Home | Community | Message Board


Myco Supply
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: Scales

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Invisiblezee_werp
a fractalcreature
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/25/03
Posts: 1,026
Loc: Aotearoa
Holograms - the whole in every piece?
    #3163094 - 09/22/04 01:50 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Over the time I've been reading books about consciousness, contemporary science, etc, I've noticed the topic of holograms arise multiple times.

At the moment I'm reading 'The Holotropic Mind' by Stanislav Grof. I'm still in the early stages of the book and I just wanted to put this forward so that maybe I could get a better understanding of holograms before I continue further.

OK so anyway, I'm wondering about the 'whole in every part' thing. In the first chapter of Grofs book, it shows how a hologram is created by bouncing a laser off of a 'holographic plate' and then intersecting that with another laser to create the 3D image in mid air. The next illustration shows the holographic plate broken up into pieces as though it had shattered, and the laser is going through just a tiny portion of one of the chunks and yet it is still producing the image, in this case an apple.

The caption of the figure reads: 'Unlike normal photographs, every portion of a piece of holographic film contains all the information of the whole. Thus if a piece of a holographic plate is broken into fragments, each piece can still be used to reconstruct the entire image.'

Yet nowhere does it mention a limit on the size of the piece at which it will no longer produce the whole.

What I want to know is, what exactly is going on here? What is the limit of the size of the chunk that can be used to recreate the whole? Obviously it can't be infinite, because eventually it would get to a molecular level, and how could that contain the image?

Also, if the entire hologram can be made from a tiny chunk, then why the heck do they bother making a large plate in the first place, why aren't all holograms made from tiny chunks? Does the resolution of the hologram decrease as the pieces get smaller?

I hope these questions make sense, hopefully someone here can help out. With the frequency of people mentioning this type of stuff in so much literature, I figured it'd be worth understanding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 19,685
Re: Holograms - the whole in every piece? [Re: zee_werp]
    #3163635 - 09/22/04 05:39 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

in the brain the whole is carried in the part, and as cortical brain material is removed or damaged, experiments show that memory remains intact but gets fuzzier.
a hologram will also get more and more fuzzy as it is cut up.
eventually 1/100th of the original is the same for apple as for ball.

in the brain there are some hardwired inputs and outputs however

eg.





and

the above show the results of mapping real estate into reality, any of these seem familiar? they are the inner picture of neural inputs and outputs that we work with.

anyway if these sections are removed or damaged, body sensation or mobility are disrupted.
minor rewiring can occur if the damage is not to great, but that is a bit different than the holography question which relates to memory quite well.


Edited by redgreenvines (09/22/04 05:44 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblezee_werp
a fractalcreature
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/25/03
Posts: 1,026
Loc: Aotearoa
Re: Holograms - the whole in every piece? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3163924 - 09/22/04 10:20 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Cheers for that info :smile: I've studied those diagrams in my psych classes, so am well familiar with that aspect of it.

I find it strange how the thing about it getting fuzzier and fuzzier as the pieces get smaller isn't mentioned more often when people talk about holograms. I think when using that analogy to the mind it would be an important aspect to highlight that it didn't infact stay the same as the original but rather a fuzzier version of it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Holograms - the whole in every piece? [Re: zee_werp]
    #3163975 - 09/22/04 10:47 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

When you break the holograph you get smaller less detailed copies of the whole picture. Presumably at some point you would just have a small dot with no detail whatsoever. So yes, the resolution decreases as the size gets smaller, which is why they would make a large plate.

The holographic principle does seem to pop up quite often in science, which leads me to think that it is, in fact, a fundamental aspect of our Universe. There are areas of physics where we see the same principle of 3d information being stored on a 2d surface as we do in holograms. The Entropy of a black hole is directly proportional to the surface area of the event horizon. If you take a closed area of space, ALL the data required to describe its contents can be stored on the 2d surface which bounds the space. Some scientists have suggested that our Universe is itself actually a hologram, and that 3d existence is only an illusion.

Look at a fractal. You can zoom in over and over again, but the image just keeps repeating over and over. As if every part of the fractal has all the information to recreate the whole...

If our Universe is holographic, it could explain why we see the same general themes repeated on large and small scales (electrons around the nucleus, planets around the stars).


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 19,685
Re: Holograms - the whole in every piece? [Re: trendal]
    #3163995 - 09/22/04 10:59 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

to us, the hologram is a natural 2-d or membrane based encoding of
3-d images, and in our brains, we are wired to associate based upon holographic - membrane based - electrical and biological patterns.

space is full of 2-d surfaces or membranes, so we would expect to keep on discovering issues that have holographic nature.

what will become very interesting is when we start to examine the first 4-d encoding issues in space encoded on 3-d membranes of that space - i.e. when solid matter becomes the holographic recording host of 4 dimensional events. . (it is just too much!)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Holograms - the whole in every piece? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3164004 - 09/22/04 11:04 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Take a look at research into holographic computer storage. They have already progressed to using solid 3d chunks of crystal to store the holograms in, except they still store each hologram as 2d. They store them as "pages" in the crystal, each page is a little farther into the crystal. I think eventually we will just store the hologram as one throughout the whole crystal, instead of as 2d "pages".


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: Scales

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality
( 1 2 3 all )
gettinjiggywithit 5,073 42 03/17/08 05:25 AM
by 764hero
* Holographic Universe. Life changing read. DarkMushrooom 1,224 16 07/24/03 01:30 AM
by HagbardCeline
* The Universe as a Hologram seethe303 1,197 15 05/31/03 02:08 AM
by DailyPot
* The Universe as a Hologram kb73 749 5 09/03/03 05:07 AM
by Rhizoid
* The Holographic Universe Iriebuddha 1,032 4 07/17/06 02:01 PM
by ElectricJW
* levels
( 1 2 3 all )
numb59 5,344 41 08/29/01 10:21 PM
by Mighty Bop
* The Holographic Universe bloo_honee 1,065 12 07/17/04 09:38 PM
by Mithril
* hologram Gomp 823 10 10/27/04 01:51 AM
by TheDude

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
1,046 topic views. 1 members, 3 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Phytoextractum
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.054 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 14 queries.