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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3190246 - 09/28/04 03:12 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

It's also possible that aliens from Beta Reticuli could land on the White House lawn tonight

Or even more outlandish, that there are WMD in Iraq..


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3190855 - 09/28/04 10:09 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Not a hope in hell the Democrat-sponsored bill will pass. There certainly won't be a draft by July 2005.



What about after that? What about the when growing resistence in the mid-east, and the diminishing re-enlistment numbers reach a critical juncture? Will the U.S. pull it's troops back or will the old men once again sacrifice the lives of the young with legalized slavery? What if Iran is attacked for it's growing nuclear program? Do you think this will not bring more fighters into Iraq to oppose the U.S.? How will this affect troop deployment in the mid-east?

I urge everyone of draft age to look at their options and be prepared for the very real possibility. Don't be lulled by promises from politicians or assurances from those who will not be drafted should it come to pass. Check out the following link, How To Stay Out of the Military (Primer on Draft Resistance).


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3190871 - 09/28/04 10:17 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

It's also possible that aliens from Beta Reticuli could land on the White House lawn tonight.




then maybe they'll show up with death rays and point them and bush & cheney...and thats actually more likely to happen then kerry winning the election too :frown:...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineJameZTheNewbie
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Registered: 05/23/02
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: MXNR]
    #3190933 - 09/28/04 10:39 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

i was thinking of buying a couple of pistols and a shot gun...thats my draft dodging. anyone who really thinks they wont start a draft is kidding themselves. there is no democrat or republicans there is a tv reality show and its all staged. they both want the same thing. competition makes it easyer for them to get it. the draft will come. in 2005 or whenever. but one day they will do it again and on that day who knows whos gunna have some gun...o i mean fun.


going to prison wont help much unless you want some people on the internet to hear abuot it. which is good and it will start resistance but nothing that will slow them down. if cnn doesnt say the draft is bad then its not. just remeber that.


Peace And LOVE...and sometimes war


--------------------
Mice have feelings


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Evolving]
    #3190972 - 09/28/04 10:54 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Evolving asks:

What about after that?

Not for a very long time, if ever.

Whichever party institutes a new draft would be committing political suicide. Not only that, conscript labor is completely incompatible with the meme of the modern US military. There isn't a single member of the Joint Chiefs who would be happy with it. They would do everything in their power to dissuade Congress from instituting it again.

Besides, the draft has always been a Democrat thing, and it doesn't look like the Dems will regain control of the House and Senate any time soon.

As for Iran, no need to mount a full scale invasion to take out their nuke program. Lob a bunch of missiles at the nuke plant and problem solved. Or let the Israelis do it. No need at all for troops on the ground.

I won't disagree that it's a good idea to check out the link you provided. But there ain't gonna be no draft in 2005 if Bush is re-elected, and probably not even if Kerry is elected.

pinky


--------------------


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3191011 - 09/28/04 11:11 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Whichever party institutes a new draft would be committing political suicide...Besides, the draft has always been a Democrat thing,



But the Democratic party is still here and still very strong. Bush's lies about WMD and Iraq being a threat haven't seemed to hurt him too much except with true conservatives and non-warfare state (true) libertarians.

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
As for Iran, no need to mount a full scale invasion to take out their nuke program. Lob a bunch of missiles at the nuke plant and problem solved. Or let the Israelis do it. No need at all for troops on the ground.



No Pinky, I mean after a few missles are lobbed over there. There's no better way to promote a flood of Iranians (and others) and Iranian armaments to come into Iraq to help with the insurgency - the ground fighting WILL intensify. If we do not have more troops over there to prepare for that contingency...

Quote:

But there ain't gonna be no draft in 2005 if Bush is re-elected, and probably not even if Kerry is elected.



You have WAY more faith in ego bloated politicians than I am able to muster. How about after 2005? How far out are you willing to go with your prediction? What if the possible scenario I describe with Iran comes to pass?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3191013 - 09/28/04 11:12 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

if you watched fahrenheit 911..then you already know why an actual draft wont really be necessary.. the poverty draft is just as good...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (09/28/04 11:28 AM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3191035 - 09/28/04 11:24 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

The US military as a career (or even as an entry into the job market) has a lot of advantages. It doesn't surprise me that many folks from poor backgrounds choose to give it a shot.

My opinion is that rather than reinstitute the draft, if the military finds itself in need of more members they will instead relax some of the entry restrictions.

While what I say about the heads of the military resisting strongly conscript troops is true, when it gets right down to it is not the Joint Chiefs who make the decision, it is Congress. So I cannot completely rule out the possibility that if the Dems ever regain control of Congress and they have a Dem as president, that the draft may be reinstituted at some point in the future. I will say that if that time ever comes, the next administration would definitely be a Republican one. After the hideous national convulsion of the Sixties/early Seventies that was largely a response to the draft, the American people will vote them out at the first opportunity.

pinky


--------------------


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OfflineJameZTheNewbie
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phred]
    #3191047 - 09/28/04 11:28 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

pink wut if both want the draft when they bring up the idea. then what can we the people do. if suddenly the government decides this for us.

and dude dont even play that card the poor kids are being targeted. and i was in the city for the veterans meeting during the GOP convention. the troops are being treated like garbage. it isnt a great oppertunity. its their only oppertunity. its important to know the difference. they are backed into a corner.


peace


--------------------
Mice have feelings


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Offlinehound
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3191986 - 09/28/04 04:02 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
if you watched fahrenheit 911..then you already know why an actual draft wont really be necessary.. the poverty draft is just as good...




  Fahrenheit 911    :rolleyes:

  Poverty Draft      :rolleyes:

  You can call it what you want to but it aint no draft.


Edited by hound (09/28/04 04:03 PM)


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3191996 - 09/28/04 04:04 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
if you watched fahrenheit 911..then you already know why an actual draft wont really be necessary.. the poverty draft is just as good...



So now you are mad because the poor have an opportunity?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: JameZTheNewbie]
    #3192122 - 09/28/04 04:36 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

"but one day they will do it again and on that day who knows whos gunna have some gun...o i mean fun."

So your plan is to shoot the draft officer or something? Brilliant.

"there is no democrat or republicans there is a tv reality show and its all staged."

Well, in reality there is a pretty big difference in many of the ideals of each party. The politicians generally start out with lofty aspirations, but they eventually learn they need to hover around middle ground if they actually want to get any votes. In this election in particular, whoever wins is going to be taking a vastly different approach with their policies.

"the draft will come. in 2005 or whenever. "

Probably not. The draft was the main reason that support was lost for the war in Vietnam; it made the issue much more personal. It's a lot easier to support a war when you know there's no chance you or your loved ones will be forced into it.

Plus, americans aren't dying at the insanely high rates that they were in Vietnam. The problem isn't that the Iraqis are kicking the American's asses, it's that the Americans aren't kicking the Iraqi asses.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phluck]
    #3192188 - 09/28/04 04:54 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Well, in reality there is a pretty big difference in many of the ideals of each party.



In reality, you should not judge them by the differences of their rhetoric. Do you want to know the differences? Judge them on their actions. There isn't enough seperation between them to roll a dime through.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Evolving]
    #3192394 - 09/28/04 06:20 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Do you think a Gore administration would have started a war in Iraq?


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OfflineTao
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phluck]
    #3192424 - 09/28/04 06:28 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:


"the draft will come. in 2005 or whenever. "

Probably not. The draft was the main reason that support was lost for the war in Vietnam; it made the issue much more personal. It's a lot easier to support a war when you know there's no chance you or your loved ones will be forced into it.





Exactly, this is the real reason there won't be a draft--chickenhawks learned this lesson from vietnam: there is no faster way to make support for your war go through the ground than to have young men who are forced into the military against their will, die. When politicians can say justification rhetoric like "well he volunteered for his country and fought bravely, dying a noble death, yada yada yada" the death toll is less regarded.


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Tao]
    #3192490 - 09/28/04 06:41 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

The national guard will be deployed to Iraq.


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #3192517 - 09/28/04 06:48 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Don't pay much attention to the news? They've been there for some time now.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Evolving]
    #3192591 - 09/28/04 07:01 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Judge them on their actions. There isn't enough seperation between them to roll a dime through.

Well, if your political education is based entirely on Michael Moore's books, then yeah, this makes sense... and he does make very valid points. They really don't differ very much on many issues, and they each put a lot more effort into looking like they're standing up for the fundamental values they supposedly believe than actually standing up for them. However, their approaches differ greatly in many ways, and their rhetoric does have an enormous effect on their policy. Post 9/11, rhetoric is key. I can hardly imagine a democrat basically giving the finger to the UN and invading Iraq with little support from the world. Also, the approach the president takes in speaking to the nation has a huge effect on the way the issues he is addressing are viewed. Not to mention, if you look at the trends in the ways democrats vs republicans vote on various bills, there are obvious leanings in different directions.

In the 2000 election it may have made sense to think that whoever is elected doesn't really matter, but this time it certainly does.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: Phluck]
    #3192612 - 09/28/04 07:04 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Phluck writes:

In the 2000 election it may have made sense to think that whoever is elected doesn't really matter, but this time it certainly does.

Absolutely.

pinky


--------------------


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: How to Dodge the Draft? [Re: z@z.com]
    #3192967 - 09/28/04 08:10 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
if you watched fahrenheit 911..then you already know why an actual draft wont really be necessary.. the poverty draft is just as good...



So now you are mad because the poor have an opportunity?




becoming cannon-fodder for the neocon agenda is hardly an "opportunity"...

Quote:

You can call it what you want to but it aint no draft.




thats why its called the "poverty draft" and not just "the draft" :smirk:...and since it aint no draft..theres no danger that it will force some draftees into political activism to avoid an unnecessary neocon war...but if its the only "opportunity" available..then its a draft..not an opportunity...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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