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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
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What's REALLY going on?
    #3182638 - 09/26/04 03:35 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I am an average american citizen, with a high school education, and no formal training in physics, architecture, politics, or anything at all, yet I have discovered far more about the WTC attacks than any of the so-called "experts" will ever admit.

First of all, let's take a look at how the impact occurred. Anyone who knows anything about airplanes knows that the nose of the plane is ROUNDED, not pointy. How could a rounded object poke a hole in the side of a PROFESSIONALLY BUILT structure? The only possible explanation is a bomb was planted at the point of impact. Secondly, the "experts" claim that the fuel from the jets burned for a long time afterwards in the building, weakening the structure, and causing it to collapse. Jet fuel???? We ALL know how combustible that is, it would have obviously all exploded on impact. In order for the fire to have continued inside the building long enough to weaken its structure it would have had to have been stuffed with a slower burning substance, like wood, which we can all agree is ridiculous. It had to have been a bomb. If I can come up with all these cold hard facts by pure guesswork, surely the "experts" could have come to the same conclusion even more effectively with all their calculations and science. I think it's pretty obvious they have something to hide.

I can't believe they think we're this dumb.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: Phluck]
    #3182704 - 09/26/04 03:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

no formal training in physics, architecture, politics, or anything at all




--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleGijith
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Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3182708 - 09/26/04 03:55 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

no formal training in physics, architecture, politics, or anything at all






:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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OfflineAncalagon
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: Phluck]
    #3182740 - 09/26/04 04:02 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


First of all, let's take a look at how the impact occurred. Anyone who knows anything about airplanes knows that the nose of the plane is ROUNDED, not pointy. How could a rounded object poke a hole in the side of a PROFESSIONALLY BUILT structure?



Here's a little experiment. Take a sharp piece of silverware; a knife for instance. Dig the knife into your wrist. Bleeding? Good. Part one of your hypothesis is true. Now, take the blunt, rounded, end of the knife. Dig it into your wrist. Not bleeding? Goo--. That doesn't accurately represent what happened though. Build some kind of sling device. Have the blunt end of the knife shoot into your wrist at about 600mph. Bleeding? Good.

Speed counts.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3182766 - 09/26/04 04:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Guys, I think he was being sarcastic. The fact that he claimed to be an average American citizen when the location mentioned under his name indicates otherwise should have given it away.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineekomstop
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Registered: 03/31/01
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: Phluck]
    #3182769 - 09/26/04 04:09 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:I can't believe they think we're this dumb.




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InvisibleGijith
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3182780 - 09/26/04 04:12 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah... I guess that's a possibility... But I'd rather make fun of him.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3182792 - 09/26/04 04:15 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

No shit.

The point is, all the conspiracy theory articles I've seen are filled with more fallacies than I'd ever be able to point out. The people writing them tend to pull all kinds of "facts" about physics out of their asses. They make assumptions, and undoubtably don't check these assumptions with an actual physicist, let alone even try to consult a physics textbook.

I think the real reason this happens, is that when they read about the well researched theories, they read about them in the newspaper, or a magazine or book written for the general public. They don't go into the detail about all the calculations and math that was used to create the theories. So they come up with their ideas based on what seems to make the most sense to them, and they don't try to work them out with calculations based on the known laws of physics, because they don't have a degree in physics.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: Phluck]
    #3182808 - 09/26/04 04:22 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Well thats a sweeping generalization


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: Phluck]
    #3182824 - 09/26/04 04:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: ekomstop]
    #3182920 - 09/26/04 05:00 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Well thats a sweeping generalization

Yeah, but one that applies in a hell of a lot of situations. The "pentagon wasn't hit by a 757" theory, the "moon landing was faked" theory, to name a couple.

The real problem with conspiracy theories is that they are created, and then people search for the evidence to back them up. The thing is, you can think of a possible set of circumstances under which your theory would be possible for absolutely any wacky idea you have, as long as you're creative enough. Then, collect any evidence that even remotely backs up your theory, or at least sounds like it does.

A great example of this is the "flapping flag" evidence used to back up the theory that the moon landing was faked. The claim is that since there is no atmosphere on the moon, the flag couldn't be blown by wind, and therefore the fact that it's waving back and forth demonstrates it is in fact, located on earth.

However, the very fact that there is no atmosphere is the reason why it is moving. The flag is actually swinging from the support it's on. With low gravity, and no atmosphere, it is swinging with very little resistance. Sure, this doesn't prove that it wasn't waving in the wind, but it does show that the fact that the flag was waving isn't evidence of anything either way.

It's easy to assume that it was a very good point, but once someone who is an expert on the subject looks it over, they could quickly find the fallacy.

So when someone tells you something like, a 757 wouldn't have make a neat circular hole through the 5th ring of the pentagon, ask them what calculations, or real-world tests this is based on.

Physics often does things that go against what you would commonly assume. If you devote a lot of time to studying physics, you can begin to get better at understanding how these things work, but even then you'll make mistakes, so the only way to be sure is to run tests.

Next time someone gives you a long list of "facts" that back up their theory, make sure they're really facts.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: Phluck]
    #3182945 - 09/26/04 05:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with your sentiments fully, but realize the pentagon theory doesn't really account for all of the other unanswered questions regarding 9/11.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: ekomstop]
    #3182985 - 09/26/04 05:23 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ekomstop said:
I agree with your sentiments fully, but realize the pentagon theory doesn't really account for all of the other unanswered questions regarding 9/11.




There are unanswered questions, and then there is bullshit. Be sure you know the difference, or you may get caught calling the wrong things bullshit.

Most silly conspiracy theories have one thing in common:

They all have spooky men in black, planting bombs, killing presidents, pretending to be hijackers, filming faked moon landings, erasing memories, hiding documents... etc...

If evidence is missing from a conspiracy, many conspiracy buffs consider the lack of evidence as proof.

Thank God courts don't work that way.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineCrobih
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3182995 - 09/26/04 05:28 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Quote:


First of all, let's take a look at how the impact occurred. Anyone who knows anything about airplanes knows that the nose of the plane is ROUNDED, not pointy. How could a rounded object poke a hole in the side of a PROFESSIONALLY BUILT structure?



Here's a little experiment. Take a sharp piece of silverware; a knife for instance. Dig the knife into your wrist. Bleeding? Good. Part one of your hypothesis is true. Now, take the blunt, rounded, end of the knife. Dig it into your wrist. Not bleeding? Goo--. That doesn't accurately represent what happened though. Build some kind of sling device. Have the blunt end of the knife shoot into your wrist at about 600mph. Bleeding? Good.

Speed counts.




:pennydrop:


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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: Phluck]
    #3183024 - 09/26/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
First of all, let's take a look at how the impact occurred. Anyone who knows anything about airplanes knows that the nose of the plane is ROUNDED, not pointy. How could a rounded object poke a hole in the side of a PROFESSIONALLY BUILT structure?




The frontal section of a bullet isn't pointy either, it's rounded. The speed is what causes this to happen. When a thousand ton plane is flying at 600 miles per hour, the building has an incredible amount of force exerted upon it at the specific place where the rounded nose is hitting. This equates to a puncture. A bullet fired into a piece of metal reflects the same thing.
Quote:


The only possible explanation is a bomb was planted at the point of impact.




LOL, thats the ONLY possible explanation, coming from someone with no training in physics, architecture, or flight. Sounds good to me!
Quote:


Secondly, the "experts" claim that the fuel from the jets burned for a long time afterwards in the building, weakening the structure, and causing it to collapse. Jet fuel???? We ALL know how combustible that is, it would have obviously all exploded on impact.




Exactly. Jet fuel is COMBUSTIBLE, its not explosive. It burns, it doesn't explode. Take 2 gallons of gas, shoot a bullet through the can, then light it. DO you get an explosion, or a deflagration? The only thing that would DESTROY parts of a building, in a bomb-like fashion, would be a controlled explosion. Deflagration isn't explosion.
Quote:


In order for the fire to have continued inside the building long enough to weaken its structure it would have had to have been stuffed with a slower burning substance, like wood, which we can all agree is ridiculous. It had to have been a bomb.




*rolls eyes*. It COULDN"T have been a bomb for the very reasons that you said. The fires burned for quite a while, indicative of something that was BURNING, rather than something that released all of it's explosive power at one single microsecond.
Quote:


If I can come up with all these cold hard facts by pure guesswork,




If you are guesssing, and you aren't "educated" (no offense intended, just staating the facts), then they aren't FACTS,they are your subjective interpretation of what might have happened.
Quote:


surely the "experts" could have come to the same conclusion even more effectively with all their calculations and science.




The fact that a straight-out-of-high-school, no formal training person who doesn't know what they are tlaking about and hasn't had any of the confidental information about the wrecks to review thinks something, and the "experts" think something else, doesn't indicate to me that the high-school-education-level person is correct.
Quote:


I think it's pretty obvious they have something to hide.

I can't believe they think we're this dumb.



*tinfoilhat*


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: retread]
    #3183033 - 09/26/04 05:39 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You should read the rest of the thread before you reply next time retread.

Phluck was just kidding.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlineekomstop
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: Rose]
    #3183054 - 09/26/04 05:48 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:Thank God courts don't work that way.




Hopefully this will prove to not be the case in the Stanley Hilton lawsuit against the Bush Administration for orchestrating 9/11.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: ekomstop]
    #3183068 - 09/26/04 05:52 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I'll keep my fingers crossed.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: Phluck]
    #3183170 - 09/26/04 06:19 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
No shit.

The point is, all the conspiracy theory articles I've seen are filled with more fallacies than I'd ever be able to point out. The people writing them tend to pull all kinds of "facts" about physics out of their asses. They make assumptions, and undoubtably don't check these assumptions with an actual physicist, let alone even try to consult a physics textbook.

I think the real reason this happens, is that when they read about the well researched theories, they read about them in the newspaper, or a magazine or book written for the general public. They don't go into the detail about all the calculations and math that was used to create the theories. So they come up with their ideas based on what seems to make the most sense to them, and they don't try to work them out with calculations based on the known laws of physics, because they don't have a degree in physics.




Heh, oh, ignore my first reply :smile:


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: What's REALLY going on? [Re: Phluck]
    #3185730 - 09/27/04 11:32 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I was getting really confused about 3 sentences into your post - considering the lucidity of your previous posts I had read - when I figured out the point you were trying to make.

In addition to what you said, most conspiracy theories hinge on what they believe are anomalous features while disregarding obvious, pertinent information as anomalous to their interpretation.

There was a site I saw the other day that had some guy who had written his thesis on the typewriter that might have been able to produce the CBS documents. He got it out and came close to duplicating the forgeries and concluded that it was just another lie and coverup by the Bush "junta" and that people should not be so gullible to fall for their deceptions. Completely disregarding the fact that that had already been demonstrated possible but highly unlikely while ignoring all the other features invalidating the memos.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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