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Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't?
    #3165022 -

???

Some might say it is because America gives Israel money, but America
also gives several Arab states money. Arab states also have immense
oil wealth. Why have the Arabs been so far incapable of establishing
democracy and stability? Why was Israel able to do it so effortlessly
and quickly? Are there cultural differences that explain this?

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165033 -

You must first be able to grow a brain before you can use it.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165044 -

I wasn't aware Israel would be considered "stable"

THe Arab world has been torn apart at almost every point of history by the west from the Crusades, to the World Wars, Western intervention in Iran/Iraq war, UN invervention and economic sanctions for nothing more than manipulative purposes to gain access to oil assets.

Isreal was able to do this because of the backing of the west. The control over the oil fields have continually changed hands between Mid East and West.

Kuwait .. i would consider stable.

Another major factor is education. But that comes with freedom.. and flourishes in times where living in fear of bombings isn't a norm.


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The People's Voice, Welcoming Liberals and Conservatives Alike

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165078 -

Saying Israel gets money from us and so do Arab countries is a bit oversimplifying. Israel is the biggest recipient of American foreign aid of any country in the world. As for oil money, no nation has been able to maintain a stable economy based solely on oil, with the possible exception of Norway. It's diverse economies which are most often able to prosper. As for democracy, you have to remember that the majority of Israeli Jews immigrated from Western nations, so they have already gotten used to Western ideas about liberal democracy. Also, much of the Middle East is mostly a tribal society, so it's hard to have a democratic nation with all these tribes competing for power(many African states have the same problem).


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165087 -

How can you call it a real democracy if non-Jews don't have the same rights of Jews.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3165095 -


I wasn't aware Israel would be considered "stable"

The only instability that is experienced by Israel is when they
are attacked by Arabs. If left completely alone, it is a free
and prosperous country.


THe Arab world has been torn apart at almost every point of history
by the west from the Crusades, to the World Wars, Western
intervention in Iran/Iraq war, UN invervention and economic sanctions
for nothing more than manipulative purposes to gain access to oil
assets.

I am not saying that Arabs have never been wronged...I am asking
why they haven't been able to bring about democracy, stability,
and prosperity, when Israel has been able to do it so quickly.


Isreal was able to do this because of the backing of the west.

America also gives money to Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. Even
with our backing they are still dictatorships.


Kuwait .. i would consider stable.

But undemocratic. Stability doesn't mean shit if the people can't
determine who their leaders are. i.e. they have no freedom.


Another major factor is education. But that comes with freedom..

So in other words...because there is no freedom in the Arab world,
there is no decent education in the Arab world?

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165108 -

Because non-Jews(i.e. Arabs) will do anything they can to destroy
the Israeli nation. Allowing them equal rights and the right of
return would be suicide for Israel.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165115 -

Why don't they just build that fucking wall already?
It's become clear that thse people would rather squabble over imaginary gods and blow each other up than make an honest effort to get along. Fucking childish.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3165119 -

Quote:
I wasn't aware Israel would be considered "stable"



it would be stable if it weren't for all those homocide bombers.

Quote:
THe Arab world has been torn apart at almost every point of history by the west from the Crusades



This is one thing people can't blame on the US, we weren't a country during the crusades.

Quote:
Another major factor is education. But that comes with freedom.. and flourishes in times where living in fear of bombings isn't a norm



who's keeping them hostage? Islam?


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165128 -

RandalFlagg said:
Because non-Jews(i.e. Arabs) will do anything they can to destroy
the Israeli nation. Allowing them equal rights and the right of
return would be suicide for Israel.


I'm talking about any non-Jew. A Mexican Catholic can move there and he won't have the same rights as Jews. You're also forgetting about Israel's large Israeli Arab population - wherein terrorists are rarely Israeli Arabs, most of them come from the occupied territories.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165141 -

> Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't?

For survival... they have to be 'stable' or the arab world will overrun them.

> How can you call it a real democracy if non-Jews don't have the same rights of Jews.

Nobody ever claimed that a democracy has to be perfect, or fair... corruption, bigotry, and discrimination occur everywhere regardless of the political or economical model followed by the society in question.

> Also, much of the Middle East is mostly a tribal society, so it's hard to have a democratic nation with all these tribes competing for power

Another good point.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Seuss]
    #3165153 -

Nobody ever claimed that a democracy has to be perfect, or fair... corruption, bigotry, and discrimination occur everywhere regardless of the political or economical model followed by the society in question.

What's really classy is how everyone sings about Israel's 'democracy' when Palestinians don't even have the right of return.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165156 -


I'm talking about any non-Jew. A Mexican Catholic can move there and
he won't have the same rights as Jews.

I guess they want to maintain the "Jewishness" of their state.
This assertion still doesn't answer why Israel has elected leaders
and had a prosperous economy(before Palestinians started blowing shit
up). Why has Israel progressed so much while none of the Arab states
have?


You're also forgetting about Israel's large Israeli Arab population -
wherein terrorists are rarely Israeli Arabs, most of them come from
the occupied territories.

But they still hate Israel and the "West" I'll bet. I remember on
Sept. 11 seeing video of Israeli Arabs in the Arab part of Jerusalem
jumping up and down for joy at hearing about the attacks. Most arabs
in general...whether they are Israeli citizens or not, hate the state
of Israel and the "West".

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165167 -

I guess they want to maintain the "Jewishness" of their state.
This assertion still doesn't answer why Israel has elected leaders
and had a prosperous economy(before Palestinians started blowing shit
up). Why has Israel progressed so much while none of the Arab states
have?

I call hypocrisy - and everyone has the nerve to whine and bitch about Muslims wanting an Islamic state of their own.

But they still hate Israel and the "West" I'll bet. I remember on
Sept. 11 seeing video of Israeli Arabs in the Arab part of Jerusalem
jumping up and down for joy at hearing about the attacks. Most arabs
in general...whether they are Israeli citizens or not, hate the state
of Israel and the "West".

Ever wonder the fuck WHY?

Why everyone in the West is too stupid and arrogant to ask such a simple introspective question to themselves is beyond me.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165190 -

Zahid said:
I guess they want to maintain the "Jewishness" of their state.
This assertion still doesn't answer why Israel has elected leaders
and had a prosperous economy(before Palestinians started blowing shit
up). Why has Israel progressed so much while none of the Arab states
have?

I call hypocrisy - and everyone has the nerve to whine and bitch about Muslims wanting an Islamic state of their own.


Uh...I don't think there was anything in that post in which RandalFlagg implied that it was ok for Israel to maintain a Jewish state. He was just explaining that that's their motive.

Quote:
But they still hate Israel and the "West" I'll bet. I remember on
Sept. 11 seeing video of Israeli Arabs in the Arab part of Jerusalem
jumping up and down for joy at hearing about the attacks. Most arabs
in general...whether they are Israeli citizens or not, hate the state
of Israel and the "West".

Ever wonder the fuck WHY?

Why everyone in the West is too stupid and arrogant to ask such a simple introspective question to themselves is beyond me.


It would be nice if Muslims did the same.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165210 -


I call hypocrisy - and everyone has the nerve to whine and bitch
about Muslims wanting an Islamic state of their own.

???

The Muslims have Islamic states of their own already(
Saudi Arabia, Iran) and others where Islam is so
pervasive in the society that it might as well be a theocracy
(Pakistan for example). I am not complaining about Muslims having
an Islamic state. I am asking WHY Arabs are incapable
of installing governments that are ELECTED. I continually hear about
how some Muslims hate their governments and want democracy. Well,
WHY is every single one of their governments a dictatorship?


Ever wonder the fuck WHY?

Why everyone in the West is too stupid and arrogant to ask such a
simple introspective question to themselves is beyond me.

I am NOT asking why. I am stating the fact that it is suicide for
a nation to invite, or to give full rights to, people who are
dedicated to its destruction. Would you want fundamentalist
Christians who think Muslims should be executed moving to Arab
countries and demanding full rights and that their whims be
carried out?

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3165228 -

Uh...I don't think there was anything in that post in which RandalFlagg implied that it was ok for Israel to maintain a Jewish state. He was just explaining that that's their motive.

He made the statement that Israel wanted to maintain its 'Jewishness'. Yet people complain when Muslims want to maintain their 'religiousness', and so on with Christians who wish to maintain their faith in the United States.

It would be nice if Muslims did the same.

That argument doesn't work because a) very few Muslims actually carry out acts of terrorism b) Muslims do not hold responsibility for the acts carried out by members of the same faith and c) The evils committed by the West are carried out by governments, not young 20-35 year old fanatics.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165235 -

RandalFlagg said:

I call hypocrisy - and everyone has the nerve to whine and bitch
about Muslims wanting an Islamic state of their own.

???

The Muslims have Islamic states of their own already(
Saudi Arabia, Iran) and others where Islam is so
pervasive in the society that it might as well be a theocracy
(Pakistan for example). I am not complaining about Muslims having
an Islamic state. I am asking WHY Arabs are incapable
of installing governments that are ELECTED. I continually hear about
how some Muslims hate their governments and want democracy. Well,
WHY is every single one of their governments a dictatorship?


Wait..are we talking about Arab states or Muslim states? Yes, every Arab state is a dictatorship, but Indonesia is a republic, and Turkey is a parliamentary democracy.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165244 -

Zahid said:
Uh...I don't think there was anything in that post in which RandalFlagg implied that it was ok for Israel to maintain a Jewish state. He was just explaining that that's their motive.

He made the statement that Israel wanted to maintain its 'Jewishness'. Yet people complain when Muslims want to maintain their 'religiousness', and so on with Christians who wish to maintain their faith in the United States.


My point still stands.

Quote:
It would be nice if Muslims did the same.

That argument doesn't work because a) very few Muslims actually carry out acts of terrorism b) Muslims do not hold responsibility for the acts carried out by members of the same faith and c) The evils committed by the West are carried out by governments, not young 20-35 year old fanatics.


I do not hold responsibility for the actions of my government any more than you hold responsibility for the actions of Muslim terrorists(though you seem to defend them far more than I defend my government).


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3165246 -


Wait..are we talking about Arab states or Muslim states? Yes, every
Arab state is a dictatorship, but Indonesia is a republic, and Turkey
is a parliamentary democracy.

I was talking about Arab states. When I say "Muslim", I use that
term because Islam is so heavily entrenched in the Arab world.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165252 -

The Muslims have Islamic states of their own already(
Saudi Arabia, Iran) and others where Islam is so
pervasive in the society that it might as well be a theocracy
(Pakistan for example). I am not complaining about Muslims having
an Islamic state. I am asking WHY Arabs are incapable
of installing governments that are ELECTED. I continually hear about
how some Muslims hate their governments and want democracy. Well,
WHY is every single one of their governments a dictatorship?

We haven't had a Muslim state since 1924. Do you ever bother to consider geo-political conditions? Or how these dictatorships historically came to power? The biggest smack in the face Muslims get from freedom totting westerners is when they bitch about governments in the Muslim world as if we're fans of them.

I am NOT asking why. I am stating the fact that it is suicide for
a nation to invite, or to give full rights to, people who are
dedicated to its destruction. Would you want fundamentalist
Christians who think Muslims should be executed moving to Arab
countries and demanding full rights and that their whims be
carried out?

They don't call it a 'Right of Return' for nothing. You have to be somewhere first in order to come back.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3165266 -

My point still stands.

Explain. Because your point is on crutches.

I do not hold responsibility for the actions of my government any more than you hold responsibility for the actions of Muslim terrorists(though you seem to defend them far more than I defend my government).

You're an exception, ss7 - if you were running the country, I don't doubt that you would cater to Muslim grievances and pull out western interests in the Muslim world. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Americans do not see a single problem with Zionism - or have the slightest idea what their government has done over seas.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165274 -

Zahid said:
My point still stands.

Explain. Because your point is on crutches.


My point is that saying that Israel wants to maintain a Jewish state is not the same thing as saying that Israel should maintain a Jewish state. By the same token, saying that Muslims want to create a Muslim state is not the same thing as saying that they should. Is that simple enough for you to understand?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3165282 -

The birth of Zionism itself was the biggest should in modern history.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165322 -

Zahid said:
Nobody ever claimed that a democracy has to be perfect, or fair... corruption, bigotry, and discrimination occur everywhere regardless of the political or economical model followed by the society in question.

What's really classy is how everyone sings about Israel's 'democracy' when Palestinians don't even have the right of return.


To be honest, I cannot blame them for being less than open about accepting Palestinians. In a context that I can understand, I feel very bad for what happened to the american indians and I try to support them in any way that I can, but if they started acting the way the Palenstinians do, I would drop my support immediately.

You can try to justify the Palenstinian response to Isreal all you like, but nothing justifies the killing of another. The entire problem is too large for my small mind to grasp, but killing... by anybody: america, isreal, palenstine... does nothing but spread hate. I do not know the solution to the problem, but I do know that killing one another is not going to solve anything.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Seuss]
    #3165334 -

People seem to forget that more innocent Palestinians have been killed than Israelis in the violence that has ensued since 2000.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165350 -

Zahid said:
People seem to forget that more innocent Palestinians have been killed than Israelis in the violence that has ensued since 2000.


Including the many cases of Palestinians killing each other.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165357 -

Quote:
People seem to forget that more innocent Palestinians have been killed than Israelis in the violence that has ensued since 2000.


Doesn't matter... does an Isreali family suffer any less than an Palestinian family when a family member is killed? Killing begets killing. In my eye, both sides are being childish. If the Palestinian people want to win my heart and support, then all they need to do is declare peace... being the underdog isn't enough.

(I am not trying to belittle the suffering of the Palestinians. My point is that killing another solves nothing... and actually makes the situation worse by invoking emotions of revenge... an evil cycle of pain, hate, and suffering that cannot be broken until somebody finds the courage to love their enemy...)


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3165394 -

silversoul7 said:
Zahid said:
People seem to forget that more innocent Palestinians have been killed than Israelis in the violence that has ensued since 2000.


Including the many cases of Palestinians killing each other.


Many? The odd traitor is executed - but those are rarely even counted, or documented. Please provide a source of all the 'many' incidents of Palestinian on Palestinian mass violence.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Seuss]
    #3165407 -

Ah, yes, it's always the Palestinians that have to 'win' the support of westerners.  :rolleyes:


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165464 -

because israel is full of educated jews with a respect for hard work, education, the rule of law, and secular government, while the muslim parts are full of people still harboring ancient animosities, tribal infighting, and religious intolerance.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165469 -

> Ah, yes, it's always the Palestinians that have to 'win' the support of westerners.

Not just them, but anybody... I have no more love for Isreal than I do for Palestinians... and Isreal could 'win' my support as easily as the Palestinians by honestly going after peace rather than chaos.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: ]
    #3165484 -

> while the muslim parts are full of people still harboring ancient animosities

Trust me, many Jewish people still harbor ancient animosities as well...

> and religious intolerance

This is one of the few things with Islam that I have issue with... What are the beliefs of Islam with respect to other religions? (Zahid?)


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Seuss]
    #3165487 -

Unfortunately, many remain uncritical of Israel.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Seuss]
    #3165491 -

This is one of the few things with Islam that I have issue with... What are the beliefs of Islam with respect to other religions? (Zahid?)

"If you're dumb enough to mock the Holy Prophet and Allah in a Shariat state you deserve to die"

- Zahid

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Seuss]
    #3165522 -

Seuss said:
> while the muslim parts are full of people still harboring ancient animosities

Trust me, many Jewish people still harbor ancient animosities as well...

> and religious intolerance

This is one of the few things with Islam that I have issue with... What are the beliefs of Islam with respect to other religions? (Zahid?)


The Prophet Muhammad commanded Muslims to be kind and compassionate to non-Muslims by showing an example that might bring a non-Muslim into Islam. In the Holy Qur'an, Christians and Jews are considered the 'People of the Book' and are not considered Unbelievers. Under Shariah Law in Khilafah, everyone, Muslims and non-Muslims, pay a due tax to the government. For Muslims the tax is called Zakat, for non-Muslims the tax is called jizya. The jizya tax is different than the Muslim's zakat because jizya exempts one from serving in the Muslim military and it also makes up for the Zakat taxes required of Muslims. The jizya and zakat tax help fund the khilafah's places of worship which means Mosques, Churches, Synagogues, and temples are all built at the expense of the Khilafah. Under Islamic Law, non-Muslims are also allowed to serve in the Muslim military if they wish to do so.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: ]
    #3165526 -

I take it you're not a fan of cynical humor.  :thumbdown:


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Zahid]
    #3165565 -

> What are the beliefs of Islam with respect to other religions?

So where does all the kill the infedel stuff come from? What is the context?


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Seuss]
    #3165607 -

Nowhere in Islam does it say to kill the infidel unprovoked.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Seuss]
    #3165711 -

Regardless of what is says about killing infidel's.. why not checkout Leviticus or many other sections of the Bible that requires us to kill again and again over petty fucken things. I can be stoned to death for wearing cloth of 2 different materials. I hope you don't have any poly-cotton blends.


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The People's Voice, Welcoming Liberals and Conservatives Alike

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3165922 -


We haven't had a Muslim state since 1924.

If Muslims want to make some kind of "pure" Muslim state, I don't
give a fuck. However, I have a feeling that it will descend into
a barbaric theocracy much like Iran.


Do you ever bother to consider geo-political conditions? Or how these
dictatorships historically came to power?

Ah...so you finally get around to kind of trying to answer my
question. I asked why Arab states were all fucked up dictatorships
and you say because of "geo-political conditions". What are these
conditions? Why are Arab governments so fucked up?

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3165996 -

If Muslims want to make some kind of "pure" Muslim state, I don't
give a fuck. However, I have a feeling that it will descend into
a barbaric theocracy much like Iran.

O RandalFlagg, the Omniscient One.

Ah...so you finally get around to kind of trying to answer my
question. I asked why Arab states were all fucked up dictatorships
and you say because of "geo-political conditions". What are these
conditions? Why are Arab governments so fucked up?

Because they don't observe Shariah and abuse it instead.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3166042 -

RandalFlagg said:
Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't?

Why have the Arabs been so far incapable of establishing democracy and stability?


It's simple, Arab states aren't run by the Jews. If we put the Jews in charge, they'd be fixed in no time... making movies, running banks and sending out stand up comedians to entertain the world.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3166075 -

The USA gives aid equivalent to about one million dollars per Jew in Israel. But they don't get most of it in cash. Most of the aid the US gives is in the form of credits to purchase military technology from the US. Which theState of Israel uses to murder Palestinians. Any wonder why the US is so hated in the Widdle East? The So called Arab States are constructs of the British and the US who carved the middle east into minor states which they could manipulate for the rights to their oil. A good example of a democracy was the Democraticaly elected government of Iran, which the CIA overthrew in the 1950's when the US installed the Shaw of Iran (read American puppet) European governments did the same to many of the African countries to exploit them for their natural resources.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: JuanMatus]
    #3166079 -

Quote:
The So called Arab States are constructs of the British and the US who carved the middle east into minor states which they could manipulate for the rights to their oil.


Name one Arab state which the US had a hand in "carving out."


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: JuanMatus]
    #3166892 -


The USA gives aid equivalent to about one million dollars per Jew in
Israel.

There are roughly 6 million Jews in Israel I do believe. 6 million
times 1 million = 6 trillion dollars. The U.S. federal government
spends about 2 trillion per year on its ENTIRE budget. Your figures
are wrong.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3166948 -

"Facts? We don' need no steenkin' facts!"


pinky


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3166960 -

Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are not?

Because Jews work. Arabs seethe.

pinky


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Phred]
    #3167014 -

Because Arab countries are poor and Israel gets its fiscal backbone from non-Jews. Keep trying.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3167036 -


Because they don't observe Shariah and abuse it instead.

So...if the U.S. completely removed itself from any involvement in
the Middle East(no money to Israel, no money to Arab regimes, no
troops in any Middle Eastern country), would the Middle East magically
turn into a paradise? What would happen? Would Shariah all of a
sudden be followed correctly and everybody would be happy? Would
the dictators still stay in power? Would the old dictators be
overthrown only to be replaced with new ones? Seriously, what
do you think would happen? Also, if the U.S. completely removed
itself from the Middle East, would Muslims still hate us?

The following of Shariah is not a necessity in ensuring
freedom. There are many democratic and prosperous countries
around the world that are not ruled by Shariah. Is "correct" Shariah
something that is needed in the Middle East? If it is
not existent or not followed correctly will Arab countries continue to
flounder?

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3167047 -


Because Arab countries are poor

Sitting on top of the world's largest collection of oil..and
pumping and selling millions of barrels a day is not what I
would call poverty.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3167065 -

RandalFlagg said:

Because Arab countries are poor

Sitting on top of the world's largest collection of oil..and
pumping and selling millions of barrels a day is not what I
would call poverty.


Relying on a single export is not how a country becomes prosperous, no matter how valuable that export is.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3167113 -

Without Western intervention, dictatorships would gradually fall to Islamic revolutions.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3167117 -


Relying on a single export is not how a country becomes prosperous,
no matter how valuable that export is

Well, it's not my fault if they haven't figured out how to diversify
their economies.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3167127 -

RandalFlagg said:

Relying on a single export is not how a country becomes prosperous,
no matter how valuable that export is

Well, it's not my fault if they haven't figured out how to diversify
their economies.


Nor did I say it was. I was merely explaining why having oil does not make a country rich.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3167131 -

Quote:
Zahid said:
Without Western intervention, dictatorships would gradually fall to Islamic revolutions.


You mean that current dictatorships would be traded for new dictatorships.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3167143 -


Without Western intervention, dictatorships would gradually fall to
Islamic revolutions.

Why hasn't Syria or Lebanon(countries the U.S. gives no money to)
fallen to Islamic revolutions? How would Iran's Islamic revolution
be fixed? What is to stop Islamic revolutions from ending up as
fucked up as Iran's? What is to stop the perpetual Arab strongmen
and thugs from trying to take power? Is it possible that during
the fall of the dictatorships, there would be a lot of chaos, death,
and jockeying for power?

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3167155 -

Also...you didn't answer this question:

If the U.S. completely removed itself from the Middle East, would
Muslims still hate us?

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Evolving]
    #3167163 -

Evolving said:
Zahid said:
Without Western intervention, dictatorships would gradually fall to Islamic revolutions.


You mean that current dictatorships would be traded for new dictatorships.


Do you consider Khilafah a dictatorship? Do you consider the great Muslim empires of centuries past as nothing but dictatorships? Us Muslims regard Khilafah as sacred. Under Khilafah, Muslims get a social sense that Allah is nearer to us and he taking care of us under the justice of Khilafah. Under Khilafah Muslims are able to focus on our complete submission and slavery to Allah. Islamic Law is Sacred to Muslims.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3167194 -

Zahid writes:

Islamic Law is Sacred to Muslims.

And there, in a nutshell, is the answer to the question posed in the first post of the thread. Islamic law is sacred. Individual freedom means bupkes. Submission to Allah is all.

pinky


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3167225 -

Zahid said:
Do you consider Khilafah a dictatorship?


From a quick description looked up on the internet, yes. It is most definately a dictatorship.

Quote:
Do you consider the great Muslim empires of centuries past as nothing but dictatorships?


Specifics...

Quote:
Us Muslims regard Khilafah as sacred.


BFD. Would you like to live under the government edicts of the Pope? Such a condition would be a dictatorship as surely as your Khilafah.

Quote:
Under Khilafah Muslims are able to focus on our complete submission and slavery to Allah.


Slavery = dictatorship.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Phred]
    #3167233 -

Individual freedom is found in complete obedience to God. There is political freedom in Khilafah. The people decide on who rules. But there is no freedom given to those who wish to sin in public by building bars, gay bars, etc.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3167249 -

This is a Zen thing, then? Or is it a "1984" thing? "Submission is freedom". Yeah, right, Achmed.

This is why though Europe will be Eurabia in a generation, America never will be.

pinky


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Evolving]
    #3167287 -

From a quick description looked up on the internet, yes. It is most definately a dictatorship.

Amazing; the ignorance of Islam is deep seated in the West; even in their scholars.

Specifics...

The first Khilafah in Arabia for example, which was lead by the companions of God's Prophet Muhammad.

Slavery = dictatorship.

In the context I was speaking in, I was talking about Slavery to God. Those who run and enforce the Khilafah are also slaves of Allah, as are the dhimmitudes. We submit to the Divine Law ordained by God.

BFD. Would you like to live under the government edicts of the Pope? Such a condition would be a dictatorship as surely as your Khilafah.

I would have little problem living under Catholic Law as Muslims and Catholic generally share a same sense of morality that is in obedience to the Lord.

Slavery = dictatorship.

I wasn't talking about slavery to state, I was talking about Slavery to God, and Submission to His Divine Law. Even those who run and enforce the Khilafah are slaves of Allah. We all obey the Divine Law ordained by God Almighty.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3167291 -


Without Western intervention, dictatorships would gradually fall to
Islamic revolutions.


Also, who would be responsible for this translation, implimentation,
and enforcement of Shariah? The Shia's? The Sunnis? The Wahhabi's?
Is it possible that all of these branches would have animosity and
fight each other(like they do in the present day)? Would this
sectarian situation explode into violence?

P.S. Please answer my prior questions in my other posts.

Edited by RandalFlagg (09/22/04 09:49 PM)

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Phred]
    #3167294 -

Think again - 6 million (the size of Israel :grin:) and growing.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3167516 -

Zahid said:
Amazing; the ignorance of Islam is deep seated in the West; even in their scholars.


Here's a little heads up, when you use jargon that is not known outside your cult, don't expect everyone to immediately grasp your concept. Here's a link I found regarding Khilafah, tell me what is wrong with the author's explanation.

Quote:
The first Khilafah in Arabia for example, which was lead by the companions of God's Prophet Muhammad.


... and, describe the government. What were people allowed and what was required of them?

Quote:
In the context I was speaking in, I was talking about Slavery to God.


Slavery to an imaginary being? Have you been to The Church of The Easter Bunny? He makes us color eggs and eat chocolate...

Quote:
Those who run and enforce the Khilafah....


Translation, "Those who run and enforce the Theocratic Dictatorship of Khilafah..."

Quote:
I wasn't talking about slavery to state, I was talking about Slavery to God


But when the state is based on forced obedience to mystic edicts, what does that make it?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3167526 -

Saudi is stable, but they're evil repressive bastards that the bush family the us government is in bed with. Just wanted to throw that out there.


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Evolving]
    #3167550 -

Here's a little heads up, when you use jargon that is not known outside your cult, don't expect everyone to immediately grasp your concept. Here's a link I found regarding Khilafah, tell me what is wrong with the author's explanation.

Read the history of Islamic Law through the Muslim world.

... and, describe the government. What were people allowed and what was required of them?

Everyone existed in a moral utopia.

Slavery to an imaginary being? Have you been to The Church of The Easter Bunny? He makes us color eggs and eat chocolate...

Allah is the True Reality. The life of this world is an Unreality, a test that unbelievers like yourself are sadly failing.

Translation, "Those who run and enforce the Theocratic Dictatorship of Khilafah..."

Under Islamic Law, the enforcers of the state are also in submission to the Divine Law of God.

But when the state is based on forced obedience to mystic edicts, what does that make it?

A nation of Guidance from the Supreme Being.


--------------------

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Seuss]
    #3168232 -

O you who believe! do not take the jews and the christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. Surah v 51

This is how Islam regards other religions. The only good jew is a converted one, the only good christian is a converted one.

If you have been exposed to the qur'an and don't convert, you are an infidel.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: EonTan]
    #3168284 -

That verse rings true because despite the fact Islam considers Christians and Jews people of the book, Christians and Jews dislike Muslims and regard us as unsaved. That verse is a heads up that Muslims will be challenged by everyone - kufr, and even those who worship Allah in different religions.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Zahid]
    #3168299 -

Why won't you answer my questions?

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3168327 -

Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
Also, who would be responsible for this translation, implimentation,
and enforcement of Shariah? The Shia's? The Sunnis? The Wahhabi's?
Is it possible that all of these branches would have animosity and
fight each other(like they do in the present day)? Would this
sectarian situation explode into violence?

P.S. Please answer my prior questions in my other posts.



The people elect a caliph who best represents all Muslims, and all people under the Khilafah.


--------------------

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3168358 -

Islam is a response to jews and christians not following the good book. The qur'an itself reads like a "what the people of the book did wrong before us" manifesto.

Islam actually takes It's qur'an seriously, unlike the jews and the christians before them. When there book says to do something, they do it. So If it did say Kill the infidels, it would be IMPORTANT, unlike Leviticus describing what to wear and what not to wear. The difference is in the Followers, no the scripture.

Fortunately it only mentions killing infidels when they INVADE.

The irony to me, is that Muslims living in the west and in the east are falling victim to the same Swaying, that the qur'an cites about the jews and christians before them. Little by little, the qur'an will be taken less literally, as the old testament was before. Orthodox jews made way to reformed jews, Christian fundamentalism made way to reformed christianity, So to will fundamentalist islam make way for reformed Islam. Then another Religion might come about that talks shit about the unworthy Muslims.

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: EonTan]
    #3168381 -

The difference is that The Old Testament and New Testament has been corrupt, distorted, and lost in translation by its followers. How many versions are there of the Bible? There are many. How many versions of the Holy Qur'an? One one.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Zahid]
    #3168432 -

For a Guy who loves the qur'an, I don't think you actually get it. Have you ever read the Torah in Hebrew?

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: EonTan]
    #3168453 -

The Torah and Judaism are closer to the natural religion than the polytheists of Christianity - however, it has still been changed. Logically, as it was originally revealed all at once to Prophet Musa.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states are [Re: Zahid]
    #3168761 -

The torah has remained unchanged since it was written down the first time in hebrew. 
It is translated into other languages just like the qur'an is, and things can get alittle blurry in translation.

The problem with judaism, in the eyes of Islam, is that it wasn't followed, the problem was with the people.  It will be the same with Islam. It already is.

PEOPLE ARE HYPOCRITES.

You are a hypocrite, I am a hypocrite.

Religion is hypocritical. A thourough read of The old and New testaments, and the Qur'an would let anyone know that.

I believe in GOD, and no religious Doctrine can convince me otherwise. :tongue:

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3171520 -

So, you think that Shariah law would be the best thing for all of
the Middle East. If America did not meddle in the Middle East,
the dictatorships would cease to be and this overruling Islamic law
would be instituted everywhere

You still have not answered the following questions however:

1. Why have Syria or Lebanon(countries the U.S. gives no money to
and has no involvement in) not fallen to "pure" and "true" Islamic
revolutions? These countries are not currently "meddled" in at all
by the U.S. and they are dictatorships.

2. How would Iran's Islamic revolution be fixed?

3. What is to stop Islamic revolutions from ending up as
fucked up as Iran's or the Taliban's?

4. What is to stop the perpetual Arab strongmen and thugs from
trying to take power? Do you honestly think that if the U.S.'s
aid and troops weren't around, that these strongmen would decide
to relinquish power? Do you think that strongmen wannabes would
not try and make a play for power?

5. Is it possible that during the fall of the dictatorships, there
would be a lot of chaos, death, and jockeying for power?

6. Why is the Arab world so different that it needs Shariah to be
stable and prosperous, yet there are many other areas of the world
(America and the European countries) that are stable and prosperous
without widespread Islamic influence or Shariah?

7. If the U.S. were to remove itself completely from the Middle East
would Muslims still hate us?

8. If the Middle East remained a shithole, would the Arabs continue
to blame America even if America was not at all involved in the
Middle East?

9. If there was no U.S. influence in the Middle East, how can
you be assured that Shariah would rise? Do you know for a fact that
it would rise?

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3171594 -

1. Why have Syria or Lebanon(countries the U.S. gives no money to
and has no involvement in) not fallen to "pure" and "true" Islamic
revolutions? These countries are not currently "meddled" in at all
by the U.S. and they are dictatorships.

They're not meddled by America, they're meddled by Israel.

2. How would Iran's Islamic revolution be fixed?

Iran is running their own affairs for Shi'ates. I do not agree with Iran's theocracy as it is not Khilafah, it is a clerical theocracy that's puts too much focus on the rulings of Clerics that the people have no say on.

3. What is to stop Islamic revolutions from ending up as
fucked up as Iran's or the Taliban's?

Again, Iran is a Shi'ate issue, it is their country and it is not Sunni business to intervene - they rightly overthrew the U.S. backed Shah and installed their own government. And the Taliban was constantly at war with the Russian backed Northern Alliance, and they refused to seperate culture from khilafah.

4. What is to stop the perpetual Arab strongmen and thugs from
trying to take power? Do you honestly think that if the U.S.'s
aid and troops weren't around, that these strongmen would decide
to relinquish power? Do you think that strongmen wannabes would
not try and make a play for power?

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about when you say 'strongmen'.

5. Is it possible that during the fall of the dictatorships, there
would be a lot of chaos, death, and jockeying for power?

You gotta break a few eggs to make an omlette. There is a hadith where the Prophet said Muslims will struggle over constant temporal rulers after the fall of Shariah before a group of righteous fighters establish the Khilafah again. We believe this to be Iraq. For Muslims, Iraq is the biggest hope for Muslims because now Muslims are able to meet the Grand Enemy on the battle field.

6. Why is the Arab world so different that it needs Shariah to be
stable and prosperous, yet there are many other areas of the world
(America and the European countries) that are stable and prosperous
without widespread Islamic influence or Shariah?

In Arab and Muslim culture, we believe that laws should be determined by God. Man made laws are considered a blasphemy and an insult to God because in man made laws, the laws are being decided by foolish fallible human beings.

7. If the U.S. were to remove itself completely from the Middle East
would Muslims still hate us?

Muslims would not hate America if they stayed out of Middle Eastern and Muslim affairs.

8. If the Middle East remained a shithole, would the Arabs continue
to blame America even if America was not at all involved in the
Middle East?

That's big giant IF being shot into the dark. You act like we're just scape goating America because it's the Super Power. That's not the case.

9. If there was no U.S. influence in the Middle East, how can
you be assured that Shariah would rise? Do you know for a fact that
it would rise?

It would rise, because in the modern world so far WITH U.S. influence, their intention is to prevent Shariah from rising.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3172139 -

"You gotta break a few eggs to make an omlette."

US is breaking thousands of muslim eggs to make a muslim omlette. Except the US is not Muslim. If US was Muslim, no one would give a shit. Kinda like Jordan took Palestinian land and Syria having troops in Lebenon.

It's okay for a muslim to kill another muslim, but it is jihad if a non-muslim kills a muslim. You people are biggots.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: downforpot]
    #3172162 -

Welcome back.  :grin:

I hope you've learned how to control your anger this time.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3172171 -

Nah, we beat the shit out of this arab in the market last saturday night. The wierd thing was that the market was owned by Hindu's and they just kinda stared and went about their business.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: downforpot]
    #3172190 -

lol.. it's always people like you that beat up Hindus and Sikhs thinking they're Muslims.  :rolleyes:


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3172200 -

Oh no, we were pretty sure the dude was a rag. I've known arabs and I have an Indian friend and I definitely know the difference between a rag and a hindu.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: downforpot]
    #3172252 -

I hate to break it to you, but Hindus and Sikhs also wear turbans ie rags.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3172279 -

I got a question for you. Why are you saying he was wearing a turban? This isn't the fucking desert. Everyone wears the same shit. The rag was obviously speaking arabic on his cell phone and had an arabic accent when speaking in english. I've heard Indians speak and that didn't sound like Indian,

Do you actually think we just walked up and beat the shit out of him? We dissed him first, then he starts saying some shit about him not supporting the extremists and Islam is a religion of peace.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: downforpot]
    #3172288 -

Try not to confuse Hindi with Arabic.  :grin:


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3172304 -

HAHHAHA. You are trying to act like you don't care and trying to make excuses. I've given you all the facts, you know you are crying deep inside with vengeance.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: downforpot]
    #3172317 -

Facts? You're making hot winded claims that you flip flop on.  :tongue2:


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3172322 -

Where did I flip flop?


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: downforpot]
    #3172343 -

You claimed that you were "pretty sure he was Arab" (notice the lack of mention of 'Muslim'). Then you change your story that you 'dissed' him and that he started saying Islam was peace, etc. You flip flopped.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3172353 -

No, I gave you more facts because you dismissed my statement. I tried to be vague and quick about it but it seems like you need all the facts to change your mind, except you're a muslim, kinda hard to change a muslim.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: downforpot]
    #3172374 -

Personal claims (which contradict eachother at that) are not 'facts'.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3172386 -

What the fuck. I never contradicted myself. I gave you more facts because you know you are pissed.

I was pretty sure he was an arab because he smoke in arabic and had an accent. You did not believe this, so I gave you more facts. You still don't believe me so you resort to dissin me. Your last resort in every thread.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: downforpot]
    #3172409 -

:grin:



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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3172416 -

There you go, you prove my fucking point once again. This is why I fucking flame YOU all the time.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

Edited by downforpot (09/23/04 09:31 PM)

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: downforpot]
    #3172421 -

So, fellas, why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab nations are not?

pinky


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Phred]
    #3172431 -

Israel isn't a democracy.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3172675 -

Why do you say that? Are the representatives to their parliament not elected by Israeli voters?

pinky


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Phred]
    #3173198 -

Non-Jews don't have the equal rights as Jews.


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Zahid]
    #3174012 -

Can you give us some examples?

And, by the way, the question is not "do goyim living in Israel have all the rights as Jews living in Israel", the question is "Why is Israel a stable democracy while Arab states are not".

Clearly Israel is in fact a democracy -- its parliamentary representatives claim their positions by being elected by the Israeli populace. To say it is not a democracy is to deny reality.

pinky


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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: Phred]
    #5993228 -

Simple.

The Arab states don't want to be democracies?

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Re: Why is Israel a stable democracy and the Arab states aren't? [Re: NamelessRevolt]
    #5993738 -

OMG, why would you bring this back. Zahid was a puppet and he even admitted it before he stopped posting. I am also pretty fucking sure he is still on here posting as another faggot with the same bullshit ideas.


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http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

Edited by downforpot (08/25/06 06:32 PM)

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