me with a truly witty sig gets to see their words at the bottom of my posts :wink:


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OfflinePasco
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Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 10
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: Krendle]
    #4876380 - 11/01/05 03:22 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

You can only overdose mentally, physically you're fine. I don't know how often it happens, but I do know that some people have experiences of death or rebirth while tripping, and that these experiences can have an incredibly healing potential.


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Invisiblekoppie
astral projectile
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Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 2,653
Loc: cloud hidden
Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: Pasco]
    #4878608 - 11/01/05 03:33 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

A year ago there was a similar thread on this topic. Wiccan Seeker gave a considered and informative answer to the question in this post . In short, LD50 is very high, but epileptic seizures are possible at much lower doses.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 82,570
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Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: koppie]
    #4878748 - 11/01/05 05:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Always nice to be quoted  ^_^

Ok, nobody can give you the truth but we all can approach it with likelinesses. Here's mine:

I think the figures quoted in literature are BS50: likely to be BS in 50% of cases :evil:

Those figures have been extrapolated onto humans from tests with rats and similar critters. The problem with those extrapolations is that you can't do that.

A good example is Dioxin. Dioxin is an enviromental pollutant chemically unrelated to Psilocin. But: nobody saw it coming that it would turn out to be one of the most toxic small molecules known to man. There were animal tests, and this is where my point lies: It turned out that some animals died at a mcg/kg dose that was ten thousand times lower than that of other animals.

So my point is that you really can't say how toxic something will be to humans if you merely did a couple of animal tests. To this date even the most well-researched new pharmaceuticals have to be withdrawn from the market due to side effects that slipped though the most painstaking computer models, animal testing and limited clinical trials.

You could argue "there are millennia of ethnobotanical use so it's safe." Well: no actually. Datura actually has millennia of ethnobotanical use, but when you die by overdose a local spirit is blamed for it, rather than the limited knowledge of the local shaman. If you hunted a treemonkey and got wrapped in a 30ft anaconda, pounced by a jaguar and acupunctured by dengue-carrying mosquitos while you drink from their cholera-infested creek and pirhanas nip at your nose, then an ethnobotanical might seem a haven of safety but that does not mean it is safe to our standards.

but enough of that, let's get to business:

Let's say you got a mushroom (the common Cubie, Psilocybe cubensis) with a decent amount of psiloc(yb)in in it: 10gr fresh = 1gr dry = 6mg alkaloids on average, or double to half that in extremes.
Now the active principle is 4-HO-DMT, psilocin, which psilocybin is broken down into.

People usually take 1-5 grams of these mushrooms, typically between 2-2.5gr. (average dose aimed for = 15mg 4-HO-DMT)

If you are going for capacity gorging you can take 500gr of dried cubies, grind them to a fine powder, mix them with one liter of water into three bowls of a stiff porridge and eat that, this being equivalent to the amount eaten in a vegetarian's christmas dinner. (warning: may cause mechanical rupture of the stomach or GI blockage)

This would on average contain three grams of 4-HO-DMT, the ratio being 1.5-6 grams. At 100-400x the amount of active principle typically aimed for by shroomerites that is an awfully large quantity.

If you instead pig out on freshly picked mushroom a dedicated tummystuffer could get 1.5kg of those in there too (equivalent to about 3 regular-sized bags of culinary mushrooms), and in this case it would contain about 0.5-2gr of 5-HO-DMT, a 33-133x increase.

The closest thing to 4-HO-DMT would ofcourse be DMT, which only differs from it by a single oxygen atom.
DMT is not orally active, but needs a MAOI added to become orally active in the 25mg range typically found in a glass of ayahuasca.

For those in the know: imagine having a glass of ayahuasca and stirring five grams of DMT hydrochloride into it to arrive at the same 200-fold multiplication of the average dose, or like in the conservative estimate: 1.65gr of DMT hydrochloride?
Does this sound like a non-OD situation?

If you get "too much" DMT or LSD you will fall in an unconscious state. With DMT however this happens much sooner that with LSD, and psilocybin is much closer chemically to DMT than to LSD.

An undeniable fact you see here at the shroomery is that people go into convulsive states (something like epilepsy) on unremarkable doses of mushrooms. I've read several cases of 1/8oz, for instance.
The higher the dose, the more people fall prey to this.
Would there be a dosage where we'd all writhe and convulse on the floor? If you get an IM injection of over 100mg IM DMT it seems that way. Psiloc(yb)in is not LSD!

Most drugs which cause convulsions will with an increasing dose cause increasingly severe convulsions. The state of severe prolonged convulsions, regardless of what induces it, is associated with permanent brain damage, muscle rupture and broken bones and death by exhaustion.

So perhaps if doses get mind-warpingly high but still are realistically achievable by some sorry individual, the human organism will get into a convulsive state which may be crippling or lethal in doses totally unrelated to the amounts rats can take.

Think of that can of soda you just had: if it were filled with puree'd fresh mushrooms it would be equivalent to one ounce dried and if it contained the porridge it would be 4oz dried.
Would you be dead sure that 1-4 ounces of dried mushrooms (8-32x a high 1/8oz dose) which you could gobble down just like that, would be "totally harmless"?

I for one would not bet on it.
The highest dose I ever witnessed here on the shroomery was just shy of one ounce dried, and said person at the summit of effect took showers contemplasting his life, which to me signals there's an UNBELIEVABLE tolerance at work there which would very likely also be a tolerance to convulsive effects.

I am not at all sure if a 1 dried ounce dose can be taken by Joe Shroom with no previous tolerance. If I see people describe convulsions at 1/8oz and even at 1/16oz then in my view a whole ounce, containing some 175mg psiloc(yb)in on average, would be dangerous, and in fact I recall to have read some book stating the "maximum safe dose" as 150mg, alas without references or details.

Bottom line: as I see it you can indeed take doses which are directly harmful to the majority of people. These doses however are so incredibly high that they are unlikely to be taken - but entirely possible to ingest from a GI point of view.


Edited by Asante (11/01/05 05:18 PM)


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Offlinesic_zim85
Bach's Bitch

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 225
Loc: Brainsville
Last seen: 15 years, 14 days
Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: Asante]
    #4879746 - 11/01/05 10:32 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know know about OD on shrooms or acid but this story is absolutly true and a shame. One of my old friends had a friend who used to make acid. Was quite good at it to. Any how, one fateful night he had a bucket (5 gallon) filled with liquid acid and unfortunatly spilled it all over his leg. His friend never died but is completely "lost in space" if you will. From the way i figure it, if you can spill an entire 5 gallon bucket filled with acid all over your leg and not die (but go seriously insane) then there is no way you can OD on acid.

-ERik


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InvisibleJim
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 20,922
Re: The Truth, I need an answer [Re: JayBeE]
    #4879778 - 11/01/05 10:42 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Im sure you can overdose on anything. Overdose= more than a dose.

Dose an overdose mean you have to die? Afraid not.


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Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!

afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.


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