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OfflineCyber
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Addiction or habit ?
    #3191880 - 09/28/04 04:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

This came up in another thread and I think it needs a thread of it's own.

The reason is simple. I remember when cigarettes were "A Bad Habit" and not an addiction. The reason for this was that cigarettes manifested no physical quantitative withdrawls. Basically there was no physical NEED only a mental one. Even now listening to people talk about quiting you will often here how they want one, need one, etc. There are no shakes, delusional breaks from reality, no DT's etc. when quiting.

For many years the classification of addiction required that it meet certain criteria

#1 The development of tolerance (needing more and more of the drug to achieve the same effect)
#2 Physical withdrawal symptoms that appear when the user stops taking the drug, and disappear when more of the drug is taken.

Some time around 1975 the definition was changed to now read

"Compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance"

Or even better The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual 4th edition (DSM-IV) describes addiction as the development of a maladaptive pattern of medication use that leads to clinically significant impairment or distress in personal or occupational roles. It includes: a great deal of time used to obtain the medication, or recover from its effects; loss of control over medication use; continuation of drug use after medical or psychological adverse events have occurred.

The medical community now defines addiction as "uncontrolled, compulsive use despite harm"; if there is no harm to the patient or another party, there is no addiction.

So the question is What is Addiction to you?

Is smoking an addiction or a habit? How about mushrooms? or Pot?

To put forward my point of view on smoking.

Smoking is a habit and not an addiction. If it were an addiction to nicotine then the nicotine patches would have a success rate better than the current 2%


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Addiction or habit ? [Re: Cyber]
    #3191922 - 09/28/04 04:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

nicotine = addiction
no bad physical effects? the reason they want one/need one is because not having nicotine makes them feel bad --> physical effect.

mushrooms = no addiction
depends on the user; although one might be craving for another cool experiance but nothing will happen if you don't eat shrooms ever again

pot = no addiction/addiction
depends on the user; more of a mental craving for being high. one might feel less good when quitting but that's how it feels not to be high. not below your usual, not high, level of mood. that's why it's just mentally addictive for some people.


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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: Addiction or habit ? [Re: Cyber]
    #3191978 - 09/28/04 04:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Well, I'm going to differentiate between smoking and nicotine. Smoking is a strange habit, that alot of people enjoy. it could encompase alot of substances and plants, some of which arent active. Just the act of smoking.

Nicotine is quite addictive, I've seen... I have family that cannot stop at all, and it's probably going to be their death.. (The definition of addictive)

Weed isnt addictive, (the same family member has given up weed, but cant give up cigs....) it makes life more intresting, but certainly not I want a fuckin joint... its more I cant wait to get home and relax with a joint...


--------------------


Edited by HarveyWalbanger (09/29/04 12:15 AM)


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InvisibleHendostan
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Re: Addiction or habit ? [Re: Cyber]
    #3192000 - 09/28/04 05:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I have most certainly seen people with bad physical withdrawl from quitting cigarettes, myself included. Luckily, I was successful, but I believe nicotine is one of the most physically addictive substances that exists. Marijuana is addictive to some extent..I get cravings for it when I run out, but nothing more than that. I've never heard of anyone actually having physical withdrawl from quitting pot. As for mushrooms and other psychadelics...you can definitely build a tolerance for them, but from what I've seen and experienced, if one does shrooms more than 2 or 3 times a week, they are more inclined to want to take a break from them rather than keep doing more. I've seen this in many people, and it's led me to believe that there is no addiction potential for mushrooms. The whole nature of addiction is that your body and mind "need" the substance to feel normal. You certainly don't take psychadelics to feel normal, you take them for the exact opposite reason.


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Offlinekontron
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Re: Addiction or habit ? [Re: Cyber]
    #3192030 - 09/28/04 05:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

pot isnt addicting to me in the sence that i need it, killing the dull boredum that surrounds everyday life is what i need. weed takes that away. makes even the most boring of situations livable. me and my g/f questioned wether we were addicted to pot, or just had too much free time to kill.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Addiction or habit ? [Re: Cyber]
    #3192040 - 09/28/04 05:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

This is just personal thought, because this is a very personally subjective question, and the answers will really reflect on ones own personally instilled morals....

I have never been "addicted" to anything.... Tobacco is supposedly (according to my pain doctor) the most addictive substance.... I smoke, but if I don't smoke, I just don't smoke.... I have never noticed a negative from not smoking.... I just enjoy doing it, so I would say for me it is a habbit....

I would personally define addiction as someone having to take a substance just to "feel normal".... Ie, Oxycontin, you take it, build up a tolerance, you take more and more to get high, and you end up getting stuck.... You start to put it as being the most important thing in your life - above family and friends.... You start lying and stealing to feed your addiction.... When you are consumed with the thought of "Oh my God, what am I gonna~ do if I can't get it tonight...!!!???"

This is what I have witnessed in the life of a few friends of mine.... One with alcohol, and one with OXY....

I think this thread is going to have a lot of different answers from all ends of the spectrum.... Some people have had first hand experiences with addiction, some have not.... I personally would not allow myself the lack of freedom of NOT taking a substance to feel normal....

This is going to be an interesting thread from all the different perspectives....

ChoW~


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Addiction or habit ? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3192175 - 09/28/04 05:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

GimpyTomCat said:
I think this thread is going to have a lot of different answers from all ends of the spectrum....  Some people have had first hand experiences with addiction, some have not....  I personally would not allow myself the lack of freedom of NOT taking a substance to feel normal.... 

This is going to be an interesting thread from all the different perspectives....

ChoW~




GimpyTomCat, That was the idea. We are all full of ideas as to what addiction is. I have already seen one person use a psychological need as a physical need.

Quote:

stefan said:
the reason they want one/need one is because not having nicotine makes them feel bad.--> physical effect.





Note that feeling bad by not getting something is stefan's defination.

Thus every teen is addicted to sex because when his girlfriend turns him down he feels bad and to fix it he goes home and masturbates.  :shocked: :penis: :stonedjerk:

This could prove to be a fun and enlightening thread  :thumbup:


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Invisiblejux
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Re: Addiction or habit ? [Re: Cyber]
    #3192533 - 09/28/04 07:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

ad?dic?tion - n.

Habitual psychological and physiological dependence on a substance or practice beyond one's voluntary control.

(emphasis mine)


--------------------


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Addiction or habit ? [Re: Cyber]
    #3194027 - 09/29/04 02:27 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

you know what's addicting? .... the Shroomery, they're making us all addicts! :smirk:


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InvisibleJohn
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Re: Addiction or habit ? [Re: Cyber]
    #3194070 - 09/29/04 02:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

heh we just went through this in odd.

if addiction is defined as something you need to feel normal or otherwise not get physically dopesick then methamphetamine and crack are not addictive drugs, millions of people just decide to make it a habit :smile:

mental cravings can be more intense than physical.
physical w/d goes away with time, you never forget how good (insert drug here) felt though.


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Addiction or habit ? [Re: stefan]
    #3194637 - 09/29/04 08:11 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

stefan said:
you know what's addicting? .... the Shroomery, they're making us all addicts! :smirk:




Now I can agree that the Shroomery is psychologically addicting! :wink:


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Offlinefreedomseeker
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Re: Addiction or habit ? [Re: Cyber]
    #3195397 - 09/29/04 01:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Degrees of addiction.

Heroine/Meth/Cocaine can get people so dependant that they'll kill or rob someone for their money or goods to pawn so they can get a fix.

Cigarettes, while I believe are both addictive AND habitual don't usually bring people to that point.

MY point??? there are degrees of addiction depending on the substance being used and/or abused.

My experience is that mushrooms are not addictive in their very essence. I've never known anyone who woke up and couldn't get through the day without their shrooms. But I have seen lives torn apart by cocaine addiction. People who would screw anyone and everyone in their lives to get their hands on some.

POT Depends on the degree of use, the biochemistry of the user and the psychology of the user IMHO. I can buy a 1/2 oz...stick it in a jar and leave it there for a month. No problem. When I feel like some, it's there. Cool.

Other people in my lives, who happen to also be ADHD (which I think is relevent because MJ helps with some of the ADHD symptoms) and tend toward more addictive/obsessive personalities won't rest until it's all ashes in the pipe. I think some of that is self medicating and some of that is...well...shit...addiction? or habit??? I'm gonna say addiction to the EXPERIENCE, rather than necessarily to the herb. Although I DO believe that MJ is a medicinal and does help many people and SHOULD be legalized!

It's the dependence issue. Where's the person's head space about it??? That's a very individual and personal thing. Nobody can really make that call but the user.

Alcohol Absolutely can be addictive...again, depending on the user. Again, I look toward the biochemistry of the individual. Do various grain or food sensitivities run in that persons gene pool??? (IE...grain allergies to corn? wheat??? rye???) If so...they will be much more predisposed than someone whos immune system can handle those fermented grains.

Tobacco Addictive AND habit. If...every morning I became obsessed with waking up and shaking the dirt out of my hiking boots...and did it for 3 monthes...let's say. And one morning I wake up and my boots are gone. Inside...I would freak! It's my PATTERN! It's my stability, if you will. It's my morning ritual.

So if I wake up, get a cup of coffee and light a smoke EVERY day...I am gonna get a tight gut when that goes away. Habit.

BUT...tobacco companies are very savvy about putting jsut the right combo of chemicals into their product to keep us 'hooked' as well. It isn't just NICOTINE! Sugars are added and tons of other things. It's an industry...just like Mc Donalds, who adds SUGAR to their burgers so we keep coming back. So...my vote is yes on tobacco for addictioin AND for habit.

Point of interest...Sugar has the same chemical composition under a microscope as does cocaine. Now isn't THAT interesting. So what about sugar addiction?????

Long post...I'm a talker...great topic!

Peace~
L


Edited by freedomseeker (09/29/04 02:04 PM)


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