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OfflinePedM
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Does anyone else see what I'm seeing?
    #3167873 - 09/23/04 01:21 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

This forum has become far too divided. We have our own left and right wing parties here, and the battles between them are as petty as the mudslinging wars we see along the campaign trail. Some people believe in objectivity and no subjectivity, others believe in subjectivity and no objectivity. Both are wrong because both sides attach themselves to their position.

There are far too many active threads which put up this noble face: "deconstructing the ignorance", as though somebody on the phone with the Truth Hotline believes that they are swooping in to rescue us from what have been deemed "unworthy" ideas. It is nothing more than egotism. There is such a font of egotism here; so much insecurity. There is no reason (aside from bolstering one's own delusions of superiority) to set aside time for composing a post which serves no purpose but to divide other people's ideas into the categories of "right" or "wrong". It is pointless noise which contributes not to discussion but to the atmosphere of competitiveness and irritation which is growing within this once flourishing S&P community.

We are judging eachother. We are competing with one another. Please, stop this.

There are a lot of young people here with a lot of silly, half-formed ideas or completely non-sensical ideas. Fine. It is never necessary to go into specifics because there is nothing else for us to expect: this is a community aimed at the drug-using youth population. It is almost inherent in drug-using youth culture to be so eager on the matter of spirituality and philosophy that there is a loosened grip on reason. It is escapism, flight from self, from reality; it's part of growing up. It is not bad; it is not to be ridiculed; it is not to be judged or frowned upon. In fact, frowning on others is the same escpasim, the same flight from reality. Not only is it harmful to criticize other people for their ideas, it is hypocritical.

Everyone is at different stages of intellectual development, spiritual development, social development, personal development. In a few years our little intellectual hierarchy will be so jumbled up by our varying levels of progress that our angry debates will no longer matter. There is no reason to fight, no reason to judge, no reason to say hurtful things, or to phrase our comments with a tone of smug, self-righteous sarcasm or ridicule.

Let's just stop posturing like animals at get back to dicovering our humanity.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Ped]
    #3167907 - 09/23/04 01:27 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I totally agree Ped.There is way too much hatred and too large of a divide.One should disagree with something if they do but not totally bag/rip on another culture or religion.

We also need to accept others beliefs.Debate is healthy but trying to convert others isnt and is invasive.

We should all focus on Unity/love for our neighbors. :heart:


--------------------
Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Ped]
    #3167922 - 09/23/04 01:31 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Difference of opinion is good.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Ped]
    #3167975 - 09/23/04 01:42 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't mind divided camps. I DO mind people putting down the camps to which they don't belong. But all in all, this is a good place to hang out.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Ped]
    #3168201 - 09/23/04 02:28 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

On the internet one must make one's positions much more strongly to convey the true, lesser extent of them.

If you don't go too far you'll probably be mistaken as not going anywhere, basically :wink:


That, and I know which place you'd put me in.. and well, I've known starry-eyed idealists and dreamers.  Eventually there came a day that they let themselves be shat upon because they either didn't have their eyes open, or if they did they were looking to the side and didn't see the anus in front of them.
And I'm a firm believer in people not letting others take advantage of them.  A large part of that is realistically making a judgement of others -- yes, do not judge, but not judging does not mean unconditional trust..  you can reserve total devotion and trust to someone without betraying some sort of universal oneness of humanity.
A schizm with one's comfortable frame of mind only leads to a stronger view on life.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Ped]
    #3168774 - 09/23/04 04:46 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

How can you not see it? The thing is some people love it and thrive in divided environments. It's allowed here so they have a right to experience it here.

Others of us thrive in diverse ones and there is a difference.

Right now division AND diversity is co-existing here. I personally feel that people who beleive they are learning from right and wrong debates are actually just learning from the overall diversity of views.

This diversity can come out during an I'm right and your wrong debate, however, we can share views, opinions, experiences and facts without getting into I am right and you are wrong debates.

if you think someone is wrong, uninformed or ignorant, why can't you just provide information for them to consider without the I am right you are wrong crap and leave it at that?????????????

This baloohey that beliefs and perspectuive have to be proved when challenged is poposterous. Anyone who shares an opinion, perspective or experience in the spirit of sharing is not forcing anyone to be obliged to beleive it.

You can ask someone to better explain themselves if you are looking to understand them and give their views further consideration.

This is different from asking them to put up more just so you have more to tear down.

We don't have to be a blah and boring one, we can be vastly different multiples of the one without having to split ourselves into two. Alas, that's how it is here for now. I can hope to inspiring change, I never wish to or would care to force it to suit me.

I started noticing how negative I was allowing myself to become while reading here a lot. There is stuff that just doesn't feel good for me to resonate with. Unfortunately you have to read through that to get to the cool stuff.

Or maybe not. I decided to start putting people on user ignore. I know people have told me that everyone here has value and purpose. I told myself that too for a time. Then I got to thinking, I have cleaning liquids under my kitchen sink that have value and purpose, but ingesting them would be toxic and hazardous to my being.

Just because all liquids have value and purpose in this world does not mean that they are all healthy to ingest and consume. The next time I notice a writer here who is consistantly spewing toxicity and going for the jugular, I am going straight for the user ignore button.

People might say that "if you can't accept others then that means you don't accept yourself like that is a bad thing "I see that now as new age babble". I came to realise that there are behaviors that I do not accept from myself, like spewing my negativity unto others or going for blood.  Your right I don't accept that of myself because I don't see it as being a good thing for me or anyone in my path.

I accept others rights to do it and mine to ignore it.

I came to realise that I have standards of self love and respect and I hadn't been honoring them by allowing myself to get involved with people who have no love or respect for others.

It's no fun to have people challenge you into debates "fights" egging you on to prove how tough you are for the sole purpose of tearing any further bit they hope to coax out of you into shreds. I personally don't enjoy that.

I do enjoy co-operative environments and I really enjoy this forum overall and hope that I have been a positive contributer for the most part.

Since I have put just 3 people on user ignore, coming here to read has been wonderful. I'm starting to feel like my old self again, not having realised how far I let myself sink and get stuck in the muck of it.

Sure, in fantasy land, I can tolerate anyone with a smile for long durations, but in my human waking experiential reality, tolerating takes a toll, its exhausting. 

The final beauty is that I can honor and respect the free will of others to choose to be whatever they want to be here that they deem good for themselves while also honoring and respecting my free will to choose what is right and good for me and that is using the user ignore button. Thats what I call a win win.

This way, in my experience at the shroomery, I can get and give what I come here for without being provoked into someone elses agenda to wage war.

It's been a very self empowering thing for me to do.

BTW, you can understand someone and be forgiving and have compassion for them while not accepting to be treated like poo. Turn the other cheak does not mean to offer up more body parts to be beat senseless. In the time the expression was used and written, it meant to turn and walk away.

That button works just the same for allowing you to walk away from just a few who spoil the bunch. If you love this place over all and are just sick of a few who spoil it, you don't have to leave, just use the button.

I know that some of you may say, it's not that bad, whats the big deal, you are being oversensitive and you got one thing right, some of us here are sensitives and refuse to where armor because some of us are not at war.

I'd rather be a lova not a fighta










  :grin: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Ped]
    #3168816 - 09/23/04 05:18 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I think you got it wrong Ped. Subjectivity and acceptance of everything can not be wrong. Narrow minded are the people who are stuck to their beliefs and argue for nothing just for the sake of arguing. It is nice arguing. You get to exchange ideas. Your own ideas grow more. But I can't stand narrow-mided people.


--------------------


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Ped]
    #3168824 - 09/23/04 05:24 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i think you are putting way too much emphasis on this forum.

yes I love S&P to death, I read here constantly, and I am always amazed at the different point of views that arise.

when people come in saying what is what, I really enjoy looking at their point of view.  even when I don't agree with it :wink:

don't you see, it's not about being right or wrong, just the sharing of ideas.  you have an idea in your head in the way the members "should" act towards wone another, when you might see that it could be jsut another ego game you're playing with yourself.

durign the busiest hours, S&P will have 15-20 people, that's a whole lot more than when I first started reading (3 years ago).

we can share ideas, and we can debate them.

don't you think everyone has something valuable to bring to the table regardless of how they present it?

there are 6 billion minds out there, each of them unique, and each convey their mesage differently, and that to me is beautiful.

so cheer up, and read the knowledge that people put forth.  :sun:

cause when you think about it, when we write something, it's because we care enough to.  :heart:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: kaiowas]
    #3169501 - 09/23/04 12:29 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

What I'm saying, kaiowas, is that presentation does matter. When there is posturing going on, arguing and not debating, there is no sharing of ideas happening. It is impossible to trade ideas when there is too much attachment to one's own ideas. When people become sarcastic, readers close off and withdraw from actual discussion. Although they might still be participating in debate, openness is lost and progress does not happen. Instead of adopting new ways of thinking, people become further entrenched in their own. Sharing is traded for competition. It is not productive.

>> we can share ideas, and we can debate them.

But we are beginning to forfeit that wonderful luxury. When we are caught up in competing with one another, we cannot share ideas, and we cannot debate them. When there is anger, there is no exchange. Relationships between people stop.


>> don't you think everyone has something valuable to bring to the table regardless of how they present it?

Everyone has something valuable to contribute. But when pride manifests itself in the form of sarcasm and name-calling, it is like smoke that makes the value of someone's contribution difficult to find.


>> there are 6 billion minds out there, each of them unique, and each convey their mesage differently, and that to me is beautiful

It is so easy to get lost in statements like this, to forget their meaning but continue overlooking problems which need to be addressed. Some of those six billion minds convey their message -- their anger, their hatred -- with bombs and bullets. People are getting hurt by anger and hatred, and it is painful to see the same anger and hatred arriving here at this smaller scale community, creating smaller scale sufferings. Words are used as bullets and ideas used as bombs.

But perhaps you are right in saying that I'm taking a simple forum way too seriously. Maybe you're right in suggesting that I'm attached to the expectations I have of this community. But maybe I'm just trying to offer an alternative to strife and conflict.


Shroomerous,

>> Subjectivity and acceptance of everything can not be wrong.

Of course it can. When people argue the subjectivity of things yet refuse to dignify opposing views, people are defending a standpoint without understanding it's meaning. It is foolish to argue the subjectivity of things with a prideful attitude: doing so implies an objectivity to subjectivity! In the same way, arguing acceptance with bitterness is the same as non-acceptance.

No idea is just an idea, ideas arise from previous ideas. More importantly, ideas arise with motivation. When ideas are formulated with the wrong motivation, and when wrong motivation brings those ideas to others, the idea has already missed the mark. It becomes like a jewel encrusted in a thousand layers of mud and slime.


gettinjiggywithit,

>> I accept others rights to do it [spread negativity, disrespect others, "going for blood"] and mine to ignore it.

Of course. Given the presence of so many happier alternatives, though, I feel as though I must say something.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Ped]
    #3169528 - 09/23/04 12:37 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

:thumbup:

I completely agree, Ped!


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Ped]
    #3169732 - 09/23/04 01:50 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I've noticed this trend too, not just in here, but almost everywhere in group discussion. It seems our dualistic nature, or maybe our conditioning of debating/arguing, causes us to naturally assimilate into 2 main groups around any issue. Yes, no. Right, wrong. Polarities of idea.

No one's wrong, but sometimes it seems as if people sacrafice their individual perspective to merge with others they have previously agreed with.

Nice post though ped :smile:


--------------------



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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Ped]
    #3169797 - 09/23/04 02:06 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

"It is foolish to argue the subjectivity of things with a prideful attitude: doing so implies an objectivity to subjectivity!"

I think you are putting yourself in an infinite loop here. If something is objective when I am arguing about the subjectivity of nature it most probably is my feelings towards that matter, not the matter itself. You have to set some invisible boundaries or else there can be no discussion.


--------------------


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #3169831 - 09/23/04 02:15 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

^ Yup :smile:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #3169832 - 09/23/04 02:15 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

just jumping in to say: i dont have any problem with S& P and the way its functioning. Obvioously people disagree without that this would be pointless. Im not Finding the atmosphere opressive or anything. That said i do notice that theirs basically people i agree with and people i dont, and no debate so far has really changed my view much, i mostly learn new stuff from the people i do agree with and then use the disagreers as ways to test the airtightness of my own theories, which is valuable in and of itself.

Lately im not being moved to interest by any of the topics on here, but thats just me. Some people do tend to be a bit assholish in their debate styles, maybe some of you would count me in their, and i dont think theirs any reason for that.

Im not impressed by people who start out by calling the opposing side idiots or fools and then fail to follow up with any great degree of evidence or debate skill to back it up.

I mean basically if you cant debate without using elementary school name calling, then you should go debate with elementary school children.

Just my two cents


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3169835 - 09/23/04 02:16 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

seriously mixamaotis, no offence intended honest question

have you been doing some cocaine lately?

(i love coke so im not being judgemental)


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Ped]
    #3169991 - 09/23/04 02:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
gettinjiggywithit,

>> I accept others rights to do it [spread negativity, disrespect others, "going for blood"] and mine to ignore it.

Of course. Given the presence of so many happier alternatives, though, I feel as though I must say something.




Ped,

I understand you 100% and I think I have probably spoken up here more then anyone else about it since I came. I get the feeling by little remarks that others use to and just gave up and cut down participation, which I think sucks because they are my favorite reads here, including you.

I think it's great you posted this and brought your feelings, observations and suggestions to the table.

Speak Up , loud and strong! Your intent is to create a more constructive and productive community of sharing for growth.

At the same time I support your speaking up now and 2 weeks from now if you are moved too, I offered my additional personal remedy of using the ignore user button.

I agree with you that hate and anger are toxic emotions to be exposed too. I am going to put up a post on languange and DNA next to even heighten awareness of this.

I use to beleive in a lot of this new age babble that says, you can put yourself in the line of fire and be unscathed. I've been testing it out here and a whole new paradigm is unveiling itself to me.

Wake up call for Jiggy, I'm not superman and kryptonite exists. I have weaknesses and I am getting realistic about them.

The bottom line here is one of resonance principles and synergy. Through them you will become the resonant product of your environment. This is why I choose to be selective of the energetic environment I expose myself to here by using the user ignore button.

One on one, I can hold my own just fine. I tested that out with one member here first. One on two, I shift a bit, and when I am one on 3, I'm toast and resonating with them.

This works in reverse and 3 to one can also lift another. Imagine if everyone here came with the intention of creating a lift? Oh shit, we would leave here with the most intense buzz and high. You'd all be off drugs in no time.

It's as if some people come here and say, hmmmmmm how many people can I pull down today and rally behind me to do it? Does any watch these patterns when they come here? Its wild.

I would love to figure out how to amp myself so intensely and be able to maintain it when connecting with 100 of a different resonance. So far, science makes that impossible. I'm not giving up on making it possible, but for now, I am accepting my limitations and am getting realistic with the pace and rate I can push them.

for a lot of us, the goal is to bring spirit more fully into matter so we can realise even more of out true self. but when some comes at you looking to disspirit and dis hearten you, spirit does pull back, it just can't can't handle those vibrations. When our spirit withdraws into retreat, we don't feel good or vital. In that we start to become negative ourselves and then look to feed of of others energy by the same mechinism that we allowed ourselves to become depleted from our strong connection with source-spirit.

I support your speaking up on this, I support all being an inspiration related to raising awarness on this here and I support, using the user ignore button when someone is a consistant pull down of your energy.


I'm going to keep using it to maintain my ability to get lift when I come here and I am going to do my best to generate lift when I contribute.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3170008 - 09/23/04 02:56 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

personally, and i dont judge your choices, i will never use the ignore button. I mean, i already have one in my head that works just fine. I mean lets say a user here makes 90% of his posts counter productive and stupid. Either you can use your built in filter and simply ignore his 90% crap posts and still not miss out on that 1 in ten that has some value, or you can just cut him out of your reality.

I mean i think stupid ideas have their place, they flesh out the board. I dont want to miss out on anything... and you never know when something good will come from an unlikely source.

Up to you though.

Oh yeah and im not refering to any actual user per say im just saying i dont think theirs any reason to cut out any specific person at all. Even Droz and his sheer incomprehensibility is sometimes interesting.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


Edited by Moonshoe (09/23/04 02:57 PM)


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3170016 - 09/23/04 02:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't take people's negative posts here seriously, even when directed at me.

Keep in mind, in their perspective they are right, as you are in yours. There is no need to expand externally, and implant your views into others, just as we don't like others doing this to us. Just flow with it, and if a post isn't worth reading, skip it. These are just symbols coming together from very different perception points, and people almost seem to thrive on idea competition, as to validate their own ideas for themselves. Those who have their own strong beliefs already in place are usually not the ones arguing for them. :smile:


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: Ped]
    #3170055 - 09/23/04 03:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

There are a lot of young people here with a lot of silly, half-formed ideas or completely non-sensical ideas.




Yes, sometimes one can see there are.
Learning is a never ending process, even if you use objectiveness when competing, this must serve the purpose of evolving the process of cooperation. Both, cooperation and competition, are learning tools but sure some equilibrium is required and must be achieved.
The problem is, most youngsters are taught to compete in detriment to cooperate. This is a weakness in the learning process, no one here can do anything but argue about this aspects - with the intent to help - and wait for those young people to accept others ideas and concepts.
What do you stand for, agreement or acceptance ? :wink:

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Does anyone else see what I'm seeing? [Re: MAIA]
    #3170065 - 09/23/04 03:12 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I had a very hard time understanding that MAIA. Prolly just me tho


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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infidelGOD 1,344 23 01/09/03 12:55 PM
by 3eyedgod
* Concept of Eternity and Clinging to the Treasured Veritas 666 16 01/05/06 12:19 PM
by Swami

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