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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: Rose]
    #3186675 - 09/27/04 04:13 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

*hangs head in shame*

This just in (atleast to my knowledge), I thought this was two years ago, but it turns out they were actually running these so-called 'simulations' on the morning of september 11.

http://www.nlsi.net/hs-alc-info.htm
"John Fulton - Intelligence Networking & Analysis
On the morning of September 11th 2001, Mr. Fulton and his team at the CIA were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building. Little did they know that the scenario would come true in a dramatic way that day. Information is the most powerful tool available in the homeland security effort. At the core of every initiative currently underway to protect our country and its citizens is the challenge of getting the right information to the right people at the right time. How can so much information from around the world be captured and processed in meaningful and timely ways? Mr. Fulton shares his insights into the intelligence community, and shares a vision of how today's information systems will be developed into even better counter-terrorism tools of tomorrow.

John Fulton?s 25 years in the intelligence community has contributed to his recognition as an expert in risk & threat response analysis, scenario gaming, and strategic planning. He is on staff for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), currently serving as Chief of the Strategic War Gaming Division of the National Reconnaissance Office, and as a member of U.S. Joint Forces Command's Project Alpha - a prestigious "think tank" for advanced concepts related to such issues as homeland security. He formerly served as the mission director for our nation's satellite imagery program as well as replacing Army Astronaut Same Gemar as the Director of the National Security Space Master Plan for the U.S. Department of Defense and Intelligence Space Communities under the auspices of the Deputy UnderSecretary of Defense (Space).

His counter-terrorism and homeland security responsibilities include advising the Director Central Intelligence Staff for Homeland Security, the U.S. Marshall's Office, and collaboration with the National Security Council.

In the private sector Fulton has developed a number of patents related to positioning, "smart GPS " applications, communications, and audio/video technology. He oversees the development of public & personal safety applications of these capabilities through SafeSTAR projects, and contributes to the strategic planning and conceptual design of the SafeSTAR Homeland Security Command Center."

http://www.boston.com/news/packages/sept11/anniversary/wire_stories/0903_plane_exercise.htm


Agency planned exercise on Sept. 11 built around a plane crashing into a building

By John J. Lumpkin, Associated Press

WASHINGTON ? In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft would crash into one of its buildings. But the cause wasn't terrorism -- it was to be a simulated accident.

Officials at the Chantilly, Va.-based National Reconnaissance Office had scheduled an exercise that morning in which a small corporate jet would crash into one of the four towers at the agency's headquarters building after experiencing a mechanical failure.

The agency is about four miles from the runways of Washington Dulles International Airport.

Agency chiefs came up with the scenario to test employees' ability to respond to a disaster, said spokesman Art Haubold. No actual plane was to be involved -- to simulate the damage from the crash, some stairwells and exits were to be closed off, forcing employees to find other ways to evacuate the building.

"It was just an incredible coincidence that this happened to involve an aircraft crashing into our facility," Haubold said. "As soon as the real world events began, we canceled the exercise."

Terrorism was to play no role in the exercise, which had been planned for several months, he said.

Adding to the coincidence, American Airlines Flight 77 -- the Boeing 767 that was hijacked and crashed into the Pentagon -- took off from Dulles at 8:10 a.m. on Sept. 11, 50 minutes before the exercise was to begin. It struck the Pentagon around 9:40 a.m., killing 64 aboard the plane and 125 on the ground.

The National Reconnaissance Office operates many of the nation's spy satellites. It draws its personnel from the military and the CIA.

After the Sept. 11 attacks, most of the 3,000 people who work at agency headquarters were sent home, save for some essential personnel, Haubold said.

An announcement for an upcoming homeland security conference in Chicago first noted the exercise.

In a promotion for speaker John Fulton, a CIA officer assigned as chief of NRO's strategic gaming division, the announcement says, "On the morning of September 11th 2001, Mr. Fulton and his team ... were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building. Little did they know that the scenario would come true in a dramatic way that day."

The conference is being run by the National Law Enforcement and Security Institute.


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: ekomstop]
    #3186691 - 09/27/04 04:17 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/usterror/usterror.jsp?id=ns99991280
Autopilot could land hijacked planes

Aeroplane hijackings could be halted in progress with existing technologies, say aviation researchers, but the attempt would be risky.

"Most modern aircraft have some form of autopilot that could be re-programmed to ignore commands from a hijacker and instead take direction from the ground," says Jeff Gosling of the Institute of Transportation Studies at the University of California, Berkeley.

If a hijacking were detected in progress, being able to control a plane from the ground would be crucial, says Gosling. "The only other thing you could do is shoot the target down."

Autopilot, the system that maintains altitude, speed, and direction during flight, is fully capable of landing a plane without help from the pilot, says aviation engineering researcher Dale Oderman at Purdue University in Lafayette, Indiana. "We are already capable of flying unmanned military spy planes, so it is not far off to think that a remote system could land a commercial passenger jet."


Hijacking the fail-safe

However, Jeffrey Speyer, an aerospace engineer at the University of California, Los Angeles has qualms about the idea of remote control, saying that system could be a terrorist target itself.

He is devising a control system that would allow planes to fly close together in bird-like flocks. He says it could be adapted to override a hijacker's instructions, but "the system might be tampered with by the very people who you don't want taking over the plane."

The US Federal Aviation Administration experimented with remote landing of a commercial jet during the 1980's, says spokesperson Holly Baker at the FAA's William J. Hughes Technical Centre in Atlantic City, New Jersey. However it has not been an active topic of research in recent years.


http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/09/145289_comment.php#145399

Before 911! TV show about plane crash into WTC
by xx Friday, Sep. 06, 2002 at 3:32 AM

RealVideo: stream with RealPlayer or download RM file (2.3 mebibytes)

The lonegunman TV show aired pilot episod in March and in July 0f 2001.

Its about a government plot to remotley control a 727 into the WTC. Below is some clips from the script.
We know the government like to plant these little easter eggs, as disinformation. So when someone brings it up they can say yea, that was just a TV show! I saw that!

What do you think the chances are that they will ever reair this again?




And they told you they had never heard of such a thing.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: ekomstop]
    #3186765 - 09/27/04 04:30 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

OK, now you're just posting articles that have nothing to do with anything you have already said, and you aren't saying anything about why you are posting them.

This isn't OTD.

Please stay on topic or connect the dots again.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: Rose]
    #3186833 - 09/27/04 04:42 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

They are relavent. Prove to me with a legitimate source that they are not and I'll consider stopping.

UQ Wire: 911 Hijackers Who Lived At A US Navy Base

"Amid reports in the days after the September 11 attacks that two of the hijackers, Saeed Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi received flight training at Florida?s Pensacola Naval Air Station, a new dot has been connected which may shed more light on past revelations that 9/11 terrorists learned to fly at secure United States military bases.

Royal Saudi Air Force Major Ambarak S. Alghamdi had continued to remain in his position as a Pensacola Naval Air Station flight instructor after the 9/11 attacks, notwithstanding his Saudi Government ties - and that most of the terrorists were Saudis."


How convenient this must have been

"Passport discovery

Rescue workers sifting through the tons of rubble earlier discovered a passport belonging to one of the suspected hijackers a few blocks from where the World Trade Center's twin towers once stood."


The Case of the Missing Terrorist

"Where is alleged Moussaoui Henchman Atif Ahmad?

In a mystery that raises further questions about official accounts of the September 11 attacks, a man named as a key player in the Al Qaeda 9/11 conspiracy seems to have vanished from the face of the earth.


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: ekomstop]
    #3186864 - 09/27/04 04:51 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27888

Feds sued over anthrax documents
Legal group wonders why White House took Cipro before attacks


"In October, press reports revealed that White House staff had been on a regimen of the powerful antibiotic Cipro since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Judicial Watch wants to know why White House workers, including President Bush, began taking the drug nearly a month before anthrax was detected on Capitol Hill.

"The American people deserve a full accounting from the Bush administration, the FBI and other agencies concerning the anthrax attacks," Judicial Watch Chairman and General Counsel Larry Klayman said in a statement. "The FBI's investigation seems to have dead-ended, and frankly, that is not very reassuring given their performance with the Sept. 11 hijackers. One doesn't simply start taking a powerful antibiotic for no good reason. The American people are entitled to know what the White House staffers knew nine months ago."


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: ekomstop]
    #3186887 - 09/27/04 05:01 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

You want me to provide evidence disproving your posts, and I would love to. The problem is you are moving WAY too fast.

If you wish for this to be a thread that discusses the facts and conspiracies surriounding 9-11, let's take it one fact or conspiracy at a time.

I love this shit, I love debunking conspiracies and you are a conspiracy buff. We'd be lost without each other. It makes for fun, pollitical discussion.

But we can't have this discussion if you are not clear with your aims.

It is your thread, you started it.

Please, let us look at these things one at a time. Who knows? We may stumble upon something interesting.

I do find it odd...

There are MANY LEGITIMATE things that are fucked up about 9-11.

Why haven't you been discussing them?

It seems you are intentionally posting the dumbest things you can find, and changing the topic instead of discussing them.

Most of the conspiracies you post in here are wrong.

But, you are NOT wrong for posting them.

With a little finess, this discussion could actually become quite productive.

You have posted soo many things, I can't keep track of the point YOU are trying to make.

Slow down...

Back up a bit...

Baby steps...

Let's continue.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: ekomstop]
    #3186889 - 09/27/04 05:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

U.S. planned for attack on al-Qaida 2 days prior to Sept 11

WASHINGTON, May 16 ? President Bush was expected to sign detailed plans for a worldwide war against al-Qaida two days before Sept. 11 but did not have the chance before the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, U.S. and foreign sources told NBC News.

CIA agent 'met Bin Laden in July'

Le Figaro today claimed that a CIA agent met Osama bin Laden in a Gulf hospital as recently as last July and received "precise information" about an imminent attack on the US.

The Hijackers We Let Escape

The CIA tracked two suspected terrorists to a Qaeda summit in Malaysia in January 2000, then looked on as they re-entered America and began preparations for September 11. Inside what may be the worst intelligence failure of all. A NEWSWEEK exclusive

FBI Let Suspected Terrorist Get Away

A suspected bomber on President Bush's new list of "most wanted" terrorists was in the FBI's grasp eight years ago for allegedly playing a role in the first attack on the World Trade Center, but he was released and then allowed to leave the country, authorities acknowledged Thursday.

What really happened to flight 93?

Plane Lands In Cleveland; Bomb Feared Aboard

Reported by: 9News Staff
Web produced by: Liz Foreman
9/11/01 11:43:57 AM

A Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing Tuesday at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport due to concerns that it may have a bomb aboard, said Mayor Michael R. White.

White said the plane had been moved to a secure area of the airport, and was evacuated.

United identified the plane as Flight 93. The airline did say how many people were aboard the flight.

United said it was also "deeply concerned" about another flight, Flight 175, a Boeing 767, which was bound from Boston to Los Angeles.

On behalf of the airline CEO James Goodwin said: "The thoughts of everyone at United are with the passengers and crew of these flights. Our prayers are also with everyone on the ground who may have been involved.

"United is working with all the relevant authorities, including the FBI, to obtain further information on these flights," he said.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: Rose]
    #3186899 - 09/27/04 05:04 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

HELLO?

Quote:

Cervantes said:
You want me to provide evidence disproving your posts, and I would love to. The problem is you are moving WAY too fast.

If you wish for this to be a thread that discusses the facts and conspiracies surriounding 9-11, let's take it one fact or conspiracy at a time.

I love this shit, I love debunking conspiracies and you are a conspiracy buff. We'd be lost without each other. It makes for fun, pollitical discussion.

But we can't have this discussion if you are not clear with your aims.

It is your thread, you started it.

Please, let us look at these things one at a time. Who knows? We may stumble upon something interesting.

I do find it odd...

There are MANY LEGITIMATE things that are fucked up about 9-11.

Why haven't you been discussing them?

It seems you are intentionally posting the dumbest things you can find, and changing the topic instead of discussing them.

Most of the conspiracies you post in here are wrong.

But, you are NOT wrong for posting them.

With a little finess, this discussion could actually become quite productive.

You have posted soo many things, I can't keep track of the point YOU are trying to make.

Slow down...

Back up a bit...

Baby steps...

Let's continue.




HELLO?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: Rose]
    #3186904 - 09/27/04 05:06 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

ok ok..I'll slow down, I need a break anyway. Are you on dial up? If not, would you please take the time to watch this documentary to save us both a lot of wasted time?

Alex Jones' - Masters of Terror

yeah, I was digging around and throwing together that post before I saw yours..my appologies


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: ekomstop]
    #3186925 - 09/27/04 05:14 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I will when I can, which will be tonight... later. My gf needs TLC right now.

In the meanwhile, can you list a few things you want me to keep an eye out for during the documentary? I know... all of it... but really, what is most important and worth discussing?

You know... set it up in this thread so people without fast IP's can join in the discussion too.

This will help our discussion of Masters of Terror stay on topic.

And don't freak out, and start posting a lot of links that have nothing to do with the documentary, if people disagree with you. This is PA&L someone always disagrees.

Let's discuss this documentary a bit. For example, if I disagree with some of the points it makes, don't change the subject. Argue your side instead... then move on. Otherwise it seems like you are just trying to piss me off... even if that is not your intention.

OK... gf's getting antsy... gotta' go for now.

Thanks.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: Rose]
    #3186931 - 09/27/04 05:16 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Download it now so its ready when you get back!


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: ekomstop]
    #3186937 - 09/27/04 05:17 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I will, if you set the discussion up like I asked. :wink:

It Dl'd very fast.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (09/27/04 05:23 PM)


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: Rose]
    #3186957 - 09/27/04 05:23 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

As for what is in the documentary, it basically starts off with a short history lesson, and then goes through all kinds of news articles, television broadcasts, and basically connects the dots and paints a rather clear picture of what has happened/is actually happening on somewhat of a global scale for the viewer.

Seriously, I am very happy to hear you are willing to check this out. I hope you pay very close attention to it throughout the film, as it goes through a LOT of information in a pretty short ammount of time. It's about 2 hours long. Let us continue this discussion afterward, as you will get a much better idea of where exactly I am comming from with all of this. I think I might watch it again tonight aswell for the hell of it.

p.s., you should see if your gf would watch it too for a kind of 'real time' second opinion

Edit: FYI, this video is the follow up to another docufilm called 'The Road to Tyranny', it would probably make more sense to watch them in the appropriate order, but this is the only full video I know of that is available for free via his website..if you have soulseek or aim I can get the first one among others to you if you're interested.


Edited by ekomstop (09/27/04 09:12 PM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: ekomstop]
    #3189374 - 09/28/04 01:25 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Ok... ok... ok... I made it 70 minutes in and stopped because it is getting late... and I wanted to reply a bit before sleeping. Also, I think I am beginning to see where he's going with this video.

The video's pretty dry. A radical Liberal, Texas radio host, Alex Jones, talking to a camera and holding up articles. But after listening a while, I could see he'd at least done his homework on a lot of things.

I'll watch the rest tomorrow, first though, I want to say... Alex Jones presents a case very similar to Michael Moore's in Farenheit 9-11... although, the way he connects his dots makes Moore look like a Christian Conservative.

Also, Alex Jones choses some pretty harsh words to describe things. He makes a compelling case that the USA didn't stop the 9-11 attacks when they had plenty of chances to do so. Comparing this to Nero setting fire to Rome is a bit extreme. He makes a good case showing how America fucked up, and missed a lot of warnings, but he claims America attacked itself. I do not feel he presents a compelling case that America attacked itself. Not so far... at least.

So far, he hasn't presented much (if any) case for WTC 7 or the Teeny-tiny nukes theory you were working on.

Alex Jones does a good job of presenting what has been reported with his own spin. He is spinning and interpreting these facts, but he gets quite a lot right.

If you looked at the 9-11 comission's report, you'd see a lot of similarities.

I'm not saying everything he says is bullshit. Nor am I saying it's all true. I agree with about 2/3 of his opinions and 90% of his facts... so far.

For the most part, you are preaching to the choir, with this video. But I would not go so far as to say "America let 9-11 happen." or, "America Attacked itself.". I certainly would say, "American easily could have prevented 9-11 if they seriously looked at the evidence that was right under their noses."

I will go into more specific detail about the video after I finish watching... but I have heard most of this stuff before. That American media does a better job of covering things than you think.

Being from Canada, I think you might have a slightly warped perception of America ekom, and when you hear some of the facts presented in this case, you may think Alex Jones is suggesting more than he actually is.

If you lived here, you'd know the American government makes huge mistakes a lot more often than it attacks itself.

I think 9-11 was a huge mistake.

I think THAT is why George W. sat there for 7 minutes in a classroom after he heard America was under attack.

If you look at the evidence Alex Jones presents... not at the dots he connects... you see a clearer picture. Also, when Alex Jones only has one source, that is often pretty shaky evidence (Often times, he is quoting outdated information, or misinterpreting or overstating actual facts). When he uses multiple sources, his facts are often very sound.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (09/28/04 01:50 AM)


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: Rose]
    #3189560 - 09/28/04 01:49 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Glad to hear you are taking this seriously.  Like I said, there are about 10 other documentaries..and like he says in that particular film he is only covering about 10% of the information.  I'm serious when I say this, but he has good reason to use the 'extreme' words that he does.. If you would, please consider getting soulseek and/or aim and let me send you the video which that video is a follow up to.  After that, I'm sure things would come together even more, and if you would like any others that get even deeper into all of this, I can get them to you no problem.  9/11 is only scratching the surface..as I've been trying to imply a little bit in this thread and others, there is a big hungry beast waiting to feed directly behind it all..

Let me know what you think once you see the rest of that..again, thanks for taking the time to check this out.  :stoned:


Edited by ekomstop (09/28/04 02:53 AM)


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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: ekomstop]
    #3189626 - 09/28/04 01:56 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

One at a time, please.

Besides, I've seen enough to know I don't want to watch too many of his documentaries this week. While I agree with some of what he says, it feels a little bit like homework when I'm watching.

I think I prefer Michael Moore's films because he uses pop music and actually interviews people.

You should really check out Farenheit 9-11... it is close enough to this documentary to peak your interest, I'm sure. It's shorter too. Weather you like Moore or not, you have to admit, I watched this. :wink:

P.S. I edited my last post you may wish to check it again.


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Fiddlesticks.



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Re: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Fa [Re: Rose]
    #3189732 - 09/28/04 02:14 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I tried to edit this into my last post but I'll move it here since you replied:

Just some additional comments; as far as I know, he is not inherently proposing that America just 'attacked' itself.. what he is suggesting is that America was basically attacked under orders of the Globalists, the Elite, the Illuminati, whatever you want to call them, the individuals who are actively taking steps toward implementing an NWO.  In other words, America has been Hi-jacked, and to tell you the truth it only gets weirder and weirder..more bizzare from here on in.  Also, I wouldnt expect him to get into theory and things involving little tiny nukes and the like..this man deals with facts, and nothing that cannot be supported with tangible evidence. Also, I agree his comparison to Nero burning Rome was somewhat extreme, although I think it was just meant to provide an example of an individual in a position of extreme authority commiting acts of terror against his own people, probably to help open newbies up to the fact that this is not at all a new concept..

Also, try not to let this particular video turn you off his others.  Most of the others I would hardly call 'dry' at all..he does tons of interviews, they got music, police kicking peoples asses, explosions..basically things that you might expect right out of hollywood.  The scary part is, this is real life, not fiction.  911 the road to tyranny I think you might like moreso than this ultra fast pased rant of non stop in your face information, but as I said earlier..Masters of Terror is the only film he has available for free from his website, the others either must be purchased or obtained from somebody else.  He encourages people make copies of his films and distribute them to as many people as possible, he is not out to make any more money than he needs.

I think I will probably check out Moores movie, I'd like to see where he is comming from in all this.  I remember reading that there was a number of fallacies in it..though I guess I can't say that for certain.  What I like about alex jones is he only works with information which is confirmed, real, documented, raw, evidence.  Anybody who just disregards anything comming from his direction as nonsense and doesn't respect what he presents IMO just hasn't taken the time to try listening to him.  Again I really respect the fact that you are putting in some effort to dwell a little bit into some of this stuff.  Seems a number of people will simply say no before even considering giving it a chance.  :mushroom2:

Quote:

If you lived here, you'd know the American government makes huge mistakes a lot more often than it attacks itself.




:grin:

Hey, would you mind if I added that quote to my sig?  :lol:


Edited by ekomstop (09/28/04 04:21 PM)


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