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Offlinefreedomseeker
Crazy old lady!

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 219
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!????
    #3154025 - 09/19/04 10:59 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

So I have my handful of regulars that I pick to eat. I know they're safe and haven't killed me yet. I seem to recall these from when I lived in Eastern Washington and again at a friends place in Kitsap County Washington...but I'll be damned if I can be SURE that they are indeed AGARICUS BISPORUS.



Anyone?

Nice earthy smell. Gills pink on the young ones turning a warm brown when they get huge like this. A little beat up from my basket.


They were growing where the agaricus should have been. Under some conifers in a little grass...at the edge of an abandoned yard.

The veil is similar to the Lepotia Rhachodes in that it's somewhat moveable. Although, when I move it, it comes right off in my hand.

Here's a shot for size.

A younger one with the viel still attached. Nice and firm.

And the last shot to show the brown scales on it's cap.


I'd love to hear from some of you to see if you agree with my thoughts.

I go to my property tomorrow! I can't WAIT! I know that a day like today will have gotten my Chanterelle plots ready for my visit.

Hope you all had a rewarding weekend!

L


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
Mahatma Gandhi


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Offlinefreedomseeker
Crazy old lady!

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 219
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: freedomseeker]
    #3155159 - 09/20/04 12:04 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The spores are chocolate brown. Checked this morning. Is this the Portabello mushroom or do you think it's an Agaricus Augustus???

ALSO...no noticable bruising of the caps OR the stem.

Do you guys not like strangers or are you just all out gathering shrooms???

I got pounds of these and don't want to see them go to waste if they are the edibles I think they are.

Thanks.
L


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
Mahatma Gandhi


Edited by freedomseeker (09/20/04 12:05 PM)


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: freedomseeker]
    #3155195 - 09/20/04 12:16 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It's possible they are, although you'll need a microscope to be certain. One of the very important features of that species is that the basidia have only 2 spores instead of the 4 that most species have.

First off, to bruise an Agaricus, cut one in half vertically and scrape the inside with your knife edge hard enough to bruise the tissue. Color changes can take up to an hour to occur.

Next, we need to know what they smell like. The odor is usually strongest where the cap and stem join. If you can't detect any odor, try crushing the stem base with your fingertips ans sniffing there.

Happy mushrooming!


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Offlinefreedomseeker
Crazy old lady!

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 219
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #3158181 - 09/21/04 12:06 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The smell, as I said earlier, is really earthy. A pleasant earthy, woodsy...like a nummy mushroom should smell. Nothing strong or vile smelling about it. I have read and researched that there is a very similar looking mushroom to the bisporus or augustus that has a strong phenol smell. This smells just plain good. BUT...I am still paranoid.

No microscope. Bummer too because I had my hands on a really high tech one and got rid of it because it just cost too much to repair.

As to the bruising...it's looking like initially yellow would be the best description and then darkening to a reddish brown after some length of time has passed. Although...it's nothing striking in the beginning.

Does that all make sense to you ToxicMan?

Thanks for the "Happy Mushrooming" word. Went to my 12 acres today and got a nice load of Chanterelles. I left the babies so they could grow and will go back on the weekend.

L


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
Mahatma Gandhi


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Offlinefreedomseeker
Crazy old lady!

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 219
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: freedomseeker]
    #3159482 - 09/21/04 01:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Update on the bruising.

When I first cut the meat nothing changed.

When I started reefing on it with my knife...a pale yellow started to appear.

After 20 minutes or so...the bruises turned reddish brown.

This morning...the bruises are chocolate brown.

Does that help?

Still smells nummy!

L


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
Mahatma Gandhi


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: freedomseeker]
    #3159626 - 09/21/04 02:14 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Your odor description and bruising are normal for Agaricus bisporus, but there are lots of kinds of Agaricus and identifying them species is difficult.

The main ones to avoid bruise yellow, especially at the base of the stem, and have an unpleasant odor variously described as being like phenol, library paste, ink, or metallic.

Any time you decide to eat a new wild mushroom species, save some of them, uncooked, in a bag in your refrigerator. Eat only a small amount (less than a teaspoon), and wait overnight to see if you get sick. If you need to go to an emergency room, take the specimens you saved in the refrigerator with you. If you don't get sick overnight then enjoy your mushrooms. Incidentally, this all applies even to common, easily identifiable choice edible species. Lots of people have sensitivites to certain species and the only way to find out is to actually eat them.

Happy mushrooming!


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Offlinefreedomseeker
Crazy old lady!

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 219
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #3159761 - 09/21/04 02:44 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks! I think I'll try a tiny bit to see how it goes. I have a feeling they're fine...but.....oh crud...is a mushroom worth the price???

How good a microscope should I have to invest in to use it for spores? I don't see anytime in the future where my interest is gonna wain...so I might as well get more eductated about the whole thing.

Speaking of being educated. KOH is mentioned when identifying mushrooms. I looked it up and it's a chemical that one site said I could get from a pharmacist. Is that how you'd get it???

Also...the smell of PHENOL. Would that be somehting like tar???

Thanks for your help ToxicMan...I truely appreciate your input!

L


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
Mahatma Gandhi


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: freedomseeker]
    #3165196 - 09/22/04 04:24 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I see you've developed a good, healthy bit of paranoia on eating the first little bit. That's a good thing - it's one of the biggest things helping to keep you from being poisoned. Be certain of the features you're using to identify your mushrooms, and you can keep from eating anything you shouldn't. I've eaten well over 50 species (I stopped counting about then) without ever being poisoned, so just stay paranoid and be very sure of your IDs before eating anything.

I purchased a cheap student microscope. Expect to pay at least a couple hundred US$ for one worth using. It needs to have an oil immersion objective and a substage light and condenser. For most examination of spores I get by at about 400x. For surface details on the spores you need to use oil immersion and magnifications up around 1000x and up. For examination of cystidia and basidia I usually use a magnification of about 100x.

KOH is used (dissolved in water) as a mounting medium. I use plain water most of the time. Incidentally, the mycologists in Europe prefer to use Ammonium Hydroxide solutions instead of KOH, which is the preference of American mycologists.

The odor of Phenol is difficult to describe. Another name for Phenol is Carbolic Acid. It is the main active ingredient in Campho-Phenique, which you can buy at the grocery store. Another common use for Phenol is in sore throat sprays. Phenol is the ingredient in them that makes your throat go numb. The odor of Phenol is sort of like menthol, but not really. Try checking out products that contain it to get a sense of the odor.

The main thing with a "phenolic" odor in Agaricus is that the odor is unpleasant. In general, any bad smelling Agaricus should not be eaten.

Happy mushrooming!


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OfflineSherms
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Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 14
Loc: Snohomish, Wa
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: freedomseeker]
    #3165276 - 09/22/04 04:45 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Im new here and new to mushrooms hunting and I was just wondering how exactly do you find the spore print. Like when can you tell when the spores come out.


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: Sherms]
    #3165725 - 09/22/04 06:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Just cut off the cap, put it gill side down on white paper, and wait a few hours. The spore print is what forms on the paper. If the cap is opened up (and the partial veil has broken, if any) then spores are almost certainly being released by the millions. The main thing that will interfere is if the mushroom dries out.

Happy mushrooming!


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Offlinefreedomseeker
Crazy old lady!

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 219
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #3166785 - 09/22/04 10:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I also put half the cap over a dark piece of paper and half over a white. That way if the spores are white they will show up.

It's a cool process.

One more thing I do is turn a mixing bowl upside down and plop it ove the mushroom and paper. It just keeps things confined. Don't know if it particularly helps with anything.

Microscope...AAARGH! Big boot kicking myself in the butt. Ya know the miocroscope I didn't want to have repaired??? Well, it was a heavy duty one a friend gave me that he got from a University he teaches at. It needed repair and I didn't want to fork over the money. I just delivered it to the dump last week. Now I wish I'd put out the money for the repairs.

Life. You keep learning and learning and learning. *shakining head

As to Ammonium Hydrdoxide. Is that household ammonia??? Or am I thinking wrong? I read somewhere that a drop of amonia (can't remember if that was diluted or not though.) would give the color change that helps with mushroom identification.

I'm gonna call some of my old homeschooling friends to see if they still have their microscopes and want to sell them. NOw I just need me some money!

L


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
Mahatma Gandhi


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: freedomseeker]
    #3167541 - 09/23/04 12:21 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

While doing a spore print with dark paper will help you see if there's a pale spore print, the professionals are emphatic that the spore print color can be determined accurately *only* is done on white paper. So make sure you judge the color from the white part.

A bowl is a good way to keep the humidity up. In Colorado, where I live, it's very dry so I will use a one gallon ziplock bag. They're large enough to fit an entire sheet of typing paper into if you fold about a half inch in at the long end.

Ammonia and KOH are both also used for chemical testing, but most mushrooms don't show useful changes. Household ammonia is strong enough to use for the color changes.

I know what you mean about the microscope. I was offered an electron microscope several years back and didn't have a place to put it. Now and then I give myself a kick again for passing up that opportunity.

Happy mushrooming!


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Offlinefreedomseeker
Crazy old lady!

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 219
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #3169588 - 09/23/04 12:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I know what you mean about the microscope. I was offered an electron microscope several years back and didn't have a place to put it. Now and then I give myself a kick again for passing up that opportunity.





:rolleyes:  Nice to know I'm not alone in the boot kicking!

Didn't know about the white paper deal.  Cool to know.  I just did a spore print last night on only white paper because I was lazy.  White spores COULD be seen...especially with the use of my loupe.

So as to the use of KOH or amonia for identification purposes.  Bag the idea?  Not that useful in determining a species?

Believe it or not...as much of a gypsy as I've been in my lifetime...I have NEVER been to Colorado!  I didn't realize that it was dry even in the FALL!  Yowza!  Living in the desert for 3 years gave me the shakes as far as mushrooming went.  So dry and sandy that it was hard to come by much in the way of fungi. 

One medicinal grew in the sand by the Columbia River and an abundance of Coprinus comatus (Shaggy Mane) in the Fall.  Other than that, I had to drive to the ski area to find my fix...and even then the best find was Lyphollum Decastes...which...although tasty and good in stir fries...don't compare to Chanterelles!

Never used the plastic bag method...but it sound good to me.  Usually, this time of year, I have a collection of odd fungi all over the kitchen counter.  Could be worse I suppose!

L


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
Mahatma Gandhi


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: freedomseeker]
    #3170066 - 09/23/04 03:12 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

KOH is useful for a few groups. Agaricus are a good example. KOH seems to bring out yellow staining in cases where bruising the flesh seems inconclusive. A buck or two of it is pretty much a lifetime supply.

Most of Colorado is semiarid. Denver averages about 14 inches of rain a year. Trees exist on the plains only alongside water or where people water them. So mushroom hunting is in the mountains (the plains are in the rain shadow) or along streams on the plains. This year we had rain, but it would rain for a day then nothing for two weeks. Several times. So every time the mushrooms started to come up it would promptly dry out and the mushrooms would quit. The last three years here have been drought. Two years ago was the driest year ever recorded here (only 7 inches of rain all year in Denver). If you get rain, be happy.

Happy mushrooming!


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Offlinefreedomseeker
Crazy old lady!

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 219
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Agaricus Bisporus....me thinks!!!???? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #3170523 - 09/23/04 05:18 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yep! I suppose I could spring for a jug of ammonia eh??? If nothing else...I cold make stink bombs with it.

Even without the rainfall I'm sure that Colorado is a beautiful place.

If you ever want to visit Washington state, let me know...I have a big house and you would be welcome.

L


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
Mahatma Gandhi


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