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OfflineRedstorm
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Dehydrator question......
    #3182433 - 09/26/04 02:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I was wondering at what temp. the active chemicals in Cubensis mushrooms break down. I have a dehydrator that runs at about 175 degrees fahrenheit, and I think that would be a bit too hot, but I'm not sure. Anyone got any ideas?


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: Redstorm]
    #3182441 - 09/26/04 02:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

175 is WAYY to hot.

Common opinion sez don't push 100.

Personally, i'd kill the heating element (build in a cutoff switch?)
and just use the fan part.

You're a bit out of your element..... :tongue:

If you want exact temps, lemme know,i might be able to find em.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: Redstorm]
    #3182479 - 09/26/04 02:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I have used a hot dehydrator many, many times with little to no loss in potency in comparison to fan drying or a 90F setting on the dehydrator. Mine, when measured with a thermometer, would cook the shrooms at 160F. I cooked quite a few batches with it set like that, no complaints from me, or any of my fellow adventurers...


I truely believe psilocybin is far more stable than most people believe. If it was anywhere close to unstable, I would have expected to see a marked decrease in potency, which I did not. Mushrooms hundreds of years old still have psilocybin present. Even boiling my mushrooms for extended periods of 15-30 minutes when I make my tea has little to no effect on the end product...


It will get the job done. Much better and faster than fan drying alone. If you must read into the exaggerated heat warnings, then get one you can adjust, or don't fully close it up. Use a meat thermometer to monitor temperatures...


--------------------
To give is to live...



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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: ATWAR]
    #3182484 - 09/26/04 02:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The psilocybin is actually relatively stable, in regards to heat, but psilocin breaks down with little to no pushing.....i'd think that shrooms dried under heat would have NO psilocin.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: ATWAR]
    #3182491 - 09/26/04 02:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Psilocin is another story and I believe it may contribute to the overall feel of the experience.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #3182492 - 09/26/04 02:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

100-130 is best. I've found. 175 might work ok but I feel that would cause a loss in potency..I've used mine without a problem but it only gets up to about 130. I've heard of 150 being used without problems as well from a few people. The loss in potency from low heat isn't much but the more heat you add the more loss you get and where that line is isn't really solid. I mean the actives start breaking down at a low heat (probably as low as room temp) but they do so at this temp slowly..higher heat quicker it happens. I imagine with 175 degrees they'd get dry quicker so less time getting the higher heat and in the end as long as you get them off as soon as they are dry and dont let them cook they'll be ok..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Invisiblegloom
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: Redstorm]
    #3182495 - 09/26/04 02:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

hmmm, I know it gets a little hot but, im going to go against what people say about it breaking down in 116+f. temps and use my dehydrator with heat


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #3182553 - 09/26/04 03:09 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Randolph Carter said:
The psilocybin is actually relatively stable, in regards to heat, but psilocin breaks down with little to no pushing.....i'd think that shrooms dried under heat would have NO psilocin.





I would expect shrooms dried in any manner except freeze drying to have virtually no psilocin present in them at all given its inherent instability. So, I feel it is more important to focus discussion on the primary alkaloid present after preservation... This is why there was no mention of psilocin in my post. If you are after psilocin, then eat them fresh...


--------------------
To give is to live...



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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: ATWAR]
    #3182583 - 09/26/04 03:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

What she said^^


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: ATWAR]
    #3182596 - 09/26/04 03:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Do we know how fast psilocin decomposes? Are there any links to any studies? I myself do prefer to eat them fresh :wink:


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Invisiblenoxy
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: Redstorm]
    #3182681 - 09/26/04 03:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i use a lab drying oven set at 100 f never any problem and
psilocin is still present acording to the mass spec


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: hyphae]
    #3182699 - 09/26/04 03:54 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
Do we know how fast psilocin decomposes? Are there any links to any studies? I myself do prefer to eat them fresh :wink:




Degradation of substances all have exposure times and heat levels where decomposition occurs. Think of it like a graph, more time + more heat = faster decomposition. In the case of psilocin, I can't imagine the endless variables that would cloud an accurate study. Atmospheric composition, temperature, enzymes present, and exposure times would all play a role in losing this molecule from within a mushroom... I know of no studies that have been performed in this case, or on the isolated chemical alone.


It has been speculated before that virtually all psilocin is lost shortly after picking and during the drying phase.


--------------------
To give is to live...



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OfflineCornelius
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: Redstorm]
    #3182844 - 09/26/04 04:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)



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Invisiblegloom
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: Cornelius]
    #3182916 - 09/26/04 04:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the search Cornelius. I bow before you.

edit: Oh it wasn't a search. good work on starting the thread when everyone needed it. you are my hero.


Edited by gloom (09/26/04 05:06 PM)


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Invisiblezerozero
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: gloom]
    #3183031 - 09/26/04 05:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

yo hyphae, and eveyone else,
        psliocybin mushrooms of the world, by paul stamets has a few pages that speaks about the specific amounts of psliocybin, psilocin, and baeocystin in different types of shrooms and he talks about the time and temp it takes to break the substances down, he says that in studies that p. azurescens retains the same amount of psliocybin and psliocybin after six months as they do fresh, wow. :shocked:
          also he says not to dry/cook them over 120, but i swear ive read people saying 106 is the max, i dry mine, when they are thin ( ie. mexican ), at about 90 degrees 40% humidity, they stay really potent and they get cracker dry, they seem just as potent at least 4 months after drying but i know they have lost some of their punch. stamets also points out that, " since psilocybin is degraded into psilocin during digestion, you are only feeling the effects of psilocin, a dephoshorylated form of psilocybin." interesting stuff the book is a must have f'n nice color shroom pics, picked mine up on amazon for cheap. plus the works cited pages in the book have lab studies galore, if one was so inclined they could find everything they wanted to know by finding some of those papers.  :idea:
peace 00  :thumbup:


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: zerozero]
    #3185670 - 09/27/04 11:01 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

IIRC Azures dont have much psilocin in them at all. IIRC he did say that he felt that some species would hold up better to heat (drying and cooking) because psilocybin doesnt break down but psilocin does however certain species contain less then others.

You remember 106* because that is the temp that myc dies at. That's where people got the number though, nothing to do with drying. I agree with the 120 thing..I think thats a good number to stay behind with minimal loss but I have gone higher without noticing and others have used more heat then that without noticing.

After looking it up it was semilanceata that have almost no psilocin however Azures and Cyans both have half the psilocin as cubies. People love all three of those species though with far less psilocin down to [pretty much] none in libs.

Still what it all boils down to is..eat them..did you have a nice trip? Good, then do you care how they were dried?

I have yet to see anyone post with an argument against heat who has said they've ingested shrooms dried at low heat (or cooked at a low heat) and havn't tripped off them (when theyve tried some without heat for comparision to make sure they're not just crap shrooms). Even if someone does now, it won't be as many people who have said they've tried it with heat and noticed nothing different (pretty much everyone else who uses heat).


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineCornelius
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: gloom]
    #3185852 - 09/27/04 12:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

gloom said:
Thanks for the search Cornelius. I bow before you.

edit: Oh it wasn't a search. good work on starting the thread when everyone needed it. you are my hero.




np

I bought my dehydrator before I had heard of excessive heat affecting potency. The one i have didn't have a temp control and it cot pretty damn hot. It was just sitting around not being used so I thought I might as well put it too good use...


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Dehydrator question...... [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3185872 - 09/27/04 12:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Cubensis:

mg/g psilocybin 4.00 - 12.0
mg/g psilocin 0.00 - 1.00
mg/g baeocystin 0.00 - 0.20


Psilocybe cyanescens:

mg/g psilocybin 3.20-16.8
mg/g psilocin 2.00-5.10
mg/g baeocystin 0.10-0.50


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