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OfflinewhyIdied
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Temperatures of Psilocybin degeneration?
    #316691 - 05/14/01 05:03 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I was just wondering if anyone had any clues as to at what exact temperatures psilocybin begins to rapidly break down?  Is it linear or, as I suspect, stable up to a point and then it's survival rate begins to drop quickly?  I am considering this for drying reasons...and just to know.

P.S. Please don't just tell me to use a fan or something.  I really just wonder if any of you experts could fill in my curiousity on this point.  It seems just like a good thing to know.

Thanks!;)

...slow moves, sweet feet...


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Offlineegghead
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Re: Temperatures of Psilocybin degeneration? [Re: whyIdied]
    #316706 - 05/14/01 05:37 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Adam Gottlieb's book suggest's no higher than 200 deg F. I've read other's posts that said no higher than 150.



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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Temperatures of Psilocybin degeneration? [Re: egghead]
    #316735 - 05/14/01 07:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

A few data on psilocybin:
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_chemistry.shtml

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OfflinewhyIdied
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Re: Temperatures of Psilocybin degeneration? [Re: Anno]
    #318390 - 05/16/01 06:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks yall. Good stuff. I guess I might have to take this research elsewhere. I have heard that even sunlight can deteriorate this chemical...Peace

...slow moves, sweet feet...


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Offlineegghead
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Re: Temperatures of Psilocybin degeneration? [Re: whyIdied]
    #318396 - 05/16/01 07:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Whyld.. I was referring to drying temperatures. Of course, you'd want the lowest temp possible for long-term storage.

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OfflineAusCubensis
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Re: Temperatures of Psilocybin degeneration? [Re: whyIdied]
    #318403 - 05/16/01 07:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know how hot 200 F is. It breaks down > 35 C.



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InvisibleTripsAreForKids
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Re: Temperatures of Psilocybin degeneration? [Re: AusCubensis]
    #318661 - 05/16/01 05:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

what about the hottest environment possible that mycelium can grow and fruit in....?

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Invisiblerebelmoon
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Re: Temperatures of Psilocybin degeneration? [Re: whyIdied]
    #319167 - 05/17/01 07:11 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

stamets says thermal death at 106F
-daniel.


Edited by rebelmoon on 05/17/01 07:12 AM.



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Offlinehunterthompson
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Re: Temperatures of Psilocybin degeneration? [Re: rebelmoon]
    #319798 - 05/18/01 01:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

no way man this one time my dog made some shroom tea. he boiled the water (212 degrees) and there hit him like a champ



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Invisiblerebelmoon
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Re: Temperatures of Psilocybin degeneration? [Re: hunterthompson]
    #319875 - 05/18/01 03:16 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

yeah i was referring to the thermal death of cubensis mycelium, not the destruction of psilocybin/psilocin. sorry if that was confusing. according to stamets, you dont want to heat your cultures above 106F (someone above this post asked about that).

as far as the breakdown of the active compounds, i have no idea. on the erowid page, it says the melting point is: 220-228 in celsius. that is pretty fucking hot. and im sure that if you heated your oven to 200 C and roasted some mushrooms theyd be dead as... dead. no tripping from those mushies. maybe one day ill go and test it out to make sure ... but even if the psilocybin/cin doesnt *melt* it must breakdown somehow at lower temps.

but now i am curious... anyone know whats up?!? why do people always recommend shorting out the heating function on food dehydrators and stuff (so as not to heat above like 140F)??? there must be a reliable source for this... anyone have tihkal? maybe shulgin talks about it. or maybe mckenna in his cultivation book...

if it doesnt break down as easily as i thought, in my future dreams of fictitous events im gonna dry my mushrooms in the *oven* instead of previous dreams of using a fancy dehydrator. shit...
-daniel.




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OfflinewhyIdied
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Re: Temperatures of Psilocybin degeneration? [Re: whyIdied]
    #319988 - 05/18/01 09:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

OK, yeah...35*C is 95*F,
It's a great idea that the chemical would probably be stable at temps until the mycelium die, but I don't think it's a nessecary fact.  The chemical may suffer before the fungus dies.  Still 106*F is close enough to 95*F that it doesn't really matter, and is the best answer we seem to be getting so far. (approximately 100*F is highest)

The way I understand it, pure psilocybin isn't the stablest of substances; it oxidizes, which is a reaction that's rapidity depends on heat(like, duuuuuuhhhhhh, fire) and will continue over time.  That's why the "melting point" is irrelevant to us.  In an oxygen-free environment, pure-ass psilocybin would melt nicely at 2hundred odd degrees.:) but that is not our situation, soldiers! 
So what we're looking for is the point at which the oxidation becomes rapid and self-sustaining, like how paper doesn't catch fire till xxx*F, or whatever.

If anyone has any more information that would shed light on the (curve?) deterioration process itself for psilocybin in mushrooms (temp and time particularly), then let us have it!

While drying teks and old traditions are good, the bare facts of the matter would be much more versitle knowledge, usefull in innumerable ways (picnics, long backpack trips, hot rented storage units, the trunk of your car in the summer, etc).

It is also important to note that the behaviors of psilocin and baeocystin and other alkaloids might be measured for similar purposes.

...slow moves, sweet feet...


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InvisiblePrellgott
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Re: Temperatures of Psilocybin degeneration? [Re: whyIdied]
    #320074 - 05/18/01 12:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

My FOAF says:
I dry my shrooms in a dehydrator with heat, but I never let it go over 30?C, mostly around 24-27?C..they need between a day and two to get cracker-dry and the shroms are very potent.....I don't notice a difference to fresh ones (but there may be one..I'm sure some of the psilocin gets lost)

the same guys also told me:
I make tea with hot water and vitamic c with fresh shrooms, and the shrooms DON'T turn blue in the water (they are put into a mixer, hot water with lots of vitamin C added, mixed, and cooked slowly...under boiling temp (say 80-90?C),(this is made tow times with same shrooms, water mixed later) I'm sure the psilocin is lost that way..but it isn't very solutable in Water anyway..the tea is frozen and stays potent a long time

Vitamin C is an anti oxidant!!! there is not bluing reaktion at all!!
you know how mushroms would like if you mixed them in a mixed without water.....

peace


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Edited by Prellgott on 05/19/01 08:57 AM.



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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: Temperatures of Psilocybin degeneration? [Re: Prellgott]
    #320271 - 05/18/01 06:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think the vitamin C is the key there.

I can see a world where this is no poverty and no war, I can also see us attacking that world because they would never expect it. :wink:


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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