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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Zahid]
    #3183535 - 09/26/04 06:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

or amuse anyone.



Yet you still manage to.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Phluck]
    #3183537 - 09/26/04 07:00 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Murder, happy fun killing, whatever you want to call it, my original question still stands; is killing the bulldozer drivers going to accomplish anything? For the record, let me state that I agree 100% percent that they shouldn't be there, that they are also murderers, and it baffles me why the UN isn't doing more to stop Israel from blatantly violating international law.

It used to baffle Muslims too, now it's more like: "Ah, I see how it is."

I'm not denying that liberation was an excuse (although I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be hard to find an invasion in history where the desire to conquer another country to add to the empire was given as the reason, not liberation). I'm just pointing out that Saddam was undoubtably an evil man, and taking him out of power is a valid cause, even if it's really just a front for greed, and not actually going to help the people of Iraq in the long run.

Saddam has been gone for 18 months. For only so long can Americans justify this madness just because the previous ruler was a monster. That means nothing. Thousands of Iraqis are now dead thanks to the United States. So, lets say 7 years down the road and the U.S. is still in Iraq - you think they will still be able to tot: "But we got rid of Saddam!"

Never said it was. However, racism against jews amongst muslims (and vice versa) dates back to long before Israel existed.

Please provide some instances of racism towards Jews before Zionism.

Of course, it's always taking a life justly if it's for your own side.

All countries have ignorant rednecks. America's ignorant rednecks think that the middle east is filled with terrorists who hate freedom and Jesus, and are willing to join the military so that they can blow up a few sand niggers for themselves. The middle east's ignorant rednecks think that the US is filled with heathens who hate Allah and want to steal their land and culture. Neither of them are able to see that the world isn't so black and white. Neither side is 100% right or 100% wrong. I doubt there's a single conflict in history where one side has been 100% right, and the other 100% wrong. Once you've gotten yourself emotionally involved (by say, adopting the religion of one of the sides), it's pretty hard to look at things objectively.


Cause: America blatantly and illegally invades a country.

Effect: Its people uprise and resist.

Result: The effect is 100% in the right.


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Invisibleretread
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Zahid]
    #3184090 - 09/26/04 09:33 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
Please provide some instances of racism towards Jews before Zionism.




"The Holocaust". IF you need more links, I can probably find them?

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: retread]
    #3184102 - 09/26/04 09:36 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

*From Muslims.

Aren't you banned yet?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Zahid]
    #3184145 - 09/26/04 09:43 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

It used to baffle Muslims too, now it's more like: "Ah, I see how it is."

Okay, I'll just ask it again: If Israel uses the attacks against them to justify, and step up their own attacks, how will killing the drivers of the bulldozers help anyone?

Saddam has been gone for 18 months. For only so long can Americans justify this madness just because the previous ruler was a monster. That means nothing. Thousands of Iraqis are now dead thanks to the United States. So, lets say 7 years down the road and the U.S. is still in Iraq - you think they will still be able to tot: "But we got rid of Saddam!"

I'm not sure you're reading what I'm writing. I said that the liberation thing was a front for greedier ambitions. I said that it's not likely going to help the people of Iraq. I also said that since Saddam was evil, wanting to take him out of power is a valid cause. I know thousands of iraqis have died, and of course I don't think that in the future the US will be able to say "at least we got Saddam out", I don't think they can say that now. The thing is, this has dick all with what I'm saying.

Never said it was. However, racism against jews amongst muslims (and vice versa) dates back to long before Israel existed.

Well, after a bit of research, I'll have to admit I'm probably wrong about this one. It seems like it's a common misconception that the dispute between muslims and jews is thousands of years old. I apologize for that. However, this doesn't mean that the resentment towards jews from muslims has in many cases taken on a racist nature, often adopting western conspiracy theories about jews controlling the world's finances and whatnot.

Cause: America blatantly and illegally invades a country.

Effect: Its people uprise and resist.

Result: The effect is 100% in the right.


The question now is: Is it more ethical to fight the invading force, causing further instability and suffering for the citizens, or to form a democratic government, and mould it to your own tastes once the invaders have left, which they are willing to do... once you've estabilished a stable and democratic government.

In the movies, or in fairy tales out of the bible or koran, going out in blazes without any sort of compromise might be the most noble thing to do, but in real life, you need to think about what can be done to establish the best quality of life for the people of Iraq. Naturally, the crimes of the Bush administration need to be dealt with, but something needs to be done in order to establish peace in Iraq.

Either the American government can take responsibility, or the people of Iraq can. I'm not sure how attacking the americans is supposed to be making life better for anyone in Iraq.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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OfflineZahid
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Phluck]
    #3184197 - 09/26/04 09:55 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Okay, I'll just ask it again: If Israel uses the attacks against them to justify, and step up their own attacks, how will killing the drivers of the bulldozers help anyone?

The people who drive those bulldozers are IDF infantry men with guns. They are bulldozing the homes of innocent Palestinians. The drivers of those bulldozers deserve nothing but death.

I'm not sure you're reading what I'm writing. I said that the liberation thing was a front for greedier ambitions. I said that it's not likely going to help the people of Iraq. I also said that since Saddam was evil, wanting to take him out of power is a valid cause. I know thousands of iraqis have died, and of course I don't think that in the future the US will be able to say "at least we got Saddam out", I don't think they can say that now. The thing is, this has dick all with what I'm saying.

Saddam is no longer in power of Iraq so Saddam is a non-issue.

Well, after a bit of research, I'll have to admit I'm probably wrong about this one. It seems like it's a common misconception that the dispute between muslims and jews is thousands of years old. I apologize for that. However, this doesn't mean that the resentment towards jews from muslims has in many cases taken on a racist nature, often adopting western conspiracy theories about jews controlling the world's finances and whatnot.

The problem is that many people interpret Anti-Zionism as Anti-Semitism.

The question now is: Is it more ethical to fight the invading force, causing further instability and suffering for the citizens, or to form a democratic government, and mould it to your own tastes once the invaders have left, which they are willing to do... once you've estabilished a stable and democratic government.

Please provide proof that the U.S. is going to establish a democracy. All I'm seeing is a puppet show. Like when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, they did so in the name of giving freedom to poor Afghan peasents with 'communism'.

In the movies, or in fairy tales out of the bible or koran, going out in blazes without any sort of compromise might be the most noble thing to do, but in real life, you need to think about what can be done to establish the best quality of life for the people of Iraq. Naturally, the crimes of the Bush administration need to be dealt with, but something needs to be done in order to establish peace in Iraq.

The crimes of the Bush Administration are being dealt with - on the front lines in Iraq, by Iraqi Mujahideen who are giving their lives standing up to the world's super power. How else do you think the crimes of America are going to be dealt with?

Either the American government can take responsibility, or the people of Iraq can. I'm not sure how attacking the americans is supposed to be making life better for anyone in Iraq.

I'm not sure how submission to the enemy of Muslims is supposed to make life better for the Iraqis.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Zahid]
    #3184263 - 09/26/04 10:07 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Zahid writes:

Please provide proof that the U.S. is going to establish a democracy.

The US is not going to establish a democracy in Iraq. The Iraqis will do that for themselves in January.

I'm not sure how submission to the enemy of Muslims is supposed to make life better for the Iraqis.

Submission to the will of the Mullahs didn't made life better for those in Iran or Afghanistan, that's for sure. The Jihadists don't want the Iraqi people to elect their own leaders because they know already Iraqis prefer a secular government. They can't allow that to happen.

pinky


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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Zahid]
    #3184365 - 09/26/04 10:32 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I would've thought we had come further than this since the dark ages. But no, the same groups of people are still doing the same bullshit. You worship a different invisible man than I do, you must die. Killing leads to killing, it just goes back and forth. You'll never win. One day we will learn as a species that we are all humans, and therefor all one people.....or maybe we'll kill ourselves with weapons of mass destruction first.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Zahid]
    #3184408 - 09/26/04 10:43 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

The drivers of those bulldozers deserve nothing but death.

Again, how is this going to help anyone? Do you want peace, or do you just want to satisy vengeful animal bloodlust?

Saddam is no longer in power of Iraq so Saddam is a non-issue.

To the contrary; Saddam was a tyrant, and he is gone, will you use this as an opportunity to build Iraq into a better country than it once was, or are you going to use it as an opportunity to send it into unrest for decades to come?

The problem is that many people interpret Anti-Zionism as Anti-Semitism.

I can agree with you there, I've seen quite a few examples of that happening, but that doesn't mean that there are plenty of very real examples of anti-semitism as well. Attacks on jewish landmarks are more common now than a few years ago.

The crimes of the Bush Administration are being dealt with - on the front lines in Iraq, by Iraqi Mujahideen who are giving their lives standing up to the world's super power. How else do you think the crimes of America are going to be dealt with?

I could regularly send a parcel of my own shit to President Bush and claim that I was dealing with his crimes myself. It would do dick all to further my cause, and just make me look like a kook, plus I'd probably end up being targeted for arrest or worse.

I'm not sure how submission to the enemy of Muslims is supposed to make life better for the Iraqis.

American plan for peace: Establish a stable government.

Muslim extremist plan for peace: Keep shooting.

I'm not sure how continuing to wage war is going to help the Iraqi people


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleJohan Shultz
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Zahid]
    #3184631 - 09/26/04 11:51 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Hey, Zahid! I do not support Israeli Government, but there are millions of simple people live in Israel. Most of them like us go to work, have kids, smoke weed,have fun, and don't give a damn about your stupid religions. I just want to know if you support "death to Israel" movement?


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Phred]
    #3184888 - 09/27/04 01:04 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

The US is not going to establish a democracy in Iraq. The Iraqis will do that for themselves in January.

Quite the contrary: http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/24/iraq.main0600/index.html
These 'elections' are about as real as one of Saddam's elections. Ah yes, and who will be running against Allawi? Oh wait... just another puppet.

Submission to the will of the Mullahs didn't made life better for those in Iran or Afghanistan, that's for sure. The Jihadists don't want the Iraqi people to elect their own leaders because they know already Iraqis prefer a secular government. They can't allow that to happen.

Which Mullahs are ya talking about?  :crazy2: Names please... because all I see are the Iraqi people fighting a foreign invader at the moment.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Phluck]
    #3184914 - 09/27/04 01:10 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Again, how is this going to help anyone? Do you want peace, or do you just want to satisy vengeful animal bloodlust?

Knock out a bulldozer, that's one less bulldozer destroying Palestinian homes.

To the contrary; Saddam was a tyrant, and he is gone, will you use this as an opportunity to build Iraq into a better country than it once was, or are you going to use it as an opportunity to send it into unrest for decades to come?

Iraqis can rebuild Iraq without the puppet work of an invader that kills their own people.

I can agree with you there, I've seen quite a few examples of that happening, but that doesn't mean that there are plenty of very real examples of anti-semitism as well. Attacks on jewish landmarks are more common now than a few years ago.

The fact of the matter is the vast majority of Jews are Zionists. It's a sad fact. I don't deny there are peaceful Jews who are against the apartheid policies of Israel, but when a Mujahid is looking for Zionists, where do you think he is going to find them?

I could regularly send a parcel of my own shit to President Bush and claim that I was dealing with his crimes myself. It would do dick all to further my cause, and just make me look like a kook, plus I'd probably end up being targeted for arrest or worse.

Poor example.

American plan for peace: Establish a stable government.

Muslim extremist plan for peace: Keep shooting.

I'm not sure how continuing to wage war is going to help the Iraqi people


You don't establish peace and stability in a land by invading it. This is the excuse that every invader through history has used: "We're just bringing freedom and stability to these people." When Napolean entered Egypt, he told the Egyptians, "I'm not here to attack your religion, I am here to bring you your rights back!"  :rolleyes:


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Johan Shultz]
    #3184923 - 09/27/04 01:12 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Most Israelis happen to be Zionist Jews who stand behind their apartheidic "homeland".

There are good Jews in Israel though, like the Left wing extremists who smuggle suicide bombers into the country.  :wink:


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Zahid]
    #3185753 - 09/27/04 09:47 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Knock out a bulldozer, that's one less bulldozer destroying Palestinian homes.

Not if you actually think about it. The more Israelis die, the more funding Israel puts towards the war its waging, the more bulldozers it buys.

Iraqis can rebuild Iraq without the puppet work of an invader that kills their own people.

I haven't seen anything that demonstrates that.


The fact of the matter is the vast majority of Jews are Zionists. It's a sad fact. I don't deny there are peaceful Jews who are against the apartheid policies of Israel, but when a Mujahid is looking for Zionists, where do you think he is going to find them?

In a Jewish elementary school? (http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/05/canada/mtlschool040405)

How stupid does someone have to be to think that these kinds of cruel, senseless attacks are going to further their cause. Suicide bombings, and attacks like these are the reason why many Israelis aren't giving the viewpoints of the Palestinians serious thought.

The Israeli government uses these attacks to their advantage. The Mujahadeen are orchestrating a smear campaign against themselves.

I think this comes from a fundamental lack of understand as to how the world works today. Victory in a war is not only how well you can slaughter the enemy, that's only a small factor. The Israeli government not only attacks the people of Palestine, they do an excellent spin job; attacking an area because it is known to contain Mujahadeen leaders making arrests now and then, basically making it look like they're doing all they can to be humane about this. Of course, it IS all a front, but at the same time, this is much of the reason why they have stronger world support, because they know how to play the media properly. The Mujahadeen know absolutely nothing about this, from what I can tell. They're waging a war like it's the year 1200, which it certainly is not.

They've really got two options; learn how to wage war in the modern world, or lose.

Poor example.

Why?

You don't establish peace and stability in a land by invading it. This is the excuse that every invader through history has used: "We're just bringing freedom and stability to these people." When Napolean entered Egypt, he told the Egyptians, "I'm not here to attack your religion, I am here to bring you your rights back!"

Let me put it this way: the americans have proposed an idea as to how to establish stability. I don't know whether or not it will work, neither do you. The only way to find out would be to try it. Unless there's some alternative plan that we could try...

But, the insurgents in Iraq have not, to my knowledge, proposed any sort of plan for stability. Killing americans does not count as a plan for stability.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Phluck]
    #3187386 - 09/27/04 05:01 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Not if you actually think about it. The more Israelis die, the more funding Israel puts towards the war its waging, the more bulldozers it buys.

Ah, so by that logic because Israel has the bigger hand, Palestinians are not allowed to resist Israeli terrorism?

I haven't seen anything that demonstrates that.

I haven't seen anything that demonstrates the United States is trying to rebuild Iraq. All I see is occupation and Halliburton trucks.

In a Jewish elementary school? (http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/05/canada/mtlschool040405)

How stupid does someone have to be to think that these kinds of cruel, senseless attacks are going to further their cause. Suicide bombings, and attacks like these are the reason why many Israelis aren't giving the viewpoints of the Palestinians serious thought.

The Israeli government uses these attacks to their advantage. The Mujahadeen are orchestrating a smear campaign against themselves.

I think this comes from a fundamental lack of understand as to how the world works today. Victory in a war is not only how well you can slaughter the enemy, that's only a small factor. The Israeli government not only attacks the people of Palestine, they do an excellent spin job; attacking an area because it is known to contain Mujahadeen leaders making arrests now and then, basically making it look like they're doing all they can to be humane about this. Of course, it IS all a front, but at the same time, this is much of the reason why they have stronger world support, because they know how to play the media properly. The Mujahadeen know absolutely nothing about this, from what I can tell. They're waging a war like it's the year 1200, which it certainly is not.

They've really got two options; learn how to wage war in the modern world, or lose.


'Learn to wage a modern war'? With what army? With what military? Muslims have small arms to defend themselves. They can either submit to the enemy because it's stronger, or they can resist it with small arms. Your logic is a prevailing logic in the west that Muslims don't have a right to defend themselves. You believe that any Muslim who defends himself is nothing but a terrorist. With the little arms that Muslims have, Kalasknikovs, homemade RPGs, fediyeen belts - Muslims are going to use them to fight the super powers that feel they have a right to slaughter and maime Muslims. And as for the Zionists - in regard to the article you dished out of Canada's state-run media, Jewish children are not considered Zionists, in fact all children are considered Muslims. Hamas and Qassam has decreed this, even. It's the adult zionists in Israel who have trained with the Israeli army who have the right be killed. Oh, wait - Muslims can't defend themselves!  :rolleyes:

Why?

It's more than obvious.

Let me put it this way: the americans have proposed an idea as to how to establish stability. I don't know whether or not it will work, neither do you. The only way to find out would be to try it. Unless there's some alternative plan that we could try...

But, the insurgents in Iraq have not, to my knowledge, proposed any sort of plan for stability. Killing americans does not count as a plan for stability.


Their plan for stability will start to take form when the insurgency controls the vast majority of Iraq. That may be 9 years from now, like the Afghan war. Did you know this is only the first stage of the insurgency? The mujahideen in Iraq are still in the process of organizing the resistance. Eventually they will get their hands on the Palestinian made Qassam rockets, more bulldozers to dig trenches, etc. and it will get harder and harder for the enemy to maintain and occupy Iraq. For only so long can the U.S. tolerate this insurgency. Eventually, they will be driven out with their tail between their legs. Oh wait, Muslims aren't allowed to defend themselves!


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Edited by Zahid (09/27/04 05:07 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Zahid]
    #3187457 - 09/27/04 05:14 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:

'Learn to wage a modern war'? With what army? With what military? Muslims have small arms to defend themselves. They can either submit to the enemy because it's stronger, or they can resist it with small arms.





This is hilarious. Three (Lebanon doesn't count) Muslim nations with modern armies and oil money to burn invaded tiny Israel and GOT THEIR ASSES KICKED. They are fucking incompetent jerkoffs whose soldiers would try to milk a bull even though it had only one teat. They took their shot and got clobbered because they are dopes. So now they are splodeydopes. That is their BEST move. What wankers.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3187494 - 09/27/04 05:20 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Can't beat em, keep on fighting em.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Zahid]
    #3187562 - 09/27/04 05:33 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
Can't beat em, keep on fighting em.




Now there's a sane philosophy. Been working real well for your retarded brethren, hasn't it? Talk about a small bus culture. Way to go 'tards.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3187575 - 09/27/04 05:37 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Nice flame. Not.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Qassam Mujahideen blast two Zionist bulldozers [Re: Zahid]
    #3187839 - 09/27/04 06:33 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

'Learn to wage a modern war'? With what army? With what military?

I thought I made it pretty clear that I meant "modern war" has more to do with public relations and spin than with force.

I'm not saying that they have no right to defend themselves. I haven't said anything of the sort. My argument is that what they're doing IS NOT defending themselves. They're trying to defeat a wound by stabbing it.

And as for the Zionists - in regard to the article you dished out of Canada's state-run media, Jewish children are not considered Zionists, in fact all children are considered Muslims. Hamas and Qassam has decreed this, even.

So, are you implying that the 'state run media' (the CBC is funded, in part, by the state, but maintains complete independant control of what it broadcasts), fabricated the story? If not, who targeted the jewish school?

That may be 9 years from now, like the Afghan war.

...and what a wonderful society that resulted in. :rolleyes:

I've never said anything about muslims not being allowed to defend themselves. Fabricating stupid opinions and attributing them to your opponent is a pretty cheap way to debate.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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