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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3193005 - 09/28/04 09:19 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

So what should be done about this? Joining the military is a great way to get an education and experience that can lead to better jobs later.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: z@z.com]
    #3193080 - 09/28/04 09:33 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
So what should be done about this? Joining the military is a great way to get an education and experience that can lead to better jobs later.






^ neocon twits idea of a "career opportunity"...but they still dont meet the requirement of being alive on the job...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3193096 - 09/28/04 09:35 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Most of them do not die, but a few do there is no denying this. If a person thinks the risk is worth the reward then it is their choice and I fail to see the problem with it.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phluck]
    #3193304 - 09/28/04 10:53 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Well, if your political education is based entirely on Michael Moore's books, then yeah, this makes sense...



Well I've never read any of Michael Moore's books. I have however, lived in the U.S. my whole life (43 years) and have studied political philosophy, given serious thought to implications of numerous political outlooks and public policies, attended numerous lectures and conferences, and worked for political causes and campaigns. I have made major changes in my outlook and opinions since I began doing these things. The cognitive dissonance which arose from an examination these things, my life, my morality and my choices made previously led me to resign a well paying and secure government job as a matter of conscience. I have continued to observe the consistent growth of government, the consistent diminution of our liberties from both the Democrats and the Republicans, the consistent criminalization of peaceful behavior, the consistent creation of new laws by judicial fiat (by appointees of both parties), the consistent process of government spending in the present with burdens to be placed on future taxpayers while accounting gimmicks are used to hide the irresponsibility - using the federal reserve to the benefit of major banking concerns from debt monetization while the currency is debased, the consistent use of legal maneuvers by both parties to thwart the will of the people through the use of the courts - challenging and nullifying popular votes. Sure the Democrats and the Republicans cause the ship of state to drift slightly to the left or to the right while they are at the helm, but the direction is always the same.

Tell me...
  • What percentage of the laws passed when Democrats have controlled the congress have been repealed when Republicans take control?
  • What percentage of laws passed when Republicans have controlled the congress have been repealed when Democrats take control?
  • Please list the years within the last 40 when spending has been decreased in actual numbers, not proposed spending from the previous year.
  • Please list the years when government revenue has decreased.
  • Please list the years when the number of Federal employees has decreased from the previous year.
  • Please list the Regulations of the Federal Register that have been repealed.
  • Please list the executive orders that have been repealed.
  • Why is it that the President who has increased government spending at a higher rate than any other in the past three decades is considered a 'conservative.'
  • Who controls The Commission on Presidential Debates?
  • Who are James Carvelle and Mary Matlin, and why are they in bed together?
  • Who makes the ballot access laws which divert resources and time of minor parties and make it increasingly difficult for voters to be given other choices?
  • Which groups under the banner of 'bipartisanship' worked together to pass so-called 'Campaign Finance Reform' which in fact goes against the spirit and purpose of the first amendment?


Now I really don't expect you to give replies to all these. But taken as a whole, it is quite apparent that neither major party takes us in a different direction than the other. On the contrary, they collude to strip us of our liberties and our property and to increase the power of the state. Neither group makes a concerted effort to undo the power grabs of the other. Indeed, they embrace the power they inherit as their own and wield it to their own advantage, always with an eye to increase their power even more.

In summary, there is not much difference between the two parties when you examine the results of their handiwork. To believe otherwise is wishful thinking.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (09/29/04 12:07 AM)


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: z@z.com]
    #3193307 - 09/28/04 10:53 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

any one who thinks canada is an escape from the draft your right, but you better get a move on. my country (canada) has caved in to US pressure once again and signed a treaty saying it will not accept draft dodgers from america.

I dont have a link, maybe its just hearsay but i certainly wouldnt doubt it


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Everything I post is fiction.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Evolving]
    #3193447 - 09/29/04 12:37 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
Now I really don't expect you to give replies to all these. But taken as a whole, it is quite apparent that neither major party takes us in a different direction than the other.




Exactly why I will be voting libertarian this election. The two parties might as well have a formal partnership.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinehound
newbie
Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 154
Loc: NAPTOWN
Last seen: 16 years, 2 days
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3193564 - 09/29/04 12:54 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:



thats why its called the "poverty draft" and not just "the draft" :smirk:...and since it aint no draft..theres no danger that it will force some draftees into political activism to avoid an unnecessary neocon war...but if its the only "opportunity" available..then its a draft..not an opportunity...




  I don't think it is the only oppurtunity or chance that people have to get out of whatever hopeless situation they are in. These are not street people we are talking about. And I know of too many people who are in the military now that didn't grow up anywhere near poverty.


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Evolving]
    #3193575 - 09/29/04 12:55 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Why is it that the President who has increased government spending at a higher rate than any other in the past three decades is considered a 'conservative.'

First off, 'conservative' doesn't necessarily mean fiscally conservative, it can also mean socially conservative, and Bush is that in a big way. Also, Bush is involved in kind of a ridiculous war right now. War is always expensive, whether you're conservative or not. Also, there's the support for big businesses, privatization, etc... (democrats may be doing these things as well, but they're leaning to the right in this sense).

There's definately a lot of creepy shit going on in the US right now, and there's been a very frightening increase in government control, and violations of basic rights. Both parties are responsible, and sometimes working together on bills that promote or enable these things.

I don't think this is caused by the two parties conspiring together to create a single government or anything like that. I think
Sure they cause the ship of state to drift slightly to the left or to the right while they are at the helm, but the direction is always the same.


True, but we're in the midst of a major historical event. The way american foreign policy goes for the next few years could potentially impact the world in a big way.

They're just basing their opinions on those of the general public, and trying to ensure they don't scare either side away, so that they can secure swing voters.

They've had the most money and marketing power for a long time. The politics they discuss are the only politics around, to most people. The green party, and the libertarians, as well as the various other parties, are hardly mentioned in the general media, and people don't tend to take them seriously.

The real way to change the way the government works is not to change the way the politicans think, but the way the people think. Somehow, people need to realize that they really can vote for other parties.

Sorry if I'm veering off topic, I'm a little stoned.  :stoned:


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineCubieman420
Sharing in thegroove
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Registered: 03/20/02
Posts: 2,693
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phluck]
    #3194069 - 09/29/04 02:34 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Not saying they are telling the truth but this is from www.sss.gov ....

"Notwithstanding recent stories in the news media and on the Internet, Selective Service is not getting ready to conduct a draft for the U.S. Armed Forces -- either with a special skills or regular draft. Rather, the Agency remains prepared to manage a draft if and when the President and the Congress so direct. This responsibility has been ongoing since 1980 and is nothing new. Further, both the President and the Secretary of Defense have stated on more than one occasion that there is no need for a draft for the War on Terrorism or any likely contingency, such as Iraq. Additionally, the Congress has not acted on any proposed legislation to reinstate a draft. Therefore, Selective Service continues to refine its plans to be prepared as is required by law, and to register young men who are ages 18 through 25."


--------------------
"...now waters run free, no more fish in the sea..."
1983-2004


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3194228 - 09/29/04 03:11 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Don't pay much attention to the news? They've been there for some time now.

I am unfamiliar with troop deployments, Is all of the national guard deployed, or a certain percentage?


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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InvisibleLand_Crab
NeuroticPsychonaut
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 2,194
Loc: U.S.
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3194350 - 09/29/04 03:40 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

With all due respect, I think it's a little more likely that we would need a draft than aliens from outer space landing on the White House lawn and doing a soft-shoe routine.

I would say, at this point, that there is a 10-20% chance that we will need a draft by the end of next year. Obviously, a million things could happen between then and now that might drastically increase or reduce that probability, but it is there.

I recall hearing that you can do "community service", or function in the military on a non-combatant basis instead of actually enlisting and fighting - I'm not sure if this is dependant on or if it even relates to applying for "conscientious objector" status, but it's worth checking out. Also, I'm not sure what the story about people with mental illnesses is - might be worth it to start huffing paint and carving hornless unicorns out of soap.

There's no way I could agree to fight in a "war" that I completely disagree with. If we'd stayed in Afghanistan, instead of effectively splitting our military in two for the invasion of a country that had direct no function or necessity for the security of the United States, presently has been bungled to the point of gross inefficiency, and in the future will be regarded as one of the biggest military and political blunders of our time - and we needed a draft, I'd probably go, because I'd actually be fighting for a reason. But I'm not shipping off to Baghdad to scrape up the bloody carcasses left behind another "precision bombing". You cannot stop an insurgency by killing more insurgents.

Civil war is coming to Iraq. Or, to be optimistic, we will have an indefinite number of troops there for an indefinite period of time. We fucked up. We could be attacked by terrorists tommorrow, and people would be standing around scratching their heads and asking "how could this happen again"? Then their grief would turn into anger, and that anger would turn into revenge. And we'd probably fuck up again, at which point I'll either be plotting to take control of the Government and set it right, or hopping a slow boat to Australia.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3194525 - 09/29/04 05:41 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

I believe it's just certain units. I know of two people here (in different units) that have gone.

EDIT: Here's a story....
But most of all, it is looking to the Guard. As active-duty troops leave Iraq after tours of a year or more, they are often replaced by Guard troops, with the result that almost one-third of the 125,000 Army troops now in Iraq are from the Guard. Eighty-one Guard soldiers have died in Iraq, 29 of them in the upsurge in violence in April and May. For some states, those were the first combat deaths suffered by the Guard since the Korean War.

40,000 +/-


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (09/29/04 05:45 AM)


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OfflineJameZTheNewbie
The Mahatma OfZalu

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 736
Loc: pass the gates of hell 2 ...
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3196352 - 09/29/04 06:02 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

fuck kerry fuck bush fuck war and fuck anyone who doesnt fuck all of them  :pirate: :pirate:


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Mice have feelings


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3198806 - 09/30/04 04:18 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I believe it's just certain units. I know of two people here (in different units) that have gone.

EDIT: Here's a story....
But most of all, it is looking to the Guard. As active-duty troops leave Iraq after tours of a year or more, they are often replaced by Guard troops, with the result that almost one-third of the 125,000 Army troops now in Iraq are from the Guard. Eighty-one Guard soldiers have died in Iraq, 29 of them in the upsurge in violence in April and May. For some states, those were the first combat deaths suffered by the Guard since the Korean War.

40,000 +/-





Thank you.

I'll wager that Bush or Kerry will deploy all of them, after next election.


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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