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Offlinecurious4
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psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?!
    #3182994 - 09/26/04 05:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ok so everyone says that dried shrooms don't have psilocin and that dried shooms are almost as potent as fresh so i'm trying to figure out what the psilocin to psilocybin ration is. how much of a difference is there between a fresh dose and a dried one?


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Offlinek2nride
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: curious4]
    #3183073 - 09/26/04 05:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

As far as I know, there are a lot of different psilocybe mushrooms that are more potent when fresh by a long shot. Heres some info that might help answer some questions

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_faq.shtml#4


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Invisiblezerozero
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: curious4]
    #3183113 - 09/26/04 06:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ok,
" since psilocybin is degraded into psilocin during digestion, you are only feeling the effects of psilocin, a dephosphorylated form of psilocybin." paul stamets, pslicybin mushrooms of the world.
also psilocin levels in most studied collections have been much lower than psilocybin, except p. azures which have almost equal levels, and their substances degrade less rapidly than other types of shrooms, but in other types ( p. cubensis ) it seems the psilocin degrades much faster, but you still have the psilcybin in the shroom, which breaks down into psilocin while digesting. so dry wont be as potent as fresh on the whole, unless dealing with p. azures, but stamets also adds that there can be a ten fold difference in levels of both from on collection to the next. so there is no way to tell your ratio of p to p, unless you could get it tested at a lab, and then it would vary from patch to patch.
stamets also adds there is nothing like eating a fresh picked shroom, connecting to the earth and all that jazz.
hope that helps a little, but the book explains it better and has graphs and charts to look at.
00 :confused:


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: zerozero]
    #3185710 - 09/27/04 11:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info4.shtml

Theres your basics for the species and the percentages of both. Note Liberty caps (which people in the UK love and moreso then cubies even though most of them eat fresh [legal that way]) dont contain hardly any psilocin. Also Azures and Cyans contain half the psilocin of cubies. IIRC Stamets said that psilocin is twice as potent as psilocybin and so a rough translation can be done with a formula.

psilocybin + (psilocyn*2)=potency in psilocybin units.

The above conversion thing might not be correct exactly but its something like that I remember. Can't remember if it was from Stamets either though...maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3185817 - 09/27/04 12:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That chart is so flawed it's not funny scatmanrav! LOL Here this would be a little more realistic for cubies:

mg/g psilocybin 4.00 - 12.0
mg/g psilocin 0.00 - 1.00
mg/g baeocystin 0.00 - 0.20
I only say flawed because they no variance in the actives.

Psilocybe cyanescens:

mg/g psilocybin 3.20-16.8
mg/g psilocin 2.00-5.10
mg/g baeocystin 0.10-0.50


Edited by hyphae (09/27/04 12:28 PM)


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Offlinescape
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: hyphae]
    #3185867 - 09/27/04 12:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

nice chart hypahe, thats excellent and much more accurate than the erowid chart. !!!!! 5 for you


--------------------

EVERYTHING I SAY OR DO IS FAKE, IM A COMPULSIVE LIAR, sorry for any confusion this makes.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: scape]
    #3187176 - 09/27/04 06:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It mentions at the top that it would vary from shroom to shroom. I would imagine for comparitive speaking it would be ok to use? They also do use percentages instead of mg/g. Where did you get those numbers from? According to yours cyans have more then twice the psilocin at the very least then cubies but according to the numbers on the erowid site taken from Stamets, its the oppisite with cubies having twice the psilocin. The other numbers ranges you gave match ok with the graph, comparing cubies to cyan's anyway. Of course theres no way to say exactly how much is in there since it varies from shroom to shroom and I said that but besides not offering a range and just giving you numbers from a particular sample is it not accurate enough for home cultivators to compare species and the percentages they have? I know of no other more accurate chart for all the species, even though this one is slightly flawed..but I'd be interested in learning of others if anyone knows any.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3187403 - 09/27/04 07:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Anybody familiar with magic mushrooms knows Ps. cyans contain much more actives the cubies and that hype that Azures are stronger than Ps.cyans, Azures are not as strong as Ps.cyans a now proven fact. BTW that info was gotten from right here at the Shroomery. :wink: It reflects basically what I've seen in many other places.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: hyphae]
    #3187466 - 09/27/04 07:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yes they contain more psilocybin but according to the chart from Stamets not more psilocin. According to the chart cyans do have more actives over all, but still half the psilocin.

To much conflicting info for me to know who to believe but the point is, that shrooms contain less psilocin then psilocybin and different species contain different amounts of psilocin and therefore should hold up better if not completly to heat drying. And either way many people dry cubies without noticable potency loss using heat. Other species may or may not act as well. And it all boils down to no one really knows anything :smile:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3187662 - 09/27/04 08:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You remember that potency chart that Stamets put together years back A farce IMHO. I've seen him give questionable info over the years more than once. I go by info I've collected over the years from many sources the more the better for my database! The same goes for Stephen Peele who I also respect very much :wink: These guys are founding fathers more or less but that doesn't mean that I will agree with every word that comes out there mouth :wink: I'm just saying I will believe only from the preponderance of the evidence that I have gathered which BTW has proven them as well as I wrong in a few circumstances. :wink: No one knows everything all the time that what it really boils down to IMHO.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: hyphae]
    #3187721 - 09/27/04 08:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

True true...its just that I havn't seen of anyone actually doing test other then this now..this has been added to my own database as well though and I'll be the lookout for more tests done but so far this is only really two that I've seen and both conflict soooo...


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3188291 - 09/27/04 10:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have found a lot of material in "The Mushroom Culture" which is put out by FMRC (Florida Mycology Research Center) which I have been a member since 1991. There is an abundance of research results published here in the "TMC" The official newsletter for the Independant Mushroom Grower's network. Stephen Peele has gather and done all the work for you! :wink:


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Invisiblezerozero
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: hyphae]
    #3188584 - 09/27/04 11:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

so stamets charts are bunk?
i believe you, i just thought he was the man or something?
his books still seem very informative, but if they are wrong then...
00


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: zerozero]
    #3189228 - 09/28/04 01:04 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Not all of his charts and information. Hyphae is just talking about this particular graph having some flaws to it.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehyphae
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3191225 - 09/28/04 01:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
Not all of his charts and information. Hyphae is just talking about this particular graph having some flaws to it.


Exactly! There was one other chart a while back about potency between active species that was flawed also but later I believe he made it right. He is truely a master mycologist as well as many others out there. Thanks for straightening that out scatmanrav. :wink: I really don't understand how people can make total assumptions and get off track like that?


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Invisiblezerozero
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin!?!?!?! [Re: hyphae]
    #3191409 - 09/28/04 02:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ok, just to clarify i was just refering to the potency charts in psilocybin mushrooms of the world, and when i said his charts were bunk i meant just this chart, cause its the only chart in the book. but then i said his book"s", so i didn't mean to be switching for singular to plural, sorry for the bad english, didnt mean to get off track! and thanks for the FRMC info. :crazy2: :grin:


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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