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OfflineMXNR
Did the Mushroom choose you?
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Registered: 07/20/04
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How to Dodge the Draft?
    #3160576 - 09/21/04 04:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Hey All Shroomers,

I have read from a few sources that there is a possibility that the Draft will be in acted by July 2005 and this time, nastier than ever. This version of the draft legislation would make it harder for one to cross a border into an ajoining nation and also, women would be drafted.

Whether or not you agree with this (do a google search and find out for yourself or visit www.sss.gov) I need help brainstorming ideas about how to become ineligible for the draft. Any ideas you could throw my way that would keep me from having to kill strangers would be much appreciated. Lets hope this never happens and we can keep on chilling.

Thanks, Peace


--------------------
Master: Everyday change your clothes and eat your food and you will become enlightened.

Pupil: Master, I do not understand...

Master: If you don't understand, eat your food and change your clothes.


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Anonymous

Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: MXNR]
    #3160705 - 09/21/04 04:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

you could cut your hand off or something i guess.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Posts: 34,244
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: MXNR]
    #3160734 - 09/21/04 04:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You could kill yourself.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: MXNR]
    #3160739 - 09/21/04 04:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)



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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: MXNR]
    #3160793 - 09/21/04 04:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineMAGnum
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Registered: 07/08/04
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3160819 - 09/21/04 05:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:





Kerry said he wants more troops in iraqu and whatever.

The only solutions is one word.

CANADA!


--------------------
Agent 727
7


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: MAGnum]
    #3160844 - 09/21/04 05:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Oh yeah, being an only child helps too.


--------------------
Agent 727
7


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: MAGnum]
    #3160862 - 09/21/04 05:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

and edwards said no draft...but since kerry wont win..your best bet might be to turn into a neocon chickenhawk...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: MXNR]
    #3160892 - 09/21/04 05:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Tell the draft board you like to suck semen out of a hose. Out of a hose? Yea, suck it out o fa hose.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: retread]
    #3160940 - 09/21/04 05:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think you may be on to something there. Last I checked, the military still had a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: MXNR]
    #3160942 - 09/21/04 05:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Suck it up and grab a gun.


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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3161043 - 09/21/04 06:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

People get kicked out of the military for saying that they are gay.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: retread]
    #3161063 - 09/21/04 06:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You know, I've sometimes wondered about the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy.  Seems to me if they're referring to one's sexual orientation, it should go both ways, but somehow I doubt you'd get kicked out of the military for saying you're straight(unless it's the Navy :grin:).


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinehound
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Registered: 09/08/04
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3188601 - 09/27/04 10:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I know of some people that got out of the Viet Nam draft and all did it by doing something that would call their sexuality into question.

Wearing womans underware, leaving signs that they wear makeup, to just acting like they were the bigest flamers to ever set foot into the enlistment branches. I believe them when they say it worked for them back then but I have my doubts that it is still the surefire way to get rejected nowadays.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: MXNR]
    #3188701 - 09/27/04 10:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The "return of the draft" myth is just that -- a myth. It was started by Democratic supporters as a way to scare young'uns away from voting for Bush, despite the fact that the congressman and senator who introduced the resolution are (of course) both Democrats.

There isn't a hope in hell that the bill will pass, and even the two Dem sponsors realize that.

Don't get your knickers in a twist over it.

pinky


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3188727 - 09/27/04 10:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

What is your definition of 'myth'? Does it mean, 'within the realm of possibility'?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Evolving]
    #3188743 - 09/27/04 10:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Not a hope in hell the Democrat-sponsored bill will pass. There certainly won't be a draft by July 2005.

Oh, maybe if Kerry wins (where else will he get that 40,000 extra troops he's yammering about?) and Dems regain the House and Senate.... nah, even then some Dems will vote against it.

And the odds of Kerry winning are not that great anyway.

But -- within the realm of "possibility"? Sure. It's also possible that aliens from Beta Reticuli could land on the White House lawn tonight.

pinky


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: MXNR]
    #3188752 - 09/27/04 10:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

How about just telling the government that you won't go. Sure it might mean jail time but at least you won't be labeled a coward whilemaking a political statement about the war. If you think that something is wrong, don't try and figure out a way to avoid it, fight it.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3188878 - 09/27/04 11:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think pinky's right, the only mentions I've heard of a potential draft have been pure speculation.

But hey, if you want to move to Canada, it's nice up here.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: MXNR]
    #3190166 - 09/28/04 02:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think the best bet would be to move out.


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If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3190246 - 09/28/04 03:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It's also possible that aliens from Beta Reticuli could land on the White House lawn tonight

Or even more outlandish, that there are WMD in Iraq..


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3190855 - 09/28/04 10:09 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Not a hope in hell the Democrat-sponsored bill will pass. There certainly won't be a draft by July 2005.



What about after that? What about the when growing resistence in the mid-east, and the diminishing re-enlistment numbers reach a critical juncture? Will the U.S. pull it's troops back or will the old men once again sacrifice the lives of the young with legalized slavery? What if Iran is attacked for it's growing nuclear program? Do you think this will not bring more fighters into Iraq to oppose the U.S.? How will this affect troop deployment in the mid-east?

I urge everyone of draft age to look at their options and be prepared for the very real possibility. Don't be lulled by promises from politicians or assurances from those who will not be drafted should it come to pass. Check out the following link, How To Stay Out of the Military (Primer on Draft Resistance).


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3190871 - 09/28/04 10:17 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

It's also possible that aliens from Beta Reticuli could land on the White House lawn tonight.




then maybe they'll show up with death rays and point them and bush & cheney...and thats actually more likely to happen then kerry winning the election too :frown:...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineJameZTheNewbie
The Mahatma OfZalu

Registered: 05/23/02
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: MXNR]
    #3190933 - 09/28/04 10:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i was thinking of buying a couple of pistols and a shot gun...thats my draft dodging. anyone who really thinks they wont start a draft is kidding themselves. there is no democrat or republicans there is a tv reality show and its all staged. they both want the same thing. competition makes it easyer for them to get it. the draft will come. in 2005 or whenever. but one day they will do it again and on that day who knows whos gunna have some gun...o i mean fun.


going to prison wont help much unless you want some people on the internet to hear abuot it. which is good and it will start resistance but nothing that will slow them down. if cnn doesnt say the draft is bad then its not. just remeber that.


Peace And LOVE...and sometimes war


--------------------
Mice have feelings


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Evolving]
    #3190972 - 09/28/04 10:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Evolving asks:

What about after that?

Not for a very long time, if ever.

Whichever party institutes a new draft would be committing political suicide. Not only that, conscript labor is completely incompatible with the meme of the modern US military. There isn't a single member of the Joint Chiefs who would be happy with it. They would do everything in their power to dissuade Congress from instituting it again.

Besides, the draft has always been a Democrat thing, and it doesn't look like the Dems will regain control of the House and Senate any time soon.

As for Iran, no need to mount a full scale invasion to take out their nuke program. Lob a bunch of missiles at the nuke plant and problem solved. Or let the Israelis do it. No need at all for troops on the ground.

I won't disagree that it's a good idea to check out the link you provided. But there ain't gonna be no draft in 2005 if Bush is re-elected, and probably not even if Kerry is elected.

pinky


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3191011 - 09/28/04 11:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Whichever party institutes a new draft would be committing political suicide...Besides, the draft has always been a Democrat thing,



But the Democratic party is still here and still very strong. Bush's lies about WMD and Iraq being a threat haven't seemed to hurt him too much except with true conservatives and non-warfare state (true) libertarians.

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
As for Iran, no need to mount a full scale invasion to take out their nuke program. Lob a bunch of missiles at the nuke plant and problem solved. Or let the Israelis do it. No need at all for troops on the ground.



No Pinky, I mean after a few missles are lobbed over there. There's no better way to promote a flood of Iranians (and others) and Iranian armaments to come into Iraq to help with the insurgency - the ground fighting WILL intensify. If we do not have more troops over there to prepare for that contingency...

Quote:

But there ain't gonna be no draft in 2005 if Bush is re-elected, and probably not even if Kerry is elected.



You have WAY more faith in ego bloated politicians than I am able to muster. How about after 2005? How far out are you willing to go with your prediction? What if the possible scenario I describe with Iran comes to pass?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3191013 - 09/28/04 11:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

if you watched fahrenheit 911..then you already know why an actual draft wont really be necessary.. the poverty draft is just as good...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (09/28/04 11:28 AM)


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3191035 - 09/28/04 11:24 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The US military as a career (or even as an entry into the job market) has a lot of advantages. It doesn't surprise me that many folks from poor backgrounds choose to give it a shot.

My opinion is that rather than reinstitute the draft, if the military finds itself in need of more members they will instead relax some of the entry restrictions.

While what I say about the heads of the military resisting strongly conscript troops is true, when it gets right down to it is not the Joint Chiefs who make the decision, it is Congress. So I cannot completely rule out the possibility that if the Dems ever regain control of Congress and they have a Dem as president, that the draft may be reinstituted at some point in the future. I will say that if that time ever comes, the next administration would definitely be a Republican one. After the hideous national convulsion of the Sixties/early Seventies that was largely a response to the draft, the American people will vote them out at the first opportunity.

pinky


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OfflineJameZTheNewbie
The Mahatma OfZalu

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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3191047 - 09/28/04 11:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

pink wut if both want the draft when they bring up the idea. then what can we the people do. if suddenly the government decides this for us.

and dude dont even play that card the poor kids are being targeted. and i was in the city for the veterans meeting during the GOP convention. the troops are being treated like garbage. it isnt a great oppertunity. its their only oppertunity. its important to know the difference. they are backed into a corner.


peace


--------------------
Mice have feelings


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Offlinehound
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3191986 - 09/28/04 04:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
if you watched fahrenheit 911..then you already know why an actual draft wont really be necessary.. the poverty draft is just as good...




  Fahrenheit 911    :rolleyes:

  Poverty Draft      :rolleyes:

  You can call it what you want to but it aint no draft.


Edited by hound (09/28/04 04:03 PM)


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3191996 - 09/28/04 04:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
if you watched fahrenheit 911..then you already know why an actual draft wont really be necessary.. the poverty draft is just as good...



So now you are mad because the poor have an opportunity?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: JameZTheNewbie]
    #3192122 - 09/28/04 04:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"but one day they will do it again and on that day who knows whos gunna have some gun...o i mean fun."

So your plan is to shoot the draft officer or something? Brilliant.

"there is no democrat or republicans there is a tv reality show and its all staged."

Well, in reality there is a pretty big difference in many of the ideals of each party. The politicians generally start out with lofty aspirations, but they eventually learn they need to hover around middle ground if they actually want to get any votes. In this election in particular, whoever wins is going to be taking a vastly different approach with their policies.

"the draft will come. in 2005 or whenever. "

Probably not. The draft was the main reason that support was lost for the war in Vietnam; it made the issue much more personal. It's a lot easier to support a war when you know there's no chance you or your loved ones will be forced into it.

Plus, americans aren't dying at the insanely high rates that they were in Vietnam. The problem isn't that the Iraqis are kicking the American's asses, it's that the Americans aren't kicking the Iraqi asses.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phluck]
    #3192188 - 09/28/04 04:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Well, in reality there is a pretty big difference in many of the ideals of each party.



In reality, you should not judge them by the differences of their rhetoric. Do you want to know the differences? Judge them on their actions. There isn't enough seperation between them to roll a dime through.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineTao
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Evolving]
    #3192394 - 09/28/04 06:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Do you think a Gore administration would have started a war in Iraq?


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OfflineTao
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phluck]
    #3192424 - 09/28/04 06:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


"the draft will come. in 2005 or whenever. "

Probably not. The draft was the main reason that support was lost for the war in Vietnam; it made the issue much more personal. It's a lot easier to support a war when you know there's no chance you or your loved ones will be forced into it.





Exactly, this is the real reason there won't be a draft--chickenhawks learned this lesson from vietnam: there is no faster way to make support for your war go through the ground than to have young men who are forced into the military against their will, die. When politicians can say justification rhetoric like "well he volunteered for his country and fought bravely, dying a noble death, yada yada yada" the death toll is less regarded.


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Tao]
    #3192490 - 09/28/04 06:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The national guard will be deployed to Iraq.


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3192517 - 09/28/04 06:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Don't pay much attention to the news? They've been there for some time now.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Evolving]
    #3192591 - 09/28/04 07:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Judge them on their actions. There isn't enough seperation between them to roll a dime through.

Well, if your political education is based entirely on Michael Moore's books, then yeah, this makes sense... and he does make very valid points. They really don't differ very much on many issues, and they each put a lot more effort into looking like they're standing up for the fundamental values they supposedly believe than actually standing up for them. However, their approaches differ greatly in many ways, and their rhetoric does have an enormous effect on their policy. Post 9/11, rhetoric is key. I can hardly imagine a democrat basically giving the finger to the UN and invading Iraq with little support from the world. Also, the approach the president takes in speaking to the nation has a huge effect on the way the issues he is addressing are viewed. Not to mention, if you look at the trends in the ways democrats vs republicans vote on various bills, there are obvious leanings in different directions.

In the 2000 election it may have made sense to think that whoever is elected doesn't really matter, but this time it certainly does.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phluck]
    #3192612 - 09/28/04 07:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Phluck writes:

In the 2000 election it may have made sense to think that whoever is elected doesn't really matter, but this time it certainly does.

Absolutely.

pinky


--------------------


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: z@z.com]
    #3192967 - 09/28/04 08:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
if you watched fahrenheit 911..then you already know why an actual draft wont really be necessary.. the poverty draft is just as good...



So now you are mad because the poor have an opportunity?




becoming cannon-fodder for the neocon agenda is hardly an "opportunity"...

Quote:

You can call it what you want to but it aint no draft.




thats why its called the "poverty draft" and not just "the draft" :smirk:...and since it aint no draft..theres no danger that it will force some draftees into political activism to avoid an unnecessary neocon war...but if its the only "opportunity" available..then its a draft..not an opportunity...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3193005 - 09/28/04 08:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So what should be done about this? Joining the military is a great way to get an education and experience that can lead to better jobs later.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: z@z.com]
    #3193080 - 09/28/04 08:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
So what should be done about this? Joining the military is a great way to get an education and experience that can lead to better jobs later.






^ neocon twits idea of a "career opportunity"...but they still dont meet the requirement of being alive on the job...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3193096 - 09/28/04 08:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Most of them do not die, but a few do there is no denying this. If a person thinks the risk is worth the reward then it is their choice and I fail to see the problem with it.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phluck]
    #3193304 - 09/28/04 09:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Well, if your political education is based entirely on Michael Moore's books, then yeah, this makes sense...



Well I've never read any of Michael Moore's books. I have however, lived in the U.S. my whole life (43 years) and have studied political philosophy, given serious thought to implications of numerous political outlooks and public policies, attended numerous lectures and conferences, and worked for political causes and campaigns. I have made major changes in my outlook and opinions since I began doing these things. The cognitive dissonance which arose from an examination these things, my life, my morality and my choices made previously led me to resign a well paying and secure government job as a matter of conscience. I have continued to observe the consistent growth of government, the consistent diminution of our liberties from both the Democrats and the Republicans, the consistent criminalization of peaceful behavior, the consistent creation of new laws by judicial fiat (by appointees of both parties), the consistent process of government spending in the present with burdens to be placed on future taxpayers while accounting gimmicks are used to hide the irresponsibility - using the federal reserve to the benefit of major banking concerns from debt monetization while the currency is debased, the consistent use of legal maneuvers by both parties to thwart the will of the people through the use of the courts - challenging and nullifying popular votes. Sure the Democrats and the Republicans cause the ship of state to drift slightly to the left or to the right while they are at the helm, but the direction is always the same.

Tell me...
  • What percentage of the laws passed when Democrats have controlled the congress have been repealed when Republicans take control?
  • What percentage of laws passed when Republicans have controlled the congress have been repealed when Democrats take control?
  • Please list the years within the last 40 when spending has been decreased in actual numbers, not proposed spending from the previous year.
  • Please list the years when government revenue has decreased.
  • Please list the years when the number of Federal employees has decreased from the previous year.
  • Please list the Regulations of the Federal Register that have been repealed.
  • Please list the executive orders that have been repealed.
  • Why is it that the President who has increased government spending at a higher rate than any other in the past three decades is considered a 'conservative.'
  • Who controls The Commission on Presidential Debates?
  • Who are James Carvelle and Mary Matlin, and why are they in bed together?
  • Who makes the ballot access laws which divert resources and time of minor parties and make it increasingly difficult for voters to be given other choices?
  • Which groups under the banner of 'bipartisanship' worked together to pass so-called 'Campaign Finance Reform' which in fact goes against the spirit and purpose of the first amendment?


Now I really don't expect you to give replies to all these. But taken as a whole, it is quite apparent that neither major party takes us in a different direction than the other. On the contrary, they collude to strip us of our liberties and our property and to increase the power of the state. Neither group makes a concerted effort to undo the power grabs of the other. Indeed, they embrace the power they inherit as their own and wield it to their own advantage, always with an eye to increase their power even more.

In summary, there is not much difference between the two parties when you examine the results of their handiwork. To believe otherwise is wishful thinking.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (09/28/04 11:07 PM)


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: z@z.com]
    #3193307 - 09/28/04 09:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

any one who thinks canada is an escape from the draft your right, but you better get a move on. my country (canada) has caved in to US pressure once again and signed a treaty saying it will not accept draft dodgers from america.

I dont have a link, maybe its just hearsay but i certainly wouldnt doubt it


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Evolving]
    #3193447 - 09/28/04 11:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
Now I really don't expect you to give replies to all these. But taken as a whole, it is quite apparent that neither major party takes us in a different direction than the other.




Exactly why I will be voting libertarian this election. The two parties might as well have a formal partnership.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinehound
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3193564 - 09/28/04 11:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:



thats why its called the "poverty draft" and not just "the draft" :smirk:...and since it aint no draft..theres no danger that it will force some draftees into political activism to avoid an unnecessary neocon war...but if its the only "opportunity" available..then its a draft..not an opportunity...




  I don't think it is the only oppurtunity or chance that people have to get out of whatever hopeless situation they are in. These are not street people we are talking about. And I know of too many people who are in the military now that didn't grow up anywhere near poverty.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Evolving]
    #3193575 - 09/28/04 11:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Why is it that the President who has increased government spending at a higher rate than any other in the past three decades is considered a 'conservative.'

First off, 'conservative' doesn't necessarily mean fiscally conservative, it can also mean socially conservative, and Bush is that in a big way. Also, Bush is involved in kind of a ridiculous war right now. War is always expensive, whether you're conservative or not. Also, there's the support for big businesses, privatization, etc... (democrats may be doing these things as well, but they're leaning to the right in this sense).

There's definately a lot of creepy shit going on in the US right now, and there's been a very frightening increase in government control, and violations of basic rights. Both parties are responsible, and sometimes working together on bills that promote or enable these things.

I don't think this is caused by the two parties conspiring together to create a single government or anything like that. I think
Sure they cause the ship of state to drift slightly to the left or to the right while they are at the helm, but the direction is always the same.


True, but we're in the midst of a major historical event. The way american foreign policy goes for the next few years could potentially impact the world in a big way.

They're just basing their opinions on those of the general public, and trying to ensure they don't scare either side away, so that they can secure swing voters.

They've had the most money and marketing power for a long time. The politics they discuss are the only politics around, to most people. The green party, and the libertarians, as well as the various other parties, are hardly mentioned in the general media, and people don't tend to take them seriously.

The real way to change the way the government works is not to change the way the politicans think, but the way the people think. Somehow, people need to realize that they really can vote for other parties.

Sorry if I'm veering off topic, I'm a little stoned.  :stoned:


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineCubieman420
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phluck]
    #3194069 - 09/29/04 01:34 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Not saying they are telling the truth but this is from www.sss.gov ....

"Notwithstanding recent stories in the news media and on the Internet, Selective Service is not getting ready to conduct a draft for the U.S. Armed Forces -- either with a special skills or regular draft. Rather, the Agency remains prepared to manage a draft if and when the President and the Congress so direct. This responsibility has been ongoing since 1980 and is nothing new. Further, both the President and the Secretary of Defense have stated on more than one occasion that there is no need for a draft for the War on Terrorism or any likely contingency, such as Iraq. Additionally, the Congress has not acted on any proposed legislation to reinstate a draft. Therefore, Selective Service continues to refine its plans to be prepared as is required by law, and to register young men who are ages 18 through 25."


--------------------
"...now waters run free, no more fish in the sea..."
1983-2004


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3194228 - 09/29/04 02:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Don't pay much attention to the news? They've been there for some time now.

I am unfamiliar with troop deployments, Is all of the national guard deployed, or a certain percentage?


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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InvisibleLand_Crab
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3194350 - 09/29/04 02:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

With all due respect, I think it's a little more likely that we would need a draft than aliens from outer space landing on the White House lawn and doing a soft-shoe routine.

I would say, at this point, that there is a 10-20% chance that we will need a draft by the end of next year. Obviously, a million things could happen between then and now that might drastically increase or reduce that probability, but it is there.

I recall hearing that you can do "community service", or function in the military on a non-combatant basis instead of actually enlisting and fighting - I'm not sure if this is dependant on or if it even relates to applying for "conscientious objector" status, but it's worth checking out. Also, I'm not sure what the story about people with mental illnesses is - might be worth it to start huffing paint and carving hornless unicorns out of soap.

There's no way I could agree to fight in a "war" that I completely disagree with. If we'd stayed in Afghanistan, instead of effectively splitting our military in two for the invasion of a country that had direct no function or necessity for the security of the United States, presently has been bungled to the point of gross inefficiency, and in the future will be regarded as one of the biggest military and political blunders of our time - and we needed a draft, I'd probably go, because I'd actually be fighting for a reason. But I'm not shipping off to Baghdad to scrape up the bloody carcasses left behind another "precision bombing". You cannot stop an insurgency by killing more insurgents.

Civil war is coming to Iraq. Or, to be optimistic, we will have an indefinite number of troops there for an indefinite period of time. We fucked up. We could be attacked by terrorists tommorrow, and people would be standing around scratching their heads and asking "how could this happen again"? Then their grief would turn into anger, and that anger would turn into revenge. And we'd probably fuck up again, at which point I'll either be plotting to take control of the Government and set it right, or hopping a slow boat to Australia.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3194525 - 09/29/04 04:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I believe it's just certain units. I know of two people here (in different units) that have gone.

EDIT: Here's a story....
But most of all, it is looking to the Guard. As active-duty troops leave Iraq after tours of a year or more, they are often replaced by Guard troops, with the result that almost one-third of the 125,000 Army troops now in Iraq are from the Guard. Eighty-one Guard soldiers have died in Iraq, 29 of them in the upsurge in violence in April and May. For some states, those were the first combat deaths suffered by the Guard since the Korean War.

40,000 +/-


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (09/29/04 04:45 AM)


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OfflineJameZTheNewbie
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3196352 - 09/29/04 05:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

fuck kerry fuck bush fuck war and fuck anyone who doesnt fuck all of them  :pirate: :pirate:


--------------------
Mice have feelings


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3198806 - 09/30/04 03:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I believe it's just certain units. I know of two people here (in different units) that have gone.

EDIT: Here's a story....
But most of all, it is looking to the Guard. As active-duty troops leave Iraq after tours of a year or more, they are often replaced by Guard troops, with the result that almost one-third of the 125,000 Army troops now in Iraq are from the Guard. Eighty-one Guard soldiers have died in Iraq, 29 of them in the upsurge in violence in April and May. For some states, those were the first combat deaths suffered by the Guard since the Korean War.

40,000 +/-





Thank you.

I'll wager that Bush or Kerry will deploy all of them, after next election.


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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