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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165252 - 09/22/04 02:37 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

The Muslims have Islamic states of their own already(
Saudi Arabia, Iran) and others where Islam is so
pervasive in the society that it might as well be a theocracy
(Pakistan for example). I am not complaining about Muslims having
an Islamic state. I am asking WHY Arabs are incapable
of installing governments that are ELECTED. I continually hear about
how some Muslims hate their governments and want democracy. Well,
WHY is every single one of their governments a dictatorship?


We haven't had a Muslim state since 1924. Do you ever bother to consider geo-political conditions? Or how these dictatorships historically came to power? The biggest smack in the face Muslims get from freedom totting westerners is when they bitch about governments in the Muslim world as if we're fans of them.

I am NOT asking why. I am stating the fact that it is suicide for
a nation to invite, or to give full rights to, people who are
dedicated to its destruction. Would you want fundamentalist
Christians who think Muslims should be executed moving to Arab
countries and demanding full rights and that their whims be
carried out?


They don't call it a 'Right of Return' for nothing. You have to be somewhere first in order to come back.


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3165266 - 09/22/04 02:42 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

My point still stands.

Explain. Because your point is on crutches.

I do not hold responsibility for the actions of my government any more than you hold responsibility for the actions of Muslim terrorists(though you seem to defend them far more than I defend my government).

You're an exception, ss7 - if you were running the country, I don't doubt that you would cater to Muslim grievances and pull out western interests in the Muslim world. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Americans do not see a single problem with Zionism - or have the slightest idea what their government has done over seas.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165274 - 09/22/04 02:44 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
My point still stands.

Explain. Because your point is on crutches.



My point is that saying that Israel wants to maintain a Jewish state is not the same thing as saying that Israel should maintain a Jewish state. By the same token, saying that Muslims want to create a Muslim state is not the same thing as saying that they should. Is that simple enough for you to understand?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3165282 - 09/22/04 02:46 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

The birth of Zionism itself was the biggest should in modern history.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165322 - 09/22/04 02:57 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
Nobody ever claimed that a democracy has to be perfect, or fair... corruption, bigotry, and discrimination occur everywhere regardless of the political or economical model followed by the society in question.

What's really classy is how everyone sings about Israel's 'democracy' when Palestinians don't even have the right of return.




To be honest, I cannot blame them for being less than open about accepting Palestinians. In a context that I can understand, I feel very bad for what happened to the american indians and I try to support them in any way that I can, but if they started acting the way the Palenstinians do, I would drop my support immediately.

You can try to justify the Palenstinian response to Isreal all you like, but nothing justifies the killing of another. The entire problem is too large for my small mind to grasp, but killing... by anybody: america, isreal, palenstine... does nothing but spread hate. I do not know the solution to the problem, but I do know that killing one another is not going to solve anything.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Seuss]
    #3165334 - 09/22/04 03:01 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

People seem to forget that more innocent Palestinians have been killed than Israelis in the violence that has ensued since 2000.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165350 - 09/22/04 03:08 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
People seem to forget that more innocent Palestinians have been killed than Israelis in the violence that has ensued since 2000.



Including the many cases of Palestinians killing each other.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165357 - 09/22/04 03:09 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

People seem to forget that more innocent Palestinians have been killed than Israelis in the violence that has ensued since 2000.




Doesn't matter... does an Isreali family suffer any less than an Palestinian family when a family member is killed? Killing begets killing. In my eye, both sides are being childish. If the Palestinian people want to win my heart and support, then all they need to do is declare peace... being the underdog isn't enough.

(I am not trying to belittle the suffering of the Palestinians. My point is that killing another solves nothing... and actually makes the situation worse by invoking emotions of revenge... an evil cycle of pain, hate, and suffering that cannot be broken until somebody finds the courage to love their enemy...)


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3165394 - 09/22/04 03:16 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

Zahid said:
People seem to forget that more innocent Palestinians have been killed than Israelis in the violence that has ensued since 2000.



Including the many cases of Palestinians killing each other.




Many? The odd traitor is executed - but those are rarely even counted, or documented. Please provide a source of all the 'many' incidents of Palestinian on Palestinian mass violence.


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Seuss]
    #3165407 - 09/22/04 03:20 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Ah, yes, it's always the Palestinians that have to 'win' the support of westerners.  :rolleyes:


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Anonymous

Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165464 - 09/22/04 03:31 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

because israel is full of educated jews with a respect for hard work, education, the rule of law, and secular government, while the muslim parts are full of people still harboring ancient animosities, tribal infighting, and religious intolerance.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165469 - 09/22/04 03:31 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

> Ah, yes, it's always the Palestinians that have to 'win' the support of westerners.

Not just them, but anybody... I have no more love for Isreal than I do for Palestinians... and Isreal could 'win' my support as easily as the Palestinians by honestly going after peace rather than chaos.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: ]
    #3165484 - 09/22/04 03:34 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

> while the muslim parts are full of people still harboring ancient animosities

Trust me, many Jewish people still harbor ancient animosities as well...

> and religious intolerance

This is one of the few things with Islam that I have issue with... What are the beliefs of Islam with respect to other religions? (Zahid?)


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Seuss]
    #3165487 - 09/22/04 03:34 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Unfortunately, many remain uncritical of Israel.


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Anonymous

Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Seuss]
    #3165491 - 09/22/04 03:36 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

This is one of the few things with Islam that I have issue with... What are the beliefs of Islam with respect to other religions? (Zahid?)

"If you're dumb enough to mock the Holy Prophet and Allah in a Shariat state you deserve to die"

- Zahid

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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Seuss]
    #3165522 - 09/22/04 03:43 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> while the muslim parts are full of people still harboring ancient animosities

Trust me, many Jewish people still harbor ancient animosities as well...

> and religious intolerance

This is one of the few things with Islam that I have issue with... What are the beliefs of Islam with respect to other religions? (Zahid?)




The Prophet Muhammad commanded Muslims to be kind and compassionate to non-Muslims by showing an example that might bring a non-Muslim into Islam. In the Holy Qur'an, Christians and Jews are considered the 'People of the Book' and are not considered Unbelievers. Under Shariah Law in Khilafah, everyone, Muslims and non-Muslims, pay a due tax to the government. For Muslims the tax is called Zakat, for non-Muslims the tax is called jizya. The jizya tax is different than the Muslim's zakat because jizya exempts one from serving in the Muslim military and it also makes up for the Zakat taxes required of Muslims. The jizya and zakat tax help fund the khilafah's places of worship which means Mosques, Churches, Synagogues, and temples are all built at the expense of the Khilafah. Under Islamic Law, non-Muslims are also allowed to serve in the Muslim military if they wish to do so.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: ]
    #3165526 - 09/22/04 03:44 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I take it you're not a fan of cynical humor.  :thumbdown:


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Zahid]
    #3165565 - 09/22/04 03:54 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

> What are the beliefs of Islam with respect to other religions?

So where does all the kill the infedel stuff come from? What is the context?


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Seuss]
    #3165607 - 09/22/04 04:02 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Nowhere in Islam does it say to kill the infidel unprovoked.


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OfflineDigitalDuality
enthusiast

Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 354
Last seen: 18 years, 11 days
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Seuss]
    #3165711 - 09/22/04 04:30 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Regardless of what is says about killing infidel's.. why not checkout Leviticus or many other sections of the Bible that requires us to kill again and again over petty fucken things. I can be stoned to death for wearing cloth of 2 different materials. I hope you don't have any poly-cotton blends.

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