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 Explorer
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Registered: 05/04/01
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Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
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 For doubters of the DMT substrate method. 
#318393 - 05/16/01 04:55 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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This is a direct quote from TIHKAL:
Some fascinating studies have been done in Germany where the metabolically active mycelium of some Psilocybe species have been administered diethyltryptamine as a potential dietry supplement. Normally, this mushroom species dutifully converts N,N-dimethyltryptamine(DMT) to Psilocin, by introducing a 4-hydroxyl group into the molecule by something that is probably called an indole 4-hydroxylase by the biochemists. You put DMT in, you get 4-hydroxy DMT out, and this is psilocin. Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in you'd get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it comes across. It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, which has not been found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not found in nature.
See! I knew I'd read it somewhere. A friend is digging out the actual papers from the German experiments for me. I'll post them up when I get them.
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egghead
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 Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: Explorer]
#318395 - 05/16/01 05:01 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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Interesting. Thanks for the info. 
* Contributor to the Free Spore Ring
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Where there's skill, there's a better way..
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DarK_SavioR
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: Explorer]
#318476 - 05/16/01 09:42 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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Awesome, pretty ironic cause some people where arguing why it probably wouldn't work and telling everyone to read tihkal and stuff... looks like they need to do a little more reading too ; ) Thats cool though, I'm gonna order some mimosa bark or something and try it as a substrate.. someone also posted a link for a page with dmt extraction or something... I think it might have been you, Explorer. Anyway, here's the addy for it if anyone else wants to check it out.
QT's DMT Extraction for Students
"Now chew em up and slam the orange juice. Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face."
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Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face.
Ralphster44 & The FSR!
All thats stated above is for humor and a lie!!
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NITRIC
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: DarK_SavioR]
#318917 - 05/16/01 09:13 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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heres a place i just purchased mimosa hostilis bark fromhttp://www.ethnobotanicals.com/PureLandCatalogMO.html
w/ all the speculatation i will try it for my self if it a waste of time o well its good for the knowledge! we will never now if someone dont try it!!!
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 dimitri211
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 2,248
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: NITRIC]
#318926 - 05/16/01 09:28 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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I am also trying the dmt substrate but I am using seeds that contain dmt and turning it into ground meal I will keep you posted
remember, behind every great fortune there is an even greater crime
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Bleuboxo
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: dimitri211]
#319048 - 05/17/01 12:40 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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awesome, im also using 50g on a casing of B+. soon friends..."the truth is out there"...Mulder....hehe
" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"
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" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"
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nononsense
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: Bleuboxo]
#319066 - 05/17/01 01:22 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think of buying myself some root bark 2, but will let it rest for a time, got alot on my mind these day's!
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Explorer
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: nononsense]
#319078 - 05/17/01 01:45 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Warning, especially to Bleuboxo, the supplement is added before the mycelium start to grow. In the German method (Gartz) 100mg pure N,N-DMT was added to the substrate ()rice flour and cowdung mix) which the psilocybe culture was then introduced to. IUsing MHRB as a casing isn't likely to affect levels of psilocin that much. You're asking too much of the poor mycelium. It has to grow ON the material, taking it up from the beginning. It won't pick up DMT from MHRB casing material that it is only in cantact with. In order to perform a water extraction on MHRB, you need to acidify the water to a PH of 4.5 - 5 and boil 3 times for a period of about an hour each time. Then, and only then, will the majority (not all) of the alkaloids from the rootbark have migrated into the aciodic solution. Mycelium will NOT extract the alkaloids from dry rootbark. I believe the only surefire method will be to perform some form of extraction on the mimosa first. This way a known amount can be added in it's freebase form, which will not introduce any new contams, and give the mycelium the chemical in "easy to digest" form.
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nononsense
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: Explorer]
#319088 - 05/17/01 02:09 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Okay let's make our own DMT tek!
Extract the DMT from MHRB (say 50 grams of root bark) with acified water (ph 4,5), by boiling the bark three times an hour long.
Should one basefy the acid liquid before using it?
Than add NaOH till ph 7 is reached.
Use 200 ml of DMT containing liquid to moisten 175 grams of rye?
Than pc 1 hour?
Than innoculate with agar or spores?
Case with 50/50+?
Peace
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Don't look at me, I didn't do it!!
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Explorer
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: nononsense]
#319122 - 05/17/01 03:37 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hmmm, I'd alter that a bit. The only way I know for sure it works is to add freebase DMT. Any other method would have to be tried out first, but the simplest extraction I can think of would be to gently boil 50g in vinegar or dilute hcl (PH1-2). Defat using Naptha (not always necessary with MHRB, always necessary on any material containing chlorophyll). Base with NaOH to PH10, as this will convert all the DMT salts to their freebase form. Extract with Naptha, Butane (which I'm still keen on trying) or dcm. Three seperate solvent phase extraction need to be done, the solvent layers combined and evaporated. This will leave almost pure N,N-DMT. This process takes up to six weeks, and I have oversimplified drastically. It took me three months to get decent yields. For more info see QT's guide. Another, much shorter method that could possibly work is this. I haven't tried it yet, but will. The only problem will be testing the end result. Coarsely grind 50g MHRB and place in a thick plastic bottle (one that won't crack when frozen, or melt in contact with butane). Pierce the lid of the bottle with a small hole (hole should fit the nozzle of the butane canister. Inject enough butane to completely cover the rootbark. gently shake for 10-20 minutes. The butane will remain as liquid while in the confines of the bottle. Then up-end the bottle and let the butane trickle out of the hole through which you injected it into a pyrex jug. The butane will begin to boil off immediately. Once all the butane (which should have a reddish tint) is in the beaker, place it in a pan of warm, not hot, water. This speeds up the evaporation process. The material in the bottom should be DMT. This should work, but there is some doubt as to whether the butane will collect the DMT alkaloids without baseing first, but I believe the only reason that baseing is necessary in the normal extraction is because the alkaloids have already been converted to salts in the acid phase, and thus need converting BACK to freebase. Yes, I'm sure this is right. I'll just have to get a friend to test the end result in a pipe, as I don't get off on DMT at all (unless I have a psillocin pre-dose, possibly). The DMT can then be added AFTER sterilisation of the substrate (the heat involved would destroy the DMT) and BEFORE innoculation. This 'Tek' isn't very technical yet, is it? I think it's time to try this out properly, but it's going to be a few weeks before I can get cracking. Bugger.
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nononsense
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: Explorer]
#319173 - 05/17/01 05:45 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Okay, but let's make it simpeler 2 most of us. Why not using the salts of the extracted MHRB. And add this 2 (sterilized mycelium)
I can't imagine DMT would be destroyed at 121?C!!
When you vaporise it temps are much higher, and you don't destroy it than either, because you inhale the vapour you get the effects required!
_________________________________________
Don't look at me, I didn't do it!!
--------------------
_________________________________________
I support the go.to/FreeSporeRing
Email me at [email]nononsense@shroomery.org[/email
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Explorer
Stranger
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: nononsense]
#319177 - 05/17/01 05:51 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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The melting point for DMT is about 57 degrees C. When you smoke it you expose it to enough heat to melt it, and then a tiny touch hotter and you get the smoke. If a flame touches it, you don't get any smoke, it is simply destroyed. I guarantee that any DMT put in a jar and exposed to 121 degrees C will not do the shrooms much good.
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DarK_SavioR
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: Explorer]
#319307 - 05/17/01 11:05 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Makes perfect sense... I'm gonna take a shot at extracting dmt from mimosa bark here in a couple weeks, gotta get up enough money to order some mimosa bark first ; ) I was thinking that you could crush up enough dmt to cover the top of each cake lightly... would that be enough dmt to make the shrooms fairly more potent? From what I understand it takes very little dmt to make the psilocybin content exceptionally higher... could anyone make an estimate on how much dmt on a 1/2 pint cake would result in say twice as potent shrooms from that cake? I guess the only good way to get this would be to grow with the dmt and see for yourself, but I don't think anyone has done that yet ; ) I'm just trying to get an estimate so I know how much mimosa to buy in order to extract enough dmt to last me a dozen cakes or so.
"Now chew em up and slam the orange juice. Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face."
--------------------
Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face.
Ralphster44 & The FSR!
All thats stated above is for humor and a lie!!
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Explorer
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/01
Posts: 24
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: DarK_SavioR]
#319319 - 05/17/01 11:25 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Gartz added 100mg DMT to each half-pint jar. Potency was estimated to be 3-4 times greater. Psilocin dose is 10mg, avg, so you're effectively adding 10 extra doses to each half pint jar. There's no reason why this couldn't go higher. The more the merrier, what the shrooms don't convert won't make it to your brain without MAO inhibition anyway.
this raises an interesting point. I have used MAOI's with shrooms before and got the resultant doubling of potency. Using MAOI's to potentiate super=shrooms... ground control to major Tom......
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Humidity
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: Explorer]
#319325 - 05/17/01 11:40 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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I am no expert in chemistry but I have enough common sense to say BE VERY CARFUL WHEN ATTEMPTING A EXTRACTION. It seem like things have been explained in a way to over simplified form. Don't blow your self up over this.
On a lighter note I can't wait to here some updates on everyones experiments. Good Luck.
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"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
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Dirtmaster
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Registered: 11/20/00
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: Explorer]
#319387 - 05/17/01 01:10 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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"Gartz added 100mg DMT to each half-pint jar. Potency was estimated to be 3-4 times greater."
do you have a link to confirm this? where did you read it?
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Explorer
Stranger
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: Dirtmaster]
#320049 - 05/18/01 09:59 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Dirtmaster. I don't keep links to everything I read on the lycaeum, but it is in the Leda bit, I think in the section on Psilocybin. As I said earlier in this discussion, I am waiting for the Gartz papers in full, when I have them you shall know.
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Explorer
Stranger
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Posts: 24
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: Humidity]
#320129 - 05/18/01 12:57 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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I didn't mean to oversimplify. You're absolutely right. Butane under pressure or in liquid form will go up like a bomb. Literally. As long as people are aware of this, though, it shouldn't be a problem. Just don't fill your lighters with butane when you're anything other than sober :-) And don't smoke while you're doing it.
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Dirtmaster
addict
Registered: 11/20/00
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: Explorer]
#320352 - 05/18/01 05:44 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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so you have a study that shows that dmt in substrate does indeed raise potency 2-3 times, but you just happen to misplace the link? yeah right
and if you've succeeded in extracting cristalline dmt, which by the way is not done by the methods listed above, you're gonna waste it by mixing it with your substrate?
i'd bet a million dollars none of you have ever extracted dmt.
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wenowknow
Stranger
Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 3
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Re: For doubters of the DMT substrate method. [Re: Dirtmaster]
#320383 - 05/18/01 06:30 PM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Dirt,
Don't be a dick. Just cuz you can't extract DMT, Doesn't mean others can't.(It's not hard BTW) And do the world a favor, GROW UP!
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