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OfflineFrog
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What is your "sin du jour"
    #3158849 - 09/21/04 02:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Or in what way are you straying from your true self, or from what your ideals are?

I realize this could lead into a bunch of different topics, so I'm not going to try to make a bunch of statements in an attempt to catch them ahead of time.

But to give you a frame of reference, I will give you an example.

I started the practice of law with the idea that I would be the one honest, ethical attorney. Well, ...

"Father, I have sinned." Sigh.

Here it is, 5 years later, and I have engaged in several unethical acts lately. I am not going to go into what I did. It's enough to say that I did, that I caught myself sliding downward, and that I now feel embarrassed, but that I am now climbing back up and fixing the errors of my ways.

But what is it about this world that makes us do the things we do? I realize that nothing "makes" us do anything. But it's easy to get caught up in inequity (iniquity??). Is it money? I think money is the bottom line.

I have held myself above needing money up until now. But when someone comes to you with a proposition, and even if it is below your threshhold, do you continue to maintain your spiritual position and say "no thanks", or do you say, "This one time it's okay."

And even just saying the one time that it will be okay, how much easier is it to slide down with the next unethical proposition? The steps going down only lead down, right?

I think it starts slowly, and seeps into your soul, one step at a time, until the person that you thought you were no longer exists, unless you catch yourself.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Edited by Frog (09/21/04 03:02 AM)


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OfflineWhiteRussian
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" or... [Re: Frog]
    #3159458 - 09/21/04 01:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have no idea what you mean, but from what I can tell, your talking about making mistakes whenever your not in you higher self "mode", and I guess your asking why you make these mistakes......if thats your question then......you make thses mistakes because your vibrations or some shit in your head are low, and you let others influence your judgement (thats ok, its natural), but when they are high( your higher self) these comments, actions, that others suggest dont affect you at all, and you can make the right decisions.

Anything can affect you if you let it  :tongue:

be safe


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" [Re: Frog]
    #3160150 - 09/21/04 04:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

hehe, i was just going to start a thread that ressembles this one, even though IMO "sin" is kind of a strong word.. i guess you're one step ahead of me! :wink:

I think its a good idea for people to start talking about what they feel is straying from their true self.

For example, if you feel that you are stupid, and that you want to become intelligent, all your efforts towards being intelligent are just another degree of stupidity, because what is essential is to understand what stupidity is. I can always try and become intelligent, my stupidity will remain.

On the other side, if i notice and understand stupidity the way it shows up in my day to day life (like my attitude towards my neighbour, towards the poor, the rich, towards my business partners), then this awareness will provoke the "untanglement" of my stupidity.

Because spiritual integrity first comes with recognizing what is.


So people, please post what you feel your "sin" is, as Frog says. This is the first step in knowing yourself. You have to know what you are, not what you desire to be.


--------------------


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" [Re: exclusive58]
    #3160162 - 09/21/04 04:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'll start:

I think one of my major problems is dealing with people. I'm a shy guy, and I usually don't have full on conversations with people i don't know. And if i try, there's something that blocks me from being totally open to someone, and sometimes i start blushing.
I'm just too introverted i think, my mind is too much concerned with itself.

I have to liberate myself. But to be able to do this, I am going to have to be more aware, every second, as to how my ego reacts in situations that involve interactions. This is a hard process.

I think I already have a clue as to where to start looking for in such situations, which is preconception. I think my ego somehow already has its own opinion about the subject before talking to it. I'm not sure of this though, it is something I will have to work on.

There, that's me...



I have already posted this quote, but let me repeat myself:

"To change yourself is to change the world, because the "I" is at the same time the product and an integral part of the total process of human existence."
-Krishnamurti


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" [Re: Frog]
    #3160198 - 09/21/04 04:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

My sin of the day is almost gossiping. I'm trying not to, lately, but it can be really hard at college, when half of the talking you engage in with other students is about some teacher or student's shortcomings or heinous deeds.

I guess the reason I'm having a hard time gossiping is because I cannot say 'no' to people. Not when they're trying to stimulate conversation anyways. I'm learning to be more assertive, but it don't come easy.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineFrog
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" or... [Re: WhiteRussian]
    #3161484 - 09/21/04 08:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

WhiteRussian said:
I have no idea what you mean, but from what I can tell, your talking about making mistakes whenever your not in you higher self "mode", and I guess your asking why you make these mistakes......if thats your question then......you make thses mistakes because your vibrations or some shit in your head are low, and you let others influence your judgement (thats ok, its natural), but when they are high( your higher self) these comments, actions, that others suggest dont affect you at all, and you can make the right decisions.

Anything can affect you if you let it  :tongue:

be safe




I agree that I'm not in my "higher self mode" when I do things that are unethical, but it almost sounds like you're saying that I can blame something else for the choices I make.  Vibrations or not, we're responsible for our actions, right?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineFrog
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" [Re: exclusive58]
    #3161517 - 09/21/04 08:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
hehe, i was just going to start a thread that ressembles this one, even though IMO "sin" is kind of a strong word.. i guess you're one step ahead of me! :wink:




I agree that "sin" is a strong word.  I used it for fun.  And I was kind of expecting someone to say that there's no such thing as sin or doing wrong.  We only do what we do. 

Quote:

I think its a good idea for people to start talking about what they feel is straying from their true self.




This is more like what I'm talking about.  When we know right from wrong, whatever we think is right/wrong for us, what causes us to stray from right and do wrong? 

Quote:

On the other side, if i notice and understand stupidity the way it shows up in my day to day life (like my attitude towards my neighbour, towards the poor, the rich, towards my business partners), then this awareness will provoke the "untanglement" of my stupidity.




I think you will have to define "stupidity".  :grin:

Quote:

Because spiritual integrity first comes with recognizing what is.


So people, please post what you feel your "sin" is, as Frog says. This is the first step in knowing yourself. You have to know what you are, not what you desire to be.




I actually think this is a good idea.  It was kind of cleansing to admit on this thread that I had made decisions lately that I believe are unethical.  It's also a step toward understanding ourselves better....why we do what we do. 

I think I became weak about my resolve to acting ethically in ways to make money.  But I don't want to do that.  I already told the person that approached me with this idea that I couldn't do it again, and told him to take the most recent case to someone else.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineFrog
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" [Re: Frog]
    #3161541 - 09/21/04 08:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And based on what muse sick, exclusive, and Alan Stone wrote, wouldn't it make sense that the first step is becoming aware of our weaknesses, and the second step would be working on being the opposite of our weaknesses?

If we do that, eventually the difference it would make in our lives would catch up with us, for the better, and we would become different people.

I know that I don't want to fall into the habit of being unethical, because the converse would be true, there, too. I could see into the future that if I made a habit of acting unethically, I would ruin my reputation, and I would risk loss of my license.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" or... [Re: Frog]
    #3161557 - 09/21/04 08:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't fight back in life the way I used to. 5 years ago I was the most energetic young man continually evolving and...Nevermind it actually isn't my fault anyway, the situation is still very very hard but I would have liked to be a bit more like my old self, the paraglider student and skydiver wannabe. Some things in life change you dramatically and nothing, ffs, nothing is the same as before. You accept it and move on, yes anyway this and that sometimes I hurt friends without really meaning to do so. Also that I have not had the progress I expected in uni but again that is due to very hard surrounding enviroment.

I was stronger than I am now and that affects many situations many times. That is it I think.

Sorry if it is a bit out of subject...


--------------------


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" or... [Re: Shroomerious]
    #3161598 - 09/21/04 09:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

My reply was a bit like a psychanalysis monologue... :rolleyes: :drama:


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OfflineWhiteRussian
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" or... [Re: Frog]
    #3162218 - 09/21/04 10:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"I agree that I'm not in my "higher self mode" when I do things that are unethical, but it almost sounds like you're saying that I can blame something else for the choices I make. Vibrations or not, we're responsible for our actions, right?"

What leads you to have these low vibrations, is society, and a chain of events that occure that trigger you to loose yourself, in yourself lol...and your childhood, if you can understand the pattern when ever it started, you will realize, you were never like this to begin with, your environment made you the way you are, but if you take away the environment, whatever is left is YOU......what I did to overcome this is fix my ego, my ego is what made me react to certain situations, so if you change your egos reaction, things will deff improve,

be safe :wink:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" or... [Re: Shroomerious]
    #3163022 - 09/22/04 01:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerious said:
I don't fight back in life the way I used to. 5 years ago I was the most energetic young man continually evolving and...Nevermind it actually isn't my fault anyway, the situation is still very very hard but I would have liked to be a bit more like my old self, the paraglider student and skydiver wannabe. Some things in life change you dramatically and nothing, ffs, nothing is the same as before. You accept it and move on, yes anyway this and that sometimes I hurt friends without really meaning to do so. Also that I have not had the progress I expected in uni but again that is due to very hard surrounding enviroment.

I was stronger than I am now and that affects many situations many times. That is it I think.

Sorry if it is a bit out of subject...




No!  It was not a psychiatric monologue!  This suits the point perfectly! 

We all start off in "grace", so to speak.  We start out pure, imo.  And then shit happens.  We've all had shit happen, right?

I will match you here.  :grin:

When I was married, life was perfect.  Well, it was perfect until my ex started drinking and shit.  But I had a system and pattern and structure in place.  I loved my life.  My life was organized.  I went to school, I took care of my kids, I worked, I was a good wife, etc. 

It's been two years since the divorce started.  It's almost final.  But I can't blame on the divorce the way I am now, really.  Even though I am trying to be the person I used to be during the marriage, I stopped being as disciplined.  It stopped mattering as much, or something.

And I'm not so bad, now.  It's just that I've gotten lazy about myself.  I lost what was important to me, and so I let a part of me go. 

Maybe (and this is all conjecture) when shit happens we let a small part of ourselves go at a time, until it almost feels like it doesn't matter any more what we've become. 

Like right now.  I have been struggling with money issues since my divorce started.  The divorce impacted my business.  Until this last month, I have stayed above-board in my law practice.  I guess I became tired of being broke and doing it the hard way.  The easy way looked pretty good there for a minute or two. 

It's at this point that I either keep going, until inch by inch I've given away all my ethics and morality, or I say, "whoa," and stop and get back into the groove of being me...ethical and moral.

See, if I stop being ethical and moral in my law practice because of money, where does the line blur and I become unethical and immoral over other issues? 

We are strong people.  I would say that especially on this forum, we are strong people.  I've seen a lot of strong people here, even when posting about the bull shit in our lives.

I already knew that money wasn't important enough to blur the lines with regard to ANYTHING.  When did I suddenly decide that, in one small area, the lines could be blurred? 

I'm rambling.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineFrog
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" or... [Re: WhiteRussian]
    #3163027 - 09/22/04 01:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Okay, White Russian, I understand what you are saying now.  Very well said.  Thanks.  :smile:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: What is your "sin du jour" [Re: Frog]
    #3163108 - 09/22/04 01:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think we all have problems and things we regret.. who cares if your mistakes are seemingly bigger then everybody elses, I myself try to battle these feelings with no regret... regret is what causes you to even feel it to be a sin... look at how good your life is, what you DO have and have not messed up, and you will be surprised that you are still holding in there even when the water starts to boil over.. Life was never perfect even when you were married even though it may have seemed so at the time.. this is how it is.. you have caught yourself by posting this and seem to be wanting to to 'climb the ladder' so to say in the life process mentally


Edited by 2Experimental (09/22/04 02:20 AM)


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OfflineFrog
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" [Re: 2Experimental]
    #3163202 - 09/22/04 02:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, and thank you Experimental.  As you inferred, I just don't like that I succumbed to the easy, albeit unethical, way of trying to get ahead. 

And I don't surmise that my mistakes are bigger or less than anyone else's, although you are not saying that in your post.  I'm just moving on with a thought you provoked from me.

What may be a "sin" to me may be nothing to someone else.  And I don't say they should think that my sin should be their sin. 

I think it says in the bible, somewhere in Romans, that a sin to one man is not a sin to another man, but that we should be respectful of each other and what causes each other to sin. 

I don't have regret yet at the sins I have committed lately.  I haven't been "caught" yet.  :grin:

I am just feeling the tickle of having slipped beneath the standards that I have set for myself.

When I was sworn in as an attorney, it was by a judge who was also my professor in law school in a class titled "Religion and the Law."  I had great respect for him.  Additionally, he used some of my research and writings in his book. 

When I was sworn in, in his court room, he made a statement that I have abided by in the last 5 years until now:  Don't fall below the ... um, what's it called?  Sigh.  You know when you are a pilot, and there is a certain area that you pretend is the ground, and you agree that, even if it isn't really the ground, you won't go below it?  (I hate my memory.)

Well, I was advised to stay 1000 feet above that.  I took him seriously.  I took my own conscience seriously.  I hate that I flew below that level.  Until now, I've flown true.

I think regret can be a good thing.  It means that we have learned from a mistake and won't let the same mistake happen again.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" [Re: Frog]
    #3163280 - 09/22/04 02:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm lazy.



No really. I'm lazy. I have a chronic problem getting to work (and class, and anywhere else that has a set time I must be there by) on time. 5 minutes late? Everywhere, anywhere, all the time, consistantly.

Been like that since I was friggin 10 though. Trick is I just have to find a job that such a thing would be acceptable -- excepting the time I show up my work ethic's great, and I haven't found anything yet that I don't shine in.. except showing up on time. Doh.


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" or... [Re: Frog]
    #3164219 - 09/22/04 12:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

And I'm not so bad, now. It's just that I've gotten lazy about myself. I lost what was important to me, and so I let a part of me go.




Exactly what happened to me. But I am in the process of taking it back.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" [Re: Frog]
    #3165233 - 09/22/04 04:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

As an attourney you should be aware that you are often required to put a serious spin on an argument to properly represent your client. If you have found yourself engaging in "highly" unethical conduct then it is time to re-examine->make a commitment->and drive on. No looking back is required. You need only feel guilty once before you forgive yourself and move on.

As for myself I am a lazy procrastinator. I compensated for my laziness by scoring a job in the Information Technology field, so I can make money while sitting on my ass. I used to lie alot, (I still appreciate an especially big and creative lie) I screwed over people I knew (and liked) through sheer not giving a fuck, and I always made big plans that I was too lazy to see theough to the end. I got tired of doing these things so I quit.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: What is your "sin du jour" [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3165455 - 09/22/04 05:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Computer programmer --> late nights, late mornings, and you get to sit on your ass all of the time.


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Re: What is your "sin du jour" [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3166565 - 09/22/04 09:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i'm not sure its just about money..i think acceptence plays a big part..weather we realize it or not..if you do something your not sure you should be doing..but you are praised for it..i think people give in to that more than money, to be accepted is really what most people want in life. althou, you porobably are already accepted..you just don't know it.

but umm yes, thats my thougths :smile:


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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