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Invisiblemjshroomer
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In Response to Most Potent Mushroom
    #313810 - 05/10/01 10:34 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Since it appears to be impossible to respond to Hunter Thompsons post about which is the most potent shroom I would like to start this new thread.

First Psilocybe cyanescens happens to be the mopst potent mushroom on the planet.

This is in accordance with the chemical analysis performed by Gartz, Ott and Bigwood, Tjakko Stijve and others.

The second most potent psecies is Copelandia cambodgeniensis and the other species Copelandia in that genus followed by P. azurescens, P. subaeruginosa, P. austrlaiana, P. eucalypta, P. tasmaniana and Psilocybe baeocystis and others.

This is for Dimitri411,

Psilocybe cubensis whether it comes from Hawkseye or anyone else is not the most potent mushroom species. In fact it is one of the weakest next to P. pelliculosa and a few others.

Psilocybe cubensis requires a dosage of from 3-5 dried grams to be equal to a Mazatec Indian Dosage (Ott, 1993)

Or one to one and a half fresh ounces of material. That is a lot of weight to eat.

In Seattle, we have bioassayed a dried gram of baby Psilocybe cyanescens mushrooms. A most potent strain.
all 8 persons reported a rewarding visual experience.
I'll explain this to you as easy as possible.

1. If you have a fresh ounce of Psilocybe cyanescens and there are only say five large mushrooms in the bag, then you would tend to get from 4-6 people high off of that bag of Psilocybe cyanescens.

Now, on the other hand, say your fresh bag of Psilocybe cyanescens had 20 to 30 fresh small specimens in the bag, then it has been observered that you could get anywhere from 10 to 15 people off on those smaller shrooms by only eating 2 to 4 small babys.

ANd believe me when I say they are potent.

Also P. cyanescens holds its potency for many years and many other collectors have complained that Psilocybe azurescens loses a lot of potency in drying after three to six months.

That is if someone can keep them around for that long.

I noticed in several papers by Ott, Bigwood and even Guzman mentioning that various collections of some of the common species such as P. cyanescens and P. baeocystis stored for a few years had lost much of the potency.

However I would like to point out that analysis in the 1970s showed a collection of liberty caps from London collected in 1851 were just as potent as a collection gathered in Oregon and Washington in the middle 1970s.

Have a shroomy day,

mj

Have a shroomy day and may all of your days be shroomy.



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OfflineWoodsman
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: mjshroomer]
    #314416 - 05/11/01 01:30 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

MJ:

Thanks for the comparative analysis.

Have found P. cyanescens numerous times over the years & they're my favorite. Not only strong, but very smooth without a lot of "body noise." Always found the experience serene & joyful, in contrast to P. semilanceata which were often jittery, grotesque, & scary. Also they keep well if thoroughly dried, then sealed in airtight plastic & frozen

P. baeocystis are also nice, less visual but perhaps even more contemplative.

P. cubensis are usually pleasant (may vary with strain?) but of course weaker-by-weight so it takes more.

Pan. subb. (at least the local strain) are weaker than cubes by weight, speedy little bastards in small doses (good for frisbee games, long hikes or bike rides), similar to liberty caps in the weird/ evil dept. on the couple of occasions I've managed to gag down enough of 'em to get seriously "out there."

Have never yet found P. azurescens or Copelandia species, but sure would like to. Guess I need to travel more . . .



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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: Woodsman]
    #314558 - 05/11/01 09:12 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Hi Woodsman,

Funny but I found P. cyanescens to be very electrical and P. semilanceata to be calm, cartoony, Tranquil and magical as if stepping through the looking glass.

I agree with your assessment of Pan subs. They are speedy , espeacially in tea form. Although i stil lthink they are the same potency as cubes by dry weight.

As for P. stuntzii they tend to let me dwell on past things in my life and the baeocystis are also kind of electrical but they lose about half of their potency in drying.

The P. pelliculosas seem to be very mild and probably the weakest of all thhe common species.

Conocybe cyanoppus takes about 50 to 75 very small 1 to 3 inch high shrooms weighing in at about 1/3 fresh ounce for a very religious experience.

Inocybe aeruginascens is very euphoric to the body. The Gymnoipilus subpurpuratus is also electric in action and speedy.

Have a shroomy day.

I still personally prefer P. semilanceata to all the others but I think that is because it is the speices I first ate and so I am it slave.

mj

P.s.

I will this morning be posting my Lawn baeocystis and Wood Chip Baeocystis images. And again I am out of web-space. Need to remove a few more art photos from my other gallery. My 1500 Picture pictorial is far from complete.

Have a shroomy day and may all of your days be shroomy.



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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: Woodsman]
    #314695 - 05/11/01 12:49 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

All this variations on effects are very intriguing.

Hey M.J. , could you post that paper about the variations of chemicals in examined specimens by Beug and Bigwood ?
i didn't find it at the DD when you told me ,and now it's down !
thanks!




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Offlinedrunkgoat
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: Hermes_br]
    #314706 - 05/11/01 12:57 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

are Psilocybe cyanescens harder to grow than other species?

There are 3 types of people in this world: Those who can count, and those who can not.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: Hermes_br]
    #314984 - 05/11/01 06:07 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

High Hermes,

give me about a week to locate it. for some reason it is missing from my computer. I would have to retype it all ocver again. I know I was sure I scanned one of the beug & Bigwood or vise-versa papers earlier on analysis.

Remind me in three or four days,

Mj

Am pretty busy right now.

Mj

Have a shroomy day and may all of your days be shroomy.



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OfflineWoodsman
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: mjshroomer]
    #315298 - 05/12/01 01:09 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Hi again MJ:

Interesting that different people (metabolisms?) have different experiences of any given species. In the absence of a truly scientific framework for comparison (given the overriding prohibitionist mentality of our culture), there still might be room for an "anecdotal" collection of subjective experiences, to see what threads of consistency do or do not emerge.

You're very fortunate to have had the opportunity to investigate some of the rarer species. I've only once found some blue-footed Conocybes--maybe 2 dozen of them--and they were at best a threshold dose giving a slight floaty feeling. Have only once found Gymnopilus aeruginosus, chomped down damn near half a pound of those bitter sumbitches (with lots of chili sauce) & experienced similar minor elation & euphoria.

Never found any blue-foot Inocybes. Do they grow in Oregon? Are they truly NOT poisonous?

Oh well, here's looking forward to next Fall & hoping for some good Cyanescens or Baeocystis finds!






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InvisiblePrellgott
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: mjshroomer]
    #315410 - 05/12/01 04:21 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Heyy MJ..thx for the info

but now that yoiur sharing that suff ;)

Can you post the spilcoin/psilocybin rations of the coplandia species? (to find the one with the most psilocybin )

and you say theeres a great difference in how long the shrooms stay potent..how do you think of the copelandias??

thanx

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: Prellgott]
    #315482 - 05/12/01 08:46 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Hi Prellgott,

Yes there are differences in the Copelandia potencies.

Stijve in a paper on variations in Copelandia cyanescens found that the Hawaiian collections of Copelandia cyanescens were very high in psilocybine and low in psilocine while the same species from Australia were very high in psilocine and very low in psilocybine.

He attributed it to the high acidic content of the Hawaiian volcanic soil. Who really knows.

Anyway in another related analysis, we determined that Copelandia cambodgeniensis from Hawain were more potent than the other three species of Copelandia found in the Hawaiian archipelago.

I think I have some of that analysis at my site under the Hawaiian species article presented there.

I'll check later and if not I'll post it there. I have a html problem at that article and have not been able to insert the images between the tables. when I post them they do not show up. Something in the code and since I use a master code to do each page, that is the limitation of my html knowledge. But every few months someone stops by and helps me change a few things. Right now the site at MJ's Shroom world is in the process of posting over 1500 psilocybian mushroom photographs to make it the largest shroom guide on the web and in the world.

Today I will now ftp the pages for Panaeolus subbalteatus. I still have more than 150 cubensis images to add.

have a shroomy day. The shroom site is now close to 65 megabytes and growing.

I have had to removed many art images to fix the shroom site and soon will need to buy nore bytes of space.

bye,

mj

Have a shroomy day and may all of your days be shroomy.



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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: Prellgott]
    #315490 - 05/12/01 09:01 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Hi Again Prellgott,

about the poitency of Copelandia species.

There is a secret way to collect this mushroom and for that matter all shroooms.

It involves not squeezing the stem very much when lifting them out of the ground.

I haven't yet gotten around to posting all of the Copelandia images at my site, but will when I have time.

Also after picking the shrooms (Copelandia spp.) they should either be placed in a cardboard box or a paper bag, and when carrring the bag, do not shake the bag all over the area. Carry the bag as if it were a boiling hot cup of tea or coffee so as not to shake the contents of the bag.

Then the shrooms should immediately be layed out single file and handled as little as possible to avoid damage to the tissue and cause unecessary osidation and turning blue in colr. You do not want to damage the shroom.

A lot of people pick them and they turn blue black and rot real easy. Or they put them in plastic baggies which cause moisture and humidity and this in turn rots the shrooms real fast, sometimes looking almost like inky caps because they get so blue black in the baggies from lack of oxygen. So the faster you dry this mushroom and cause no damage to the stems, the faster it will dry and retain a lot of potency.

In Hawaii, many people have a hard time preserving this species and thus the blue-hiney methods come to mind. However this is a waste of honey and a waste of shrooms and bugs and oither living creatures soon invest in the mead for a small colony of critters, which one may or may not notice when they eat the homney-mead shrooms.

And the less oxiidation the more potent the collection will be.

Many lose a lot of the potency in this species by improperly collecting and drying it.

Have a shroomy day,

Mj

P.s.,

In a controlled experiment, with four volunteer subjects, Dr. Tjakko Stijve of Nestles found that one pooled gram of the Hawaiian collections gave each of the four individuals a most rewarding experience. Yet in Hawaii, 7 to 10 fresh mushrooms are considered an average dose but some users have taken from fifty to 200 or more fresh shrooms to reach the same high as someone who eats one dried gram of the material. It seems that both Copelandia mushrooms and Panaeolus mushrooms build a very fast high tolerance with repeated yweekly usage.

mjshroomer

P.s. I will try to get that Hawaiian Article in order sometime this next week.

mj

Have a shroomy day and may all of your days be shroomy.



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InvisiblePrellgott
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: mjshroomer]
    #315517 - 05/12/01 10:23 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

thanx MJ..good to hear about the not squesing them :)
(i normally cut the shrooms in small oieces so that they dry faster)

how about tea of coplandias?
do they loose their potency that way?
(with cubies I made tea of freash ones(with vitamin c as antioxdant) and put it in the freezer and it stays very very potent :))

MJ do you have some spare prints of coplandia cambodgensis? In need to stock all trains I'm interested in, cause they'll ban spores in germany soon :)...

thanx again
your prelli


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InvisibleDirtmaster
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: mjshroomer]
    #315519 - 05/12/01 10:26 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

shit mj, am i correct in understanding you to say that 4 people can get effects of 1 gram of this shroom?!?

that's only 0.25 grams each! or did you mean 1 gram each?



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InvisiblePrellgott
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: Dirtmaster]
    #315532 - 05/12/01 10:53 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I think he meant of I gramm each...but I was pretty high from not even a half gramm cyans grown by kosmicKitchen..yeah boys..If you run across them in europe (they are often on goa festivals..they sell quite a potent mushroom tea, too ;)) or if you vist them in esnchede (NL)....get yourself some of thoose ?little suckers..or grow your own .

peace

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: Prellgott]
    #315579 - 05/12/01 12:04 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Dirtmaster,

One dried gram of Copelandia cyanescens is a good trip for most who only eat shrooms 3 or 4 times a year.

If you were to eat those on a weekly basis by the 16th week or later you will be consuming 3 to 4 times that amount and upwards.

Now I did say some strains of baby Psilocybe cyanescens, a different species species and genus than Copelandia, yes some strains of baby shrooms can yield from 4 to 8 doses or more per dried gram.

Have a good day and

Prellgott, cuting the shrooms with scissors only need be used for shrooms in woodchips and gardens not for liberty caps or P. stuntzii. If they are iun the grass than just pick them.

I personally never freeze mushrooms since this damges the cellss and causes eventual ootency lose.

And if your electricity goes out and you have a large collection of edible shrooms in your freezer than you will lose everything,.

ALso A tea is all right sometimes when large amounts of shrooms need to be consumed but let me remind you that psilocine is water soluable and psilocybine is not and you will lose half of the high when in the form of a tea.

YEs youwill get off intstantly in ten minutes like a rocket on liftoff but the high will only last a few hours and then you are kinda pot high for a while.

When eaten fresh and I always take 20 to 30 minutes to consume a dose (whether it is 1 shroom, ten shrooms or forty shrooms). This allows the chemicals to come on slowly in your body and causes no shock to your central nerfvous system and you will find that the high last longer, four hours or so and yo will notice no figittyness or interference wiith your thought process.

ALso this is how the Mazatec and other Indians in Oaxaca and elsewhere in Mexico consume their shrooms. Over a short period of time to allow the come on to began gradually and build up.

ANd another reminder to all. They do this in the quite of their home, away form lights and outside interfernce to their voyages.

They do it with only a minimum amount of light, a candle or two. This allows the intese rich colorful kalaidascopic images to contract and exp[and in front of your eyes without having to close them. Remember that the visuals are part of what the mushroom experience is all about. That is why tholusands of users never see any visuals becasue of low dosage (most users only take a gram or so) and bright daylight settings or surfings as many do in Austrlia, New Zealand, Bali and Hawaii.

mj

mj

Have a shroomy day and may all of your days be shroomy.



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Anonymous

Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: mjshroomer]
    #315889 - 05/12/01 08:21 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

MJ I prefer teas when I shroom. I don't know about the three hour theory. Yes it hits you like a train in about 10-20 minutes, but in my experience it lasts equally long as when I eat them. I like it to hit real fast. The whole point of it to me is to shock the nervous system out of it's normalcy. my trips still last 5- 10 hours depending on the amount consumed. I prefer this to the inconsistency of eating them. My best visual trips have been on TEAS.



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OfflineWoodsman
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: ]
    #315967 - 05/12/01 11:41 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Well what I like to do is drink the tea (or better yet a vodka extraction, dissolves psilocybin & psilocin alike), then swallow the dregs. That way you know you get everything. I like to blast off like rocket boy, then stay out there for the duration.



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InvisiblePrellgott
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: Prellgott]
    #316112 - 05/13/01 07:37 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

wasn't it the other way around psilocybin being highly water solutable and Psliocine not (at least that's what it says at erowid..
anyway..I allways use sole alkohol when making tea..it gets qite good..:)

are coplandias higher in psilocine or Psliocybin?

and MJ..you don't freeze your dry shrooms, how do you store them then?



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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: Prellgott]
    #316623 - 05/14/01 01:52 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

HI PRellgott,

Yes that was a typo, Psilocybine is water soluable.

AS for Copelandia's, again I caution you to remember that Stijve of Nestles found the Hawaiian Copelandia cyanescens to be high in psilocybine and the Australian ones the exact opposite. They were high in Psilocine.

AS I mentioned we do not know why this difference.

But then again this was only one noticible difference in the two locations for this species.

They are ususally high in Psilocybine thus being very potent when fresh.

$ to 12 mushrooms depending on their size.

Mj

No I personally do not recoommend freezing them

If you go to my site read my field guide section on Preparation and drying of shrooms.

I have used this method for over 25 years and it works well for me.
\
Of course, most users could never save their shroms for more than a few weeks or a month before their stash has been depleated.

mj

Have a shroomy day and may all of your days be shroomy.



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OfflineKREVET
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: mjshroomer]
    #316870 - 05/14/01 01:36 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Hi MJ,
i would like to ask you what kind of mushrooms gives normally a more comfartable high. I mean the mushrooms with a high psilocine content or the ones with a high psilocybine content?



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OfflineKREVET
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Re: In Response to Most Potent Mushroom [Re: mjshroomer]
    #316871 - 05/14/01 01:37 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Hi MJ,
i would like to ask you what kinds of mushrooms gives normally a more comfartable high. I mean the mushrooms with a high psilocine content or the ones with a high psilocybine content?



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