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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Jury duty and libertarianism
    #3143474 - 09/16/04 02:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thecornking's thread reminded me of one which I had been intending to make for a while. As a libertarian, I find it rather appalling that the government can force a peaceful citizen, upon threat of imprisonment, to appear at court when they have done nothing wrong and have nothing to do with any of the cases being heard. But I wonder what the alternative is. Should we have professional jurors? What alternatives are available which would not involve the initiation of force?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Jury duty and libertarianism [Re: silversoul7]
    #3143497 - 09/16/04 02:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think if you had a lot less laws, you'd have a lot less need for jurors and wouldn't have a problem finding volunteers.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Jury duty and libertarianism [Re: Evolving]
    #3143598 - 09/16/04 03:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I've always thought that professional jurors should be given a try...
or at least there should be requirements like possessing a HS diploma or something like that...
however, this wouldnt always allow for certain members of the community to be tried by an actual jury of their "peers"
but the fact is that some potential jurors simply cannot grasp the legal consepts or do not possess the cognitave ability to judge another person...
and jury selection (called voir dire) can only eliminate so many of the forcefully summoned canditates


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If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Jury duty and libertarianism [Re: MrBump]
    #3143605 - 09/16/04 03:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Oh yeah, BTW... the $5 a day they pay you in juror's fees is fuking BS!
it doesnt even cover the price to park in the courthouse car hold...


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If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Jury duty and libertarianism [Re: MrBump]
    #3143623 - 09/16/04 03:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

thecornking said:
Oh yeah, BTW... the $5 a day they pay you in juror's fees is fuking BS!
it doesnt even cover the price to park in the courthouse car hold...



I don't know what it's like in your area, but where I'm from, they give you a parking permit with your jury summons.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Jury duty and libertarianism [Re: silversoul7]
    #3143649 - 09/16/04 03:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

its a little weird here...the free jurors lot is about 4 to 5 blocks away from the courthouse complex, they have to pay if they want to park in the primo-garage lot underneath the Courthouse...
but i think you know what im getting at, as a juror you have to potentially give up a full day's wages for practically nothing...


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If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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Invisibleretread
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Re: Jury duty and libertarianism [Re: silversoul7]
    #3144152 - 09/16/04 04:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Not specifically in relation to just this thread or topic, but it seems that people equate libertarianism with living by yourself in the deep dark woods. Part of the reason that America is such a powerful great nation is that we, to some degree, work together. If you don't want to pay taxes, fine by me, but you can't be given any of the privledges or protections that paying taxes affords people. If you don't want to do your part to enjoy a judicial system that uses juries, then thats fine, but when you get caught breaking the law, you don't get a trial. If someone hurts you, they don't get a trial. Libertarianism, to me, doesn't equate to a big mass of land comprised of individuals who can't even work together for a "common good" (I hate saying those words:)


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Jury duty and libertarianism [Re: silversoul7]
    #3144160 - 09/16/04 04:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

id love to get jury duty, on any drug related case....id vote not guilty no matter what


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Jury duty and libertarianism [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3144212 - 09/16/04 05:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
id love to get jury duty, on any drug related case....id vote not guilty no matter what




And you, my friend, under stand what a jury is all about!

People need to realize that the law is on trial as much as the defendant! A jury summons is your opportunity to make a difference. Vote not to convict some one if you think the law is wrong! If it happens enough times the law becomes void because they can not get people to convict on it. It sets a persistent in the court system!

It is called "Jury Nullification"

Here is a link to more info!

http://www.greenmac.com/eagle/ISSUES/ISSUE23-9/07JuryNullification.html


We the people control the laws!

That is why I as a libertarian jump at the opportunity to be on a jury!


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Jury duty and libertarianism [Re: Cyber]
    #3144411 - 09/16/04 05:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Cyber said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
id love to get jury duty, on any drug related case....id vote not guilty no matter what




And you, my friend, under stand what a jury is all about!

kingofthething would never make it through the screening process (unfortunatley)
well, i guess he could lie :smirk:to get on the jury...
thanks , tho, for that link explaining jury nullification--  a great explaination  regarding its power in the law..
i still agree with silversoul-- jury "duty" is the equivalant of a military draft, and it should be on a volunteer basis.


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If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Jury duty and libertarianism [Re: MrBump]
    #3144455 - 09/16/04 05:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, I only hope that some day I get called to Jury duty. So far I have not been called once in over 18 years (of being able to be called to jury duty)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Jury duty and libertarianism [Re: Cyber]
    #3144477 - 09/16/04 06:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I've been called twice, but never made it on the jury. Neither case involved drugs.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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