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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Iraq - what should happen now?
    #3144745 - 09/16/04 07:21 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

There are obviously a lot of diverse opinions on Iraq. In this
forum some people think the invasion was justified, some think it
was a mistake, and some think it was a cold and calculated plan by
a select elite to make money or spread influence.

The legitimacy of the whole conflict is not worth discussing as
much as what should happen next. The fact of the matter is is that
Saddam is gone, U.S. troops are there, and an insurgency is raging.

What do you want to happen in Iraq? What do you foresee as the
most preferrable future for Iraq(short term and long term)? What
do you think WILL happen in Iraq in the future?


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3144764 - 09/16/04 07:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I want the "insurgents" to win.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: Zahid]
    #3144768 - 09/16/04 07:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Then what?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3144776 - 09/16/04 07:30 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The mujahideen would establish Shariah and Muslims would rule themselves - the U.S. would then get the message to just stay out of our business.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: Zahid]
    #3144783 - 09/16/04 07:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

That sure would suck for the Iraqi women.


--------------------


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3144792 - 09/16/04 07:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

First off, the burqa is not Shariah. In Afghanistan it was Pashtu culture, in Saudi Arabia it is another cultural tradition to its past and present forms of developed Wahhabism. Women would be required to wear a head scarve/a hijab. That's all.

Second, I thought you were Pro-staying-out-of-Muslim-business?


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: Zahid]
    #3144793 - 09/16/04 07:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)


The mujahideen would establish Shariah and Muslims would rule
themselves - the U.S. would then get the message to just stay out of
our business.

The U.S. government won't let that happen. If a hostile Islamic
theocracy gained control of the world's second largest oil reserves,
then that would be a massive threat. Imagine a regime with all of
that wealth bent on destroying America and spreading their poisonous
ideology. That is not acceptable.

Also, whereever Islamic law is established, the country turns into
an oppressive shithole(it would be even worse than what Iraq is now).


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3144801 - 09/16/04 07:39 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, and it would mean the invasion was a TOTAL waste for the US.

I think we need to send more troops and take a more aggressive stance towards insurgents. The Coalition is in a tough spot Iraqis blame them for not providing enough security and stopping attacks at the same time they insist the US tie its hands dealing with people like Al Sadr and the militants in Fallujah. I think that security and stopping the terrorists is more important. At this stage bowing to local interests and diplomatic pressures will create bigger problems later on. If the US had been more hard line from the get go we wouldn't still be messing around with guys like Al Sadr. By making compromises so early on we show weakness and threaten the process that the compromises are supposed to help.

You've got to lay down the law first, and then you can develop a positive relationship. I think we failed at the former, but there may be time to remedy the situation.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: Zahid]
    #3144802 - 09/16/04 07:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
First off, the burqa is not Shariah. In Afghanistan it was Pashtu culture, in Saudi Arabia it is another cultural tradition to its past and present forms of developed Wahhabism. Women would be required to wear a head scarve/a hijab. That's all.

Second, I thought you were Pro-staying-out-of-Muslim-business?



I am. I'm just saying I'd feel sorry for the women who would become second-class citizens.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3144803 - 09/16/04 07:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The U.S. government won't let that happen. If a hostile Islamic
theocracy gained control of the world's second largest oil reserves,
then that would be a massive threat. Imagine a regime with all of
that wealth bent on destroying America and spreading their poisonous
ideology. That is not acceptable.


Which is why Muslims are killing your troops because your government cant resist putting their nose in our business. It's Arab oil, for devout Muslims to control. Not Americans or its Allawi puppet.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3144806 - 09/16/04 07:41 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

Zahid said:
First off, the burqa is not Shariah. In Afghanistan it was Pashtu culture, in Saudi Arabia it is another cultural tradition to its past and present forms of developed Wahhabism. Women would be required to wear a head scarve/a hijab. That's all.

Second, I thought you were Pro-staying-out-of-Muslim-business?



I am. I'm just saying I'd feel sorry for the women who would become second-class citizens.




Why would they become second class citizens? Because of hijab? Do you even know what women think of the hijab? Staying out of our business not only means our politics, but extends to our religion.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: Zahid]
    #3144821 - 09/16/04 07:45 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

Zahid said:
First off, the burqa is not Shariah. In Afghanistan it was Pashtu culture, in Saudi Arabia it is another cultural tradition to its past and present forms of developed Wahhabism. Women would be required to wear a head scarve/a hijab. That's all.

Second, I thought you were Pro-staying-out-of-Muslim-business?



I am. I'm just saying I'd feel sorry for the women who would become second-class citizens.




Why would they become second class citizens? Because of hijab? Do you even know what women think of the hijab? Staying out of our business not only means out politics, but extends to our religion.



Staying out of your business means not initiating force against them. I'm still allowed to have opinions. BTW, I'm not even talking about the hijab(some Muslim countries don't even require it). Just find me a Muslim country with Sharia law in which women have equal rights under that law.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3144835 - 09/16/04 07:48 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

Zahid said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

Zahid said:
First off, the burqa is not Shariah. In Afghanistan it was Pashtu culture, in Saudi Arabia it is another cultural tradition to its past and present forms of developed Wahhabism. Women would be required to wear a head scarve/a hijab. That's all.

Second, I thought you were Pro-staying-out-of-Muslim-business?



I am. I'm just saying I'd feel sorry for the women who would become second-class citizens.




Why would they become second class citizens? Because of hijab? Do you even know what women think of the hijab? Staying out of our business not only means out politics, but extends to our religion.



Staying out of your business means not initiating force against them. I'm still allowed to have opinions. BTW, I'm not even talking about the hijab(some Muslim countries don't even require it). Just find me a Muslim country with Sharia law in which women have equal rights under that law.




There is not a single country to this day that has Shariah, Shariah hasn't existed since 1924.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: Zahid]
    #3144841 - 09/16/04 07:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Then what makes you so certain that the insurgents would implement it?


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: Zahid]
    #3144842 - 09/16/04 07:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

in an islamic theocracy, are men and women (or muslims and non-muslims) treated equally under the law or not?


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3144860 - 09/16/04 07:57 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Iraqi mujahideen would implement it, but they wouldn't run it, they would maintain it - they would either return to their day jobs or join the Iraqi army. And according to the process of establishing Shariah (by Shariah) a people must elect a caliph. The current caliph is Metyn Kaplan, from Turkey, who was elected in 1978 by elections in every Muslim country, including Iraq. According to the '1924 Charter' Metyn Kaplan would be an interim calip and the Iraqis could either decide on another caliph from their own country, or they can re-elect Kaplan.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: ]
    #3144865 - 09/16/04 07:59 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
in an islamic theocracy, are men and women (or muslims and non-muslims) treated equally under the law or not?




Yes, they are.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: Zahid]
    #3144869 - 09/16/04 08:00 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You haven't answered my question. If Shariah hasn't existed since 1924, what makes you so certain that the mujahideen would implent it?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: Zahid]
    #3144872 - 09/16/04 08:00 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
Quote:

mushmaster said:
in an islamic theocracy, are men and women (or muslims and non-muslims) treated equally under the law or not?




Yes, they are.



So Christians and Jews would not have to pay a special tax from which the Muslims would not?


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Iraq - what should happen now? [Re: Zahid]
    #3144879 - 09/16/04 08:02 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, they are.

could you explain what islamic law is? i understand that islam, unlike other major religions, has a very defined political component to it. what do islamic texts say about the role of the state?


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