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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
The prevailing idiocy here...
    #3152535 - 09/19/04 12:27 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:mrt:

...needs some deconstruction.. yeah I've let things get outta hand by not posting regularly for a few months ay ay ay. This evening I'm going to take apaaaaaaarrt.. :chainsaw:

"We all create our own reality!!!"

Woah woah easy with that one boys, you're taking it a little too far.. It's an intelligent enough statement capable of being used on some levels, which I'll kindly lay down for you delusionoid bots shortly, but let me come out and say it straight up:
(remember this now)
No matter how much you believe that you can fly, you will never be able to will yourself off the ground.

Swami doesn't even have to ask for someone to visit Vegas and demonstrate this ability 'cause man.. just not gonna happen. I hope you guys are clever enough to not protest that statement, cause if you are, then I fear you've fallen into one of the traps of having a low-level understanding known as the pit of delusion.

*ahem pictures to keep your short attention spans satisfied:

:samurai:

OK so here's how you create your own reality. I know this blasted fool who lives on the street in a silly reality he's created he calls "social activism." To supplement his egomaniacal mission to singlehandedly save the world he's rid himself of most material possessions and gets by on handouts. One of his basic points is that "most people" are really weird and living an "unnatural" lie (a point I wouldn't hurry to argue against). But here's an example of him spinning a reality around himself that allows him to rationalize the continuation of his hopeless and naive mission:

One day .. oh  wait picture..

:rockets:

One day he was sitting on the street just like a bum with a cardboard sign but intsead of asking for money he was asking for nothing. He'd say "Excuse me miss, but could you spare nothing at all today?" And then the person would walk by ignoring him, or they'd be confused and give him a weird look or in some cases they'd give him money. Whatever the reaction he'd look surprised and wonder why he was getting such a weird reaction. Well DUH you ask a weird question you get a weird answer! SIMPLE! You create your own reality, fool!

Take a look at marijuana. The questions the DEA ask create the environment they need to further their prohibitionist agenda.

"Does marijuana impair the brain?"
"Does marijuana impair the kidneys?"
"Does marijuana lower the sperm count?"
"Is marijuana addictive?"
"Does marijuana lead to harder drugs?"
"Does marijuana cause college drop outs?"

The picture you paint probing the issue with these questions is vastly different from the picture if you approached it from the point of view of marijuana being a medicine:

"Does marijuana open the lungs to more oxygen?"
"Does marijuana shrink cancerous tumours?"
"Does marijuana increase appetites in chemotherapy patients?"
"Does marijuana open the awareness to new levels"
and so on.

:sleepingcow: :sniper:

The person allowing the answers from the second group of questions is going to have a much different picture and therefore opinion of marijuana. Therefore by being selective and responsible with the information we consume we can create easier, healthier lives for ourselves. BUT (this is a key point) YOUR OPINION ON MARIJUANA IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE MARIJUANA ITSELF!!! It's own qualities are set in stone. That's all there is to it. You create reality in that you adjust your relationship with the plant, but you do not alter the plant, sorry. Believing that you can fly is not going to allow you to tread air, because it can't be done. Creating a reality for yourself where things like that are possible serve to change your outlook by increasing your optimism and giving you something to look forward to when you're enlightened and flying all over the place, but this reality you choose (the one where reality is malleable) is not going to let you conquer those pesky natural laws we as material entities are subject to. :stoned:


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InvisibleTeragon
Noddy

Registered: 02/21/01
Posts: 36,253
Loc: Lost in the Patterns
Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3152589 - 09/19/04 12:42 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I fly in my....ahem, "dreams."

I have no need to argue against you.

Two ideas: Self-fulfillment and consensus-reality.

Enjoy life.


--------------------
need that cash to feed them jones.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3152602 - 09/19/04 12:45 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Much of our external reality is a reflection of our internal reality.

How is it possible that humans killed in excess of 100 million fellow humans in the twentieth century alone? Humans inflicting pain of such magnitude on one another is beyond anything you can imagine. And that's not taking into account the mental, emotional and physical violence, the torture, pain, and cruelty they continue to inflict on each other as well as on other sentient beings on a daily basis.

Do they act this way because they are in touch with their natural state, the joy of life within? Of course not. Only people who are in a deeply negative state, who feel very bad indeed, would create such a reality as a reflection of how they feel.

"Your world is exactly what you are." --Vernon Howard.




--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleClean
the lense
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Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3152626 - 09/19/04 12:52 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

you're might be taking it too literally.

the statement "you create your own reality" i take to mean that only you are responsible for how you feel. like when people say "that person made me really mad". the person may be an idiot but no, you made yourself mad.

when people declare "how it is" they are creating their own reality but that does not mean that there is not a larger reality for which we are all responsible.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Clean]
    #3152810 - 09/19/04 01:48 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Max,

You are definetely taking a lot of talk here way to literally. This is in part and by large a philosophy forum.

Creating your own reality can simply mean that you create it by virtue of your re-action or responce-ability to what happens beyond your control. No one takes it to mean they can do anything they want too.

NOBODY here thinks they can LITERALLY fly like a bird while awake.

If you think most of this stuff is literal, then if I were you I would reexamine where the idiocy is coming from here or in the least, re-examine your ability to judge when someone is being literal or metamorphical or philosophical.

Look again where you are. The sign on the door says "Spirituality, Philosophy and Religion."

Before a castle is built on the ground, it is philosophically first built in the sky and literally in the realms of ones creative imagination. Concrete structures, creation and manifestion start with ideas and ideals and dreams of what can be.

When one is in touch with thier inner power, they can realise it and achieve a sense of fullfillment through what they can construct and build.

When one is out of touch with thier core power, at best, they can only get a false sense of their creative power by destroying things.

That's a weak character trait man. I wouldn't flaunt it unless you choose to be seen as a weak person.

In my book, the only time it's okay to take something down, is when you have something even better to replace it with. That's when destruction serves and only then. Otherwise, you leave people with nothing. Only one who has nothing takes joy in seeing others without anything. That was philosophical for being spiritually devoid the record.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Clean]
    #3152824 - 09/19/04 01:54 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

There's always a bit of a problem when you make a thread attacking an idea without associating it with one of its holders. They have the option of not making an appearance and leaving with their ideas intact and capable of fueling their delusion.


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OfflineElfWizard
Wizard
Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 70
Loc: The middle,Outside,nowher...
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Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3152831 - 09/19/04 01:55 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

LOL Thank you I enjoyed that really  :grin:




:heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Fear is the Mind Killer"
Frank Herbert's Dune

"Shoot straight, conserve ammo and never cut a deal with a dragon"
Shadowrun street Proverb

To announce there must be no critisism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile but is morally treasonous to the american public
Pres. Theodore Roosevelt


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3152861 - 09/19/04 02:04 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

NOBODY here thinks they can LITERALLY fly like a bird while awake.

Cool I suggest not taking what I say so literally. When I criticize "the fools" for believing they can fly, I'm actually using the example as a place from which a principle can be brought out of "the sky" and placed in an analogous relationship with a more grounded situation to promote healthy things like better understanding. I'd like to better flesh out the borders that contain easily inflated and misunderstood ideas like "You create your own reality"

so.. read harder gettinjiggy and..

In conclusion I'd like to invite anybody to argue that their ability to believe can bring about dramatic overnight success (like huge skill jumps) in flying (WARNING DON'T TAKE LITERALLY), surfing, skiing, dancing, doing the splits, absorbing bullets or whatever.


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OfflineElfWizard
Wizard
Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 70
Loc: The middle,Outside,nowher...
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3152878 - 09/19/04 02:13 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

nothing is "overnight" the world is round "idiot" we will fly "idiot" we will fly to the moon "idiot" we will sail under the sea "idiot" I would rather use the word "Dreamer"  for what are dreams but things that have yet to come true post your view show them what is wrong with the ideas but name calling is childish and shows a lack of judgment I use the examples to show how people in the past who have dreamed impossible dreams did in the end make there dreams come true and we take them as fact today
:smirk:

:grin:



:heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Fear is the Mind Killer"
Frank Herbert's Dune

"Shoot straight, conserve ammo and never cut a deal with a dragon"
Shadowrun street Proverb

To announce there must be no critisism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile but is morally treasonous to the american public
Pres. Theodore Roosevelt


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3152880 - 09/19/04 02:14 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I understand what you are saying. No doubt, I prefer for my pie in the sky to be actually reachable and eatible myself or why gaze at it. Then again, we have eternity, why not? I do prefer to decide for myself what I beleive I can reach or digest. "Metaphorically speaking". Maybe my arm is longer and stomache larger, metaphorcally speaking.

If you want to set yourself up as the judge for others of what pies are reachable and which arn't. Knock your socks off. 

there is an acient Chinese Proverb that says

One man should not interupt with what is impossible while another man is doing it.

There use to be some whacky ass ideas floatin around out there like wireless long distance tele communication. Can you imagine that? The fools, what a waste of time beleiving in such poposterous things.

Mix,  :cheers:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (09/19/04 02:36 AM)


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OfflineTodcasil
rogue DMT elf
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Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3152949 - 09/19/04 02:51 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

just yesterday i saw myself flying, and i thought, "how absurd, here i am, yet there i go!"


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3152963 - 09/19/04 02:57 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

There's a world of difference between being called an idiot for an idea you have which is based upon scientific principals, and an idea you have which is based upon.. well, nothing but your imagination.

radio wasn't imagined and then -poof-!
airplanes weren't imagined and then -poof-!
submarines weren't imagined and then -poof-!
a spherical world wasn't imagined and then -poof-!
a heliocentric solar system wasn't imagined and then -poof-!

they all had scientific proof to back them up.
they were called idiots largely by those too wrapped up in their spirituality.

that's the difference. the scientific world is always accepting something new -- so long as it can be proven.
the spiritual world is opposed to something new, even if it can be proven.

what that means is if you can scientifically prove and explain how you can fly under brayn-powar, or how you can move things with your mind, or how some sort of hive-mind collective conciousness pervades us... science will accept it. the lack of any proof is what dooms such things, and they still are only kept alive by belief, not proof.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3153008 - 09/19/04 03:13 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah i mean, it all depends on what you are willing to consider valid experience i guess

My belief is that reality, for the individual, is perception and thought alone.

Now we know that we each create thought, i simply say on some level we are all creating our perception as well (again as individuals)

Personally ive flown many times, yes in dreams. Its an awesome experience. Now either you can call that 'just a dream' or you can accept the fact that for me that experience was every bit as real as any other experience in my life.

On another level, i simply advocate realizing that our realities are self created as a nescessary belief for effective functioning in the real world, for self fufillment.

What i mean is, when you believe that your reality is self created, you are forced to take responsibility for every part of your existance. Instead of saying 'damn government keeping me down, i cant get a break im so poor' (externalizing the problem) you say 'ok im creating a poverty situation for myself, its time to create a wealth situation' and then you take the appropriate action.

Likewise, if you are unhealthy (weak, scrawny whatever) someone who DOESNT believe that we create our own reality says 'damn genetics, i cant help it, or im too lazy to work out' he says 'ok im creating the situation of bad health, i can now create the experience of good health'

this same logic can be applied to almost any situation. As soon as you start saying You dont create your own reality, you imply that things in that reality our beyond your control, and that is a disempowering belief.

Basically when i say 'you create your own reality' im saying take responsibilty for your own failures and successes, dont keep the realms of desire and reality seperate.

Something i want to say is that A. our life is made up of experiences (perceptual and internal) our ability to create our own experience as humans is UNLIMITED. It is possible for me to fly, to masturbate with 2 cocks at once, to see in 360 vision to float, manifest apples in the air... i have done all these things in a way that is just as real as any other experience i have ever had

When people say 'youll never be able to fly' what they mean is 'youll never be able to fly in a situation where you cant fly'

as in when you are in a lower state of conciousness (regular 3rd dimensional, waking life), your ability to control your reality is limited. When you are in higher states it is unlimited.

the fact is , i can fly, i have flown, and i loved it. And ill do it again!

why not?


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


Edited by Moonshoe (09/19/04 03:22 AM)


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3153051 - 09/19/04 03:53 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

There use to be some whacky ass ideas floatin around out there like wireless long distance tele communication. Can you imagine that? The fools, what a waste of time beleiving in such poposterous things.

You're trying to get in the last word by twisting the topic of this debate. Weak. The point is that wireless telecommunication networks weren't manifested by some guy saying "Hey, I believe in this" and then WHAM there they are, so that's not at all the topic here. Didn't I already ask you to read hardeR yo?


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InvisibleTeragon
Noddy

Registered: 02/21/01
Posts: 36,253
Loc: Lost in the Patterns
Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3153068 - 09/19/04 11:04 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

airplanes weren't imagined and then -poof-!
submarines weren't imagined and then -poof-!
a spherical world wasn't imagined and then -poof-!
a heliocentric solar system wasn't imagined and then -poof-!



And the award goes to: Mushmonkey! For some of the most ignorant statements I've heard today! :handth: :handth: :handth:


--------------------
need that cash to feed them jones.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3153081 - 09/19/04 11:14 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Theres much outside consensual physical reality. The essence of one's experience is their own creation, whether or not that implies affecting the shared dream that is this place. Perception can be consciously decided, you can imagine flying with perfect precision, who cares if others can't see it, thus making you feel special.

But seriously now, we have so much more control over ourselves than we often think. But that depends on what you define 'you' and 'we' as.


--------------------



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InvisibleTeragon
Noddy

Registered: 02/21/01
Posts: 36,253
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Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3153113 - 09/19/04 11:26 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Disclaimer:
I am not saying wireless was willed into existence- sure the potential was there beforehand and we hadn't harnessed it........but...(hehe)

You can agree with me on the fact that the thought had to come before the product right? I mean someone had to think of the idea before they put it to use. So the thoughts did come first....


--------------------
need that cash to feed them jones.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3153194 - 09/19/04 02:23 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Teragon, you said all of what I was going to in reply of recent comments!  :thumbup:

Mix and mush, I understand what your problem is. You are under some assumption that much of what is discussed here hasn't been researched, expiremented with through experience and is not being used in a practical and applicable way by the beleiver to benefit their lives.

In many posts, these practical applications and reasons of benefit are being shared and I don't know if you can't see it, just don't want too or simply are not ready too yet.

Why don't you both start asking people what the practical applications and benefits are for "pie in the sky" beleifs? Maybe you will start understanding others and pick up some useful tools for making like richer, more fullfilling with added self empowerment.

If in the next month, I don't see either of you soing this, then I can only choose to beleive that all of this is hot air being blown same as you are accusing others of doing.

A lot of this stuff you refer to as being idiocy is just the practical application of philosophies. It is energy being applied to effect experience. The proof is only ever going to be found in experiences themselves. If you choose not to create the experience to see for yourself how some things are possible then thats your problem.

BTW, when I metophorically  reffer to flying here I am speaking of consciousness. I am speaking of removing your feet (mind and heart) from the concrete  (beleifs) they have been set in. I am reffering to the removal of ones head from ones ass, because its dark in there and the only thing one can see is there own shit, and maybe a cancerous polyp.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Teragon]
    #3153434 - 09/19/04 08:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

"You can agree with me on the fact that the thought had to come before the product right? I mean someone had to think of the idea before they put it to use. So the thoughts did come first.... "


Sure, the idea came first. The idea, based upon things actually experienced and learned in actual reality that actually exist.

"Gee.. I bet if we do this to that thing that gives out those.. invisible wave things that we can detect with that other thing.. we might be able to get a signal going like we've got working for the telegraph lines.. just using these.. electromagnetic waves instead of wires!"

That's not willing something into existence. That's using your brain to create something new.


You say you've flown? Great, so you've flown in your imagination. That's totally unremarkable, and something most people have done. It's also not flying in the real waking world, it's not flying where I can see your feet lift off the ground and you buzz around my head.

That would be real. As real as a radio signal -- something that others can experience.

You can't manifest an apple in the air and eat it. No -- maybe you can, but all you're doing is writing a book in your mind. Your real body is still hungry. You can't manifest an apple in the air for ME to eat, either. That would be real, not imaginary.


If what is being stated is metaphorical.. there would need to be some effort taken to make such things much clearly a metaphor. Even the metaphors of Kafka are much clearer than the "pie-in-the-sky" beliefs stated here, and Kafka was off his fucking rocker. The crazy things stated here are not stated as metaphors but as every-day concrete facts, which they are not; when it is pointed out that they are not, the result is a selfish lashing out of the "Nu-uh stupidhead!" responces.

There is a very definate and clear line between reality and fantasy that must be maintained.

If I smack you in the face with a baseball bat in a dream, you'll wake up and be fine, if maybe a little shaken.
If I smack you in the face with a baseball bat in the real world, the best you could hope for would be a very, very long dream.

Nothing you can do in a dream would make that hit to your face real, and nothing you can do in reality would make that hit to your face a dream.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: The prevailing idiocy here... [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3153447 - 09/19/04 08:14 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

"You say you've flown? Great, so you've flown in your imagination. That's totally unremarkable, and something most people have done. It's also not flying in the real waking world, it's not flying where I can see your feet lift off the ground and you buzz around my head."

Whats the difference? If you can manifest the experience onto yourself, and it is entirely the same, does others validating it mean anything different for you? Wanting to affect the physical reality (that is the overlap of our individualized perceptions, namely the "senses") is only to in turn to validate the experience. This is due to the conditioning, which you've shown by the nature of your post, that imagination is unreal - "reality" is real. We can't be "dreamers", we have to "act", otherwise it's a "waste" of time. This comes from the notion of validating your own existence through the experience of others. This is not the case, as everything is just perception being fed into your consciousness, nothing is more real or fake than anything else. When you realize this fully and make use of it, you truly will be able to manifest your own existence.


--------------------



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