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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Quick Incubation Question [Re: wds]
    #3133038 - 09/14/04 02:02 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

>could someone explain how flipping the jars helps?

There are several explanations. The substrate sometimes gets packed to close against the glass at the bottom. Slap your jars down hard upside down and it will create a little space so the myc can run across the (new) top.

>when should i do it?

If your jars seem to stall and have trouble colonizing the last bit of the bottom.

-FF

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OfflineZeroArmy27
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Re: Quick Incubation Question [Re: wds]
    #3133044 - 09/14/04 02:06 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I think I have this, but if I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

Flipping the jars works by expelling the CO2 from the jar. The basic principle is that CO2 is heavier than O2, so by flipping the jar, the heavier CO2 will leave the jar. The myc needs O2 and expells CO2.

As for when, do it when your jar is having problems colonizing... either when it's colonizing the bottom, or if it stalls.

Hope I helped, and good luck!

EDIT : FF -
Couldn't smacking it before you birth it break the cake into pieces or have a piece stick to the bottom while the rest falls? Even if it doesn't, won't that just pack the substrate harder in the jar? That's my assumption as to how the extra room is created, further compaction of the cake. Wouldn't the further compation just hinder the process?

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OfflineSpudz76
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Re: Quick Incubation Question [Re: ZeroArmy27]
    #3133126 - 09/14/04 03:15 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ZeroArmy27 said:
Couldn't smacking it before you birth it break the cake into pieces or have a piece stick to the bottom while the rest falls? Even if it doesn't, won't that just pack the substrate harder in the jar? That's my assumption as to how the extra room is created, further compaction of the cake. Wouldn't the further compation just hinder the process?



Well we were talking of doing this when there was no colonization in the lower parts, thus verm stuck to the sides and bottom, and mycelium chunks would not be.  The whack will slide the colonized section of the cake upwards (in relativity to the normal upright jar position), probably compacting the air gap verm, and the mycelium wad barely will compact at all (it's rather solid).  Also since the jar is tapered the mycelium wad will have a slight air gap up the sides if it is slid upward which facilitates getting air from the bottom to come up by the lid (otherwise the mycelium wad is acting lots like a cork).  So then you have moist verm in the bottom, part of which is stuck to the walls because of water tension and such holding it there, then a air gap, then some more verm which was not close enough to the walls to stick when smacked.  So then hopefully the mycelium will colonize up the walls and also permeate the loose verm, at which point you can flip it back over if you want and give it another rap back downward for the last day or two just so the eventual "top" of your cake doesn't have a weird bubble in it - now that the mycelium has permeated the area it will colonize thickly.

And beating up mycelium is fine, in some cases it can make it pause for a little bit and it will have to recover, or it will bruise if it's in open air, but you really can't hurt it beyond its own repair unless you actually cause cellular damage which would be pretty difficult to do on a whole cake scale.  Also any pieces which do break away from the cake will be rejoined if they come back into contact (such as a crumble and case, the crumbled cake grows a flat layer because it grows back together).

Good questions, though. :smile:


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Quick Incubation Question [Re: Spudz76]
    #3134089 - 09/14/04 11:36 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks Spudz, that's exactly what I would have said. The cake does sometimes seperate, but it doesn't make much difference. Sometimes the bottom bit never colonizes, but you can just leave that bit in the jar, since the mycelium will run through the gap and give you 100% colonization (at least of the part that comes out). Having a pit in the center of a cake doesn't seem to hurt it at all, and often the rough surface makes for better pinning on the top. Also the cakes usually shrink a bit so flipping and smacking them usually doesn't have to compact the material at all.


-FF

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OfflineZeroArmy27
I didn't go to work for a month.

Registered: 08/31/04
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Re: Quick Incubation Question [Re: fastfred]
    #3134180 - 09/14/04 12:03 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Cool, just a few things that popped into my head. I guess I can quit being so paranoid.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Quick Incubation Question [Re: ZeroArmy27]
    #3135641 - 09/14/04 05:49 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

BTW it isn't the co2 that you are expelling, remember during substrate runs you want as high a co2 level as possible 10,000+ PPM. It is just giving it room to breath and grow as sometimes gas exchange is poor at the bottoms of jars especially overly wet jars which flipping aids by allowing the excess moisture to be absorbed by the dry verm layer. :wink: GL guys

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OfflineMoneyAddyct
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Re: Quick Incubation Question [Re: wds]
    #3149010 - 09/17/04 03:50 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

So verm. all the way up to the top of the jar and a piece of Tyvek on top of that?

Edited by MoneyAddyct (09/17/04 03:50 PM)

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