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Offlinedest11
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Shroomery Philosophers Demographic
    #3180301 - 09/25/04 09:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I was just wondering what kind of minds visit the spirituality and philosophy forum. Give a brief description of your philosophical/spiritual inspirations such as: Belief in God, what you have studied, and the ideas that motivate you. Are the words you type here the manifestation of a chemical ridden mind? Are you idealist, or materialist? Are ethics more relative, or more absolute? Free will, or determinism? Beliefs in human nature? ect... Also, how long have you studied and how? Does any fellow shroomerite have a Phd?


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: dest11]
    #3180322 - 09/25/04 09:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I was just wondering what kind of minds visit the spirituality and philosophy forum.

I theorize that most of the Shroomery's S&P Philosophers are introverts.

Introverts are usually known for their deeply analytical and philisophical thinking/behaviors/tendencies, for richness of experience rather than muchness, like our extroverted counterparts.

As to your following questions, you'll have to solve the mystery via observation... :wink:



--------------------
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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: dest11]
    #3180361 - 09/25/04 09:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I've taken a couple college courses in philosophy(intro, existentialism, and ethics), though my beliefs haven't really been influenced much by them, except to the extent that it's helped me think more logically. I believe in God in the pantheistic sense of the word, because I experienced such a presence on shrooms. I'm a bit confused about the idealism vs. materialism question, because I don't consider myself to be either of those. As far as ethics go, I wouldn't go as far as to say that they are absolute, but I lean more in that direction than I do towards relativism. I believe that free will can be attained, but that it is not automatic(in other words, one must become aware of deterministic factors which influence them before they can overcome them). I don't really believe there is a "human nature," only a human condition.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: dest11]
    #3180449 - 09/25/04 10:14 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think you can generalize this forum.


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Agent 727
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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: silversoul7]
    #3180488 - 09/25/04 10:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Actually...what SS7 said  :stoned:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: dest11]
    #3180607 - 09/25/04 11:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Belief in God

Basically agnostic, though I lean towards the believing side I reject all beleifs and try to hold theories instead. My theory is that a Creator does exist, though I doubt any human has anything close to an accurate concept of what the Creator is.

what you have studied

Mostly the sciences, though I have dabbled in many topics. I am self-taught for the most part, school was always too boring for me so I learned to read a lot. I studied computer science in university.

the ideas that motivate you

I am motivated by the hope that there is Truth out there, which I can learn through thought and interaction with the world around me.

Are the words you type here the manifestation of a chemical ridden mind?

Possibly, though when they are it is still my chemical-ridden mind :wink:

Are you idealist, or materialist?

Conceptualist.

Are ethics more relative, or more absolute?

Absolute from a human standpoint: all humans should agree upon a basic morality if they wish to live in contact with each otehr.

Free will, or determinism?

Something in between. Obviously true "freedom" is not possible, there are restrictions on what can be done and what can happen. I don't think our bodies can break the laws of physics, yet obviously there is some level of choice involved. I think our choices can ONLY be reactionary in nature...there is no such thing as a spontaneous choice. Thus we are not deterministic but not truely free.

Beliefs in human nature?

I think it (human nature) is mostly a learned response and dependant on our childhood.

how long have you studied and how?

Most of my life. I have had an active interest in physics as far back as I can remember. I was intensely interested in physical phenomena as a young child, and remember forming "ideas" about things early on. School was mostly boring, so I learned to read a lot. I like to approach new concepts from as many different angles as possible, so it takes me a relatively long time to learn specifics but I prefer to get an overal picture of the relating concepts as well.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: dest11]
    #3180812 - 09/25/04 11:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm kinda the S&P pretty boy.. Often paraded around as the "most enlightened" here. I'm never wrong, thanks to a little nugget of Chinese wisdom I'm willing to impart:

"those who fight well never lose, those who lose well never perish"

I atribute my keen sense of logic (and smell) to my choice of video games when I was young. Where my habits differed is I stuck to the simple stuff. Most people around me really took to super mario bros not taking into account its long-term effects. All that looping around "princess is in another castle" talk and then when you get the princess all you do is another round.. psychological conditioning for treadmill jobs in futuristic companies run by the Japanese. I stuck with pacman, which to me is still the most concise philosophical exploration of life in a free-market capitalist economy ever coded into a video game.

Then came super bomberman and the multitap for SNES. Where pacman dealt with what I'd call "pure" labratory-grade synthetic conflict, multiplayer bomberman's multitap became a nexus for the human element, allowing the expression of primordial animal urges in a contained virtual environment unlike the world had ever seen.

Which is all very interesting


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: dest11]
    #3181331 - 09/26/04 02:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

First, lmao at Mix, again.

Second, I would tend to agree with SS7.

But to answer your questions:

Quote:

dest11 said:
Belief in God




Yes.

Quote:

what you have studied




If in respect to whether I have a belief in God...Bible studies, church, college classes.  This forum.  :grin:

Quote:

the ideas that motivate you.




That somehow we are all connnected, that there are "signs" occurring all around us that will point us in the direction that our lives should take, etc. 

Quote:

Are the words you type here the manifestation of a chemical ridden mind?




Haven't used drugs in 20 years.  My mind can't tolerate drugs any more, not even aspirin.  :grin:

Quote:

Are you idealist, or materialist?




Idealist.

Quote:

Are ethics more relative, or more absolute?




Absolute. 

Quote:

Free will, or determinism?




Free will to follow the destiny that has been written for us. 

Quote:

Beliefs in human nature? ect...




I have been studying human nature for about 5 years now, since I became an attorney.  My conclusion thus far is that people are probably inherently bad, and it was a good thing that Jesus came to die for us bad boys and girls.  Basically, I am starting to realize that people suck, but my true optimistic nature precludes me from abandoning the human race.

Quote:

Also, how long have you studied and how? Does any fellow shroomerite have a Phd?




I attended college for approximately 13 years.  I have a B.A. and a J.D.  I have a certificate in mediation.  (Markos' credentials are much more impressive than mine.  :grin: )


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineSource
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3181393 - 09/26/04 02:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Mix,

That was brilliantly hillarious!

Me?

Started off a hedonist, moved into organized religion (Christianity), used science as a way of disproving the organized religion so I could be free of it, then moved on to self inquiry (Vendanta, Zen) which brings us to where I am now...the dark night of the soul. Still wating for dawn.

The other questions about God and free will...eh...there are no answers to those questions which will be completely true. They are just paradoxes that lead the mind on a wild goose chase, there is no truth to be found in them.

Ideas that motivate me - Liberation, Understanding, Truth, Beauty, Love and Destruction.


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What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: dest11]
    #3181484 - 09/26/04 02:38 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I have a degree in computer programming. I had 3 years of college in the field of psychology (but no degree) prior to this. I am interested in shamanism and the religious practices of primitive peoples everywhere. I believe in the notion of a God or creator, but I feel many of the organized religions promote too much dogma, and many people tend to mistake the dogma for the core religious beliefs of that religion. As a young man (19) I was an atheist, but changed my mind after ingesting 12 hits of reasonably potent acid.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: dest11]
    #3181885 - 09/26/04 05:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Belief in God

No thanks.
I've come to believe basically two things about god.
1. it doesn't matter to me one whit if there is or is not any big guy, I live how I live because -I- believe it to be the good way to live.
2. if I'm wrong I'll either clap him on the shoulder when I die, laugh, and laugh about being wrong, or if I'm let's say sent to hell though I'm a far more kind and generous and helpful person than most who profess deep belief in religion I'd much rather exist there than in the company of some petty and jealous superbeing who would refuse a good afterlife to one who lived a good life simply because of a lack of belief in him. that's childish, and I've no time for toddler's tempers.

what you have studied,

I've read a good number of books by old dead white guys. 19th century europeans are the win.. and more nietzsche than anyone has a right to read -- the cover on my big thick book long ago fell off.
also study people.. in that i argue with myself about the actions and motivations of others till a reasonable answer is found. if you consider enough variables, usually i've found the correct answer is in fact found.

and the ideas that motivate you.

Live happy, live kindly, live realistically, and only depend on what you can grab onto with your own hands. no mistakes, that way.

Are the words you type here the manifestation of a chemical ridden mind?

Only sometimes, but not in the past two months.. unless scotch is a chemical. oops.

Are you idealist, or materialist? Are ethics more relative, or more absolute?

I'd say idealist but I'm sure many here would disagree with me, however that is only because they hold different ideals.
Believe me, I'm a firm.. not believer, let's say wisher?.. in an ideal world without hate and suffering. I've just come to accept such a thing is beyond us, and accept that even a battle already lost is still worth fighting. Not everyone will be a good person, but that does not matter. all you can hope for is for as many to be as good as they will be, even if they must be tricked into changing their behaviour.
Ethics are definately an absolute. An argument unto itself, however I'll just say that no matter what you believe, spreading misery is a bad thing if only for the selfish reason that misery may be spread onto you later.

Free will, or determinism?

Free will.. to an extent.
Thus far I've had very, very good results with simply reasoning out what certain situations will cause, and what has caused certain situations, by examining all evidence I can unearth.. which is fairly deterministic. It's not always the case, but usually you get to where you are by moving down a path, and you can either backtrack down that path to discover past events or, by peering back and then reasoning where it leads and what turns might be made, what things may happen in the future.

Beliefs in human nature?

Humans are animals and act as such. Just a matter of understanding what sort of animals we are.

ect... Also, how long have you studied and how? Does any fellow shroomerite have a Phd?

I started reading those old dead europeans about.. agh. 6 years ago now or so. started thinking about such things long before that, however. And even before that -- about 15 years ago now -- I decided to stop going to church because I decided it had no purpose for me.. was 8 at the time. Haven't stepped foot inside since then excepting for weddings.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: dest11]
    #3181975 - 09/26/04 07:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

After my life experiences, I could never eulogy myself into a demographic.

Hey man, sometimes the truth doesn't come in perfect sheets of paper that you can fold up and carry around in your pocket.


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: silversoul7]
    #3181993 - 09/26/04 07:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The extent of my bio that I'm willing to reveal publicly in this forum is already in my profile; anything more you'll have to deduce from my ramblings. :-)

Speaking of ramblings, I have some ramblings and and question for ss7:

I believe in God in the pantheistic sense of the word, because I experienced such a presence on shrooms.

I too have experienced the presence of God and on more than one occasion. Each time was a truly wonderful delusion that lasted for several minutes. Unfortunately, each time was at the peak of a wildly intense mushroom trip in the middle of a nitrous-oxide+oxygen balloon. During the episode, my belief was complete.

Unfortunately, each time as things wore off and my ability to think and analyze what had happened returned, I was struck by the thought that God always waits until I'm so clobbered by drugs that I can't even remember where I am to show himself. Always! Something's wrong with this picture.

If God has some unknown reason for not overtly showing himself to the skeptical and thus instantly destroying any argument against belief in him, then why does he show himself to people so inebriated that they can't tell reality from fantasy at the time?

Truth can withstand scrutiny. If God can show himself during a trip, then why not during sobriety when critical thinking skills are available to the observer.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/26/04 07:39 AM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: Diploid]
    #3182122 - 09/26/04 11:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
The extent of my bio that I'm willing to reveal publicly in this forum is already in my profile; anything more you'll have to deduce from my ramblings. :-)

Speaking of ramblings, I have some ramblings and and question for ss7:

I believe in God in the pantheistic sense of the word, because I experienced such a presence on shrooms.

I too have experienced the presence of God and on more than one occasion. Each time was a truly wonderful delusion that lasted for several minutes. Unfortunately, each time was at the peak of a wildly intense mushroom trip in the middle of a nitrous-oxide+oxygen balloon. During the episode, my belief was complete.

Unfortunately, each time as things wore off and my ability to think and analyze what had happened returned, I was struck by the thought that God always waits until I'm so clobbered by drugs that I can't even remember where I am to show himself. Always! Something's wrong with this picture.

If God has some unknown reason for not overtly showing himself to the skeptical and thus instantly destroying any argument against belief in him, then why does he show himself to people so inebriated that they can't tell reality from fantasy at the time?

Truth can withstand scrutiny. If God can show himself during a trip, then why not during sobriety when critical thinking skills are available to the observer.



You seem to be thinking of God in terms of a personal entity, which is not the kind of God I'm talking about. For me, this presence was more of an ultimate reality and an all-encompassing consciousness to which we are all connected than some invisible being. And the fact is that I do feel this presence after the trip wears off. I feel it right now. I feel it as I'm driving down the freeway. It's everywhere. I may not feel it as strongly as I do when I'm tripping, but I'm aware of it constantly. It is the reality beyond the illusion in which we live.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: Diploid]
    #3182176 - 09/26/04 12:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Diploid, ego-shattering hallucinogens are not a prerequisite for experiencing this non-mind identified state of consciousness, which is what happened [ego-shatter] in these intense psilocybin trips that occured, and it is only through this that the reality of connectedness with Being can be felt. The mere finite egoic-mind cannot truly encapsulate that which is beyond the mind. It can only be felt..
Simple as that.
The realization of the enervating obstacle in mind-identification frees one from amongst other things, being psychologically stuck in the constant past or future, and becoming fully present into the eternal and timeless Now, opens oneself up to this reality. This is why I have a deep respect and admiration for psilocybes, because that is exactly what they do..bitch-slaps the egoic-mind back in its place... and truly forces Being into the vibrantly alive dimension of the Now.

Don?t get stuck on the level of words. A word is no more than a means to an end. It?s an abstraction. Not unlike a signpost, it points beyond itself. The word honey isn?t honey. You can study and talk about honey for as long as you like, but you won?t really know it until you taste it. After you have tasted it, the word becomes less important to you. You won?t be attached to it anymore. Similarly, you can talk or think about God continuously for the rest of your life, but does that mean you know or have even glimpsed the reality to which the word points? It really is no more than an obsessive attachment to a signpost, a mental idol.

The reverse also applies: If, for whatever reason, you disliked the word honey, that might prevent you from ever tasting it. If you have a strong aversion to the word God, which is a negative form of attachment, you may be denying not just the word but also the reality to which it points. You would be cutting yourself off from the possibility of experiencing that reality. All this is, of course, intrinsically connected with being identified with your mind.

So, if a word doesn?t work for you anymore, then drop it and replace it with one that does work. If you don?t like the word God, then replace it with consciousness, or Being. That may get you closer to the truth, the reality behind the word, than a long-misused word like God, and leaves little room for misconception or misinterpretation.






--------------------
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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: dest11]
    #3182215 - 09/26/04 12:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dest11 said:
I was just wondering what kind of minds visit the spirituality and philosophy forum. Give a brief description of your philosophical/spiritual inspirations such as:

Belief in God:




Yep, I feel God is more than what Christians see it as.

Quote:

what you have studied, and the ideas that motivate you.




www.psipog.com

I took an intro to philo class which changed my life. Before that I was a natural philosopher, studying philosophy just revolutionized my life.

Quote:

Are the words you type here the manifestation of a chemical ridden mind?




If you mean that much of my thoughts come from alterred states I would say yes. I do most of my spiritual exploring on drugs, although I do most of my philosophy when I am sober afterwards. It is always cool to see a ghost or perform something while strait.

Quote:

Are you idealist, or materialist?




An idealist stuck in a materialist world.

Quote:

Are ethics more relative, or more absolute?




Ethics are as real as you make them. They are only real through our look at what we find desirable and undesirable.


Quote:

Free will, or determinism?




Both, I lean toward free will more.

Quote:

Beliefs in human nature?




My oppintion on human nature is that it's all too caught up in itself. We are neverendingly like moths batting blindly against a wall. Sometimes we find a gap and tell everyone else, sometimes we don't.

I try to love people, but it takes effort for many.

Quote:

ect... Also, how long have you studied and how? Does any fellow shroomerite have a Phd?




Some have PhD's, I don't. I have studied very little at a college.


--------------------
Agent 727
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Offlinedeff
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: dest11]
    #3182298 - 09/26/04 01:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with Skorpivo that most here probably are introverts, as I know I myself am, and it is often a quality of those who spend more time thinking and analyzing.

Also, I think another common thing, hence the name of this site, is the interest in psychotropic plants/fungi that many of us share, and that evolved many of our ideas about s&p issues.

Of course, you can never generalize everyone, and I'm sure many here don't fit either of these two categories.

The other questions I think vary a lot more in responses, as evident by the display of unique posts and ideas among different members.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3182670 - 09/26/04 03:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The realization of the enervating obstacle in mind-identification frees one from amongst other things, being psychologically stuck in the constant past or future, and becoming fully present into the eternal and timeless Now, opens oneself up to this reality. This is why I have a deep respect and admiration for psilocybes, because that is exactly what they do..bitch-slaps the egoic-mind back in its place... and truly forces Being into the vibrantly alive dimension of the Now.

That's a beautiful description. I can only hope you're right. In the absence of evidence to support it, though, and since by definition that evidence cannot be found to my satisfaction, I remain convinced that you might be right... or maybe not.

And I'm back where I started. :confused:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: dest11]
    #3182954 - 09/26/04 05:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Welcome to the fray Dest! Here's a party hat!  :birthday:

I personally like to play with energy. I'm most interested in the source that sets things into creative motion and manifestation.

I like to study patterns and what makes people tick which gives me reflective insight into myself which I see as the micor of the macro, the ONE individuized and allowed to think independently from others.

I like to observe, stir the pot, add ingredients, and turn up the heat. How high can I stand it without combusting??? I like to see how high others can stand it before they start panicking. Like when water molecules become heated and turn into steam and start to rise. The panick comes from having no ground to stand on and an irational fear of falling. It gives me insight into where human irrational fears lie.

I wish to overcome all inherent programming of irrational fears.

I'm interested in what empowers us as individuals, creatively speaking.

I basically stand on nothing save for the idea that the only thing that never changes is change and as a few poitned out here, even the nature of change changes.

Because of that beleif, I feel that anything one stands on or clings to, is bound to crumble and fade away over time. I want to live empowered in that place, where I need not stand on or cling to a thing, to feel safe and secure, save only to accomplish a particular goal of the moent and off I go again. I think of myself as swimming or flying in a sea of consciousness which has no gravtitational force other then what I give weight to for a time.

When I need to lean on something just to rest, I know I can just "LET GO" of what is tiring me and free float, there is no fear of falling because there is no up or down without gravity (what we put value in), I will always be safe.

My mind and heart like to be inspired by new thoughts and I enjoy sharing the essense of creative inspiration.

I'm a game player and find it difficult to sustain seriousness for very long. The cosmic joke is just everywhere to be found in the seriousness of life and soon enough, I am laughing at it again.

I ask "what if" questions to myself dozens of times a day. I don't just enjoy day dreaming about what may be possible, I enjoy making dreams realities.

I can't stand the idea of boundaries and limitations or being told what I can't do and abhor the idea of impossibility. That makes me a pain in the ass by most peoples standards.

I beleive where there is a will there is way. Non the less, I realise I have them and live within them but I push them back as often as I can.

I love the richness and depth of the material world and yet am an idealist dreamer and conceptualist.

I prefer harmonic diversity over the discord of divisions. I like to experience the world in complimentary contrasts, over dual opossites. I like to play with how ever many different perspectives I can see from.

I am wondering why you asked this question instead of just reading members here to get your answers. No matter what we say here and elsewhere, you will form your own opinions of us. Again, welcome to the fray.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineStinky
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Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 61
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Shroomery Philosophers Demographic [Re: dest11]
    #3183980 - 09/26/04 11:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I am introverted... Agnostic with a chunk of pragmatism, little bit nihlism, and a pinch of Buddhism.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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