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 Humidity
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 Re: super potent shrooms are possible.  [Re: gray1]
#312378 - 05/08/01 02:13 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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I am not sure if it matters when you add the L-Tryptophan (NOT 5-HTP) to casings or substrate, mabey both of them need to be explored.
Anyone that says just grow more shrooms instead of gowing fewer more potent ones keep reading.
Many growers do not have the time or the space to grow large quanties of mushrooms. This is where more potency would be benificial. Also more potent species of mushrooms are often more complicated and harder to grow. This prevents many on the mini-growers from growing them. If we can just add a couple of pills of something to our substrates that will increase potency of mushrooms why not do it.
After reading some books on secondary metabolite over production there is no doubt in my mind that increasing the potency of magic mushrooms can be accomplished.
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"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
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Bleuboxo
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: Humidity]
#312631 - 05/08/01 07:37 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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hmmm...im about to case 3 containers ( 3ft. x 3ft ) and they are going to get more than one pill of 5-HTP each. 3 other casings will not get any 5-htp...i will post results as soon as my fourth trip during two weeks. i want to try two of the B+ without them being cased with 5-HTP twice a week. Then i will try the others that were cased...small amounts and the exact same on the dot with a digital scale.
" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"
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" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"
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oDin
Registered: 08/12/99
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 Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: Bleuboxo]
#312715 - 05/08/01 09:22 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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hello, hmmm been awhile since i posted in adv cult. n e way a shroomerite requested i post about my experiences with cubies and 5-htp. In my personal opinion yes it works, they were stronger, but my methods were not scientific by any means. when i first started growing shrooms i wanted to creat the baddest damn mushrooms i could. so i read, i read the shoomery....everything..lycaeum..pretty much anything i could get ahold of. i read this article http://www.shroomery.org/findorgrowthem.php?View=docs&doc=72 and being a pharmacist i knew that 5-htp was structurally similiar to tryptamines and easily obtained. the article indicated 0.100 gm of trptamine per pf container would probably be best so that is how much 5-htp i added per pf container. i had tablets at 1st but found that capsules were much easier to work with for dissolution reasons. i would simply mix the capsules i would need for the amount of jars into the water that i mixed the subtrate up with. everything else was all pf technique...i used a pressure cooker @ proper psi for a 1/2 hour. thats about it. they were noticeably more potent then the shrooms without from our experience. it even made a few people swear off shrooms for good. the high seemed kinda different from a normal shroom high but not in a bad way. eat them wet if u can cause if i remember correctly it increases psilocin levels much more than psilocybin level...this is what i was told anyway. and psilocin isnt near as stable as psilocybin. once i stated that it may just be good genetics and the differences were due to our own perceptions and normal variences that occur from batch to batch. i dont add it anymore...unsure why actually...but i kinda got tired of elaborate setups and all the time spent on it....i just want to trip now and then and as stated the shrooms are plenty strong on their own.
i have been using this method as of late http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_cultivation17.shtml and again it seems to produce a potent shroom and is VERY hassle free, i dont even air them until picking time. this is a kind of stress imo and may be why they seem to be more potent then normal pf tech for me. the yeild is less but i just make more jars and there is no terriaum, which is a plus due to my small home. peace dudes.
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 Hermes_br
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Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 546
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: ShroomAngel]
#312744 - 05/08/01 10:04 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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here is a piece from :
http://users.lycaeum.org/~elfstone/comments.html
" The other benefit of the mushroom is that one is left with a sense of well being that remains with one over the course of the following weeks. I have even used subthreshold doses as a sleep inducing, dream enhancing agent, and general psychophysical tonic. Taking a small pinch of the mushroom before retiring has been noted by a number of my colleagues to provide an effective antidepressant effect. This is a topic that is wide open for research and suggests some SSRI activity on the part of psilocybin/psilocin."
Edited by Hermes_br (12/12/04 06:01 AM)
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Explorer
Stranger
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 Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: Hermes_br]
#312960 - 05/09/01 08:09 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have had it confirmed that adding 100 mg of dimethyltryptamine to a half-pint jar made the shrooms 4-6 times more potent. The mushrooms contain some kind of hydroxylase that converts N. N. DMT to psilocin (not psilocybin). As the Human body converts psilocybin to psilocin anyway, this results in super potent shrooms. And, as Dr. Shulgin so rightly says: "DMT is everywhere". And it's free. Well it's free except for the price of some lighter fluid, drain cleaner and vinegar. I have a huge patch of phalaris arundinacea in my back garden. This is all part of the beautiful chemical synergy that seems to exist between the human body and the chemicals that have we've been using for millennia.
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gray1
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: Explorer]
#312966 - 05/09/01 08:43 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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nice post. so you added 100mg of material that you extracted to the cake mixture after you sterilized it? doing so beforehand would probably destroy the structure of dmt, left my merck index at home, i'll check the melting point tonight.
did you estimate the amount or weigh it? what kind of scale?
on what basis do you think that they were stronger?
thanks in advance for oyur reply
c12h16n24ohdmt
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Humidity
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: Bleuboxo]
#313131 - 05/09/01 12:59 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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In case some of you did not see this here is the pathway to psilocin & psilocybin:
L-tryptophan --> tryptamine
tryptamine --> N-methyltryptamine
N-methyltryptamine --> N,N-dimethyltryptamine
N,N-dimethyltryptamine --> psilocin & psilocybin
I took this out of a book so it is accurate. I also found it on the web here. It has already been proven that adding tryptamine to a substrate will increase the amount of psilocybin in the mushrooms. However most people do not have access to tryptamine since it is a fedarally monitored substance.
So instead of adding tryptamine adding one of the other precursors might have a positive effect on psilocybin production in the mushrooms. L-Tryptophan (NOT 5-HTP Tryptophan) seem like it would be a good choice. Adding DMT ( N,N-dimethyltryptamine ) might be worth a try as well. This as many of you know is obtained many diffent ways. Phlaris grass whould probibly be the easiest.
Also adding something called a cofactor to the substrate might be benifical, a cofactor helps speed a chemical reaction. When Tryptophan is converted to Tryptamine; Pyridoxal phosphate is a cofactor of the reaction. Pyridoxal phosphate can be traced back to Pryridoxine (vitamin B6).
Now we can all sit here and create theorys of what to add and when to add it and how much to add. But the only way we will ever know is if someone does some experiments to show if something works of doesn't work.
5-HTP Tryptophan is NOT the same as L-Tryptophan
5-HTP Tryptophan is NOT the same as L-Tryptophan
5-HTP Tryptophan is NOT the same as L-Tryptophan
5-HTP Tryptophan is not on the metabolic pathway to psilocybin and will not increase potency.
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"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
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gray1
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: Humidity]
#313153 - 05/09/01 01:31 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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your redundancy is unnecessary, no one ever suggested that 5-HTP = L-Tryptophan. it is apparent from the name that they differ in a hydroxyl group at the fifth carbon atom (5 hydroxy tryptophan)
while 5-THP is not directly on the metabolic pathway to psilocin/psilocybin that you pointed out, it is quite possible that there is a natural biosynthetic pathway in the mushrooms in scrutiny that converts 5-HTP to L-tryptophan an vice versa (there is certainly such a pathway in humans) or even possibly to another intermediate along the pathway.
it seems strange to me that you want to discount this molecule as a potential potentiator without scientific documetation that rules out conversion to one of the intermediates/precursors. if you have such, please provide it.
if you propose that DMT could serve to increase psilocybin/psilocin content, which it may very well do, and which is not a direct intermediate on the pathway you provided, you must consider 5-HTP under the same presumption.
this post is not meant to be deragatory, negative in any, or a flame, just want to stimulate intellectual conversation on the subject, without this post becoming the disasters that many seem to come around here.
c12h16n24ohdmt
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gray1
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: gray1]
#313156 - 05/09/01 01:37 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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whoa, nice chart, i've been looking for something along those lines.
so after regarding this chart, it's obvious that 5-HTP would only be useful if first converted to tryptophan, not through any other intermediates, but i don't think that this should discount it as a possible substrate enhancer, after all, it is much more readily available, and the conversion between these two forms almost certainly exists.
from what i can tell, this chart isn't specific to one organism, but more towards the possible transformations of tryptophan, is that your take?
anymore interesting links like this one that you'd like to share?
gray1
c12h16n24ohdmt
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Bleuboxo
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: gray1]
#313173 - 05/09/01 02:03 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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shit! i guess im still going to try the 5-HTP on my casings just to see what happens.
" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"
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" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"
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Humidity
Mad Scientist
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: gray1]
#313404 - 05/09/01 07:05 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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I just wanted to make sure that it was clear about the 5-HTP stuff not being the same. You can see on the chart why it is important not to confuse them, 5-HTP is diffent chemically and leades to completely different pathways than L-Tryptophan does. Unless the fungi has a way of converting it back to L-Tryptophan the 5-HTP is useless.
Also DMT is N,N-dimethyltryptamine which is the immediate precursor to psilocybin. The only problem with DMT is that is takes time to grow your own. Almost too much time to make it worth your while. I think that adding DMT would almost surely increase potency.
Another word about L-tryptophan. The metabolic pathway to L-Tryptophan is controlled by a "feedback loop". This feedback loop prevents the organism from producing to much tryptophan.
I beleive that this feedback loop is what limits the amount of psilocybin that is produced by limiting the amount of tryptophan. Adding more tryptophan at the right time MIGHT allow you to increase potency.
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"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
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shizifty
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: Bleuboxo]
#313406 - 05/09/01 07:07 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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In reply to:
L-tryptophan --> tryptamine
tryptamine --> N-methyltryptamine
N-methyltryptamine --> N,N-dimethyltryptamine
N,N-dimethyltryptamine --> psilocin & psilocybin
Since L-Tryptophan is a step backwards from what Dr Gartz used to obtain his reults, why not jump ahead a step or 2 and use DMT. substrate and casing layers containing phalaris, mimosa or p. viridis. > tom you already went there.
In reply to:
The extraction procedure and the analysis of the indole alkaloids by using HPLC and TLC were described in the previous papers (3,8-10).
without this step why bother? anyone here do / know who could analyze these levels?
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call management seek some reinbursement for the nerve endings that burnt from the first hits
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creatures of the forest sing along with my chorus
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Humidity
Mad Scientist
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: Humidity]
#313417 - 05/09/01 07:23 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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Two things that might be benifical are:
pyridoxine (vitamin B6) - this is a cofactor in the synthesis of tryptamine and L-Tryptophan
L-Glutamine - this is used in the first reaction in the synthesis of L-Tryptophan
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"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
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paddoholland
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Registered: 02/13/01
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Loc: the Netherlands
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: Humidity]
#313654 - 05/10/01 12:19 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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So if we use mimmosa root bark as substrate, would the pc temps destroy the dmt? No okay, than grinding the mimmosa root bark, adding vitamin B6 (cold sterilisation), this might increase potency!
Might be an nice experiment.
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Opi
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: paddoholland]
#313667 - 05/10/01 12:43 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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Just don't discount the idea that you might produce other active tryptamines by using precursors not in the 'natural' biosynthetic pathway. That chart is just the pathway of psilocybin/psilocin. Who knows what other magic our fungal friends can preform?
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Dirtmaster
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: Opi]
#313708 - 05/10/01 02:18 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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hahaha aaaaaaahhhh
while you mad geniuses are at it, can't you create a potato with skyhigh levels of thc. it seems so easy when you discuss it...
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Explorer
Stranger
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: Dirtmaster]
#313740 - 05/10/01 05:06 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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What I would suggest is forgetting about altering the substrate. Adding 100mg of DMT, or phalaris extract, which contains N.N. DMT, 5-Meo-DMT and trace amounts of gramine and bufotenine. to the substrate after sterilisation. Leave the jars for three days to see if any contamination has occured. Given that the DMT extraction process results in a relatively pure, crystaline material, I would doubt that it could contain many contaminants. The jars could then be innoculated as normal,. If pure N.N. DMT is preferred, an extract of mimosa could be done instead of phalaris.
I have yet to verify this, but it seems that DMT alkaloids are soluble in super-critical solvents, and that a butane extraction would work. This should result (if mimosa were used) in an oil containing the DMT alkaloids and a tiny amount of chlorophyll (which could be removed by acidfying, de-fatting, basing and extraction with naptha. If you leave the chlorophyll in, you could go from dried root bark to spiking the jars with N.N.DMT in roughly 30 minutes.
I will be letting you know the results, hopefully, in a month or so.
You might think that this is a waste of DMT, but I don't get off on it anyway, whereas I know psilocybin works. For me space is at a premium, and if I can get 3-4 times the amount of psilocybin from the same amount of shrooms, I reckon it's got to be good.
The 3-4 times potency hike was suggested by a friend who knows more about these things than I do, but it kind of makes sense. An average dose of psilocybiin is supposed to be roughly 10mgs, yes? Well, for each cake, you're adding ten doses worth of psilocin's immediate pre-cursor.
Oh, and by the way, there are several species of lichen which contain masses of THC. If anyone knows any lichen cultivation techniques.........
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gray1
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: Explorer]
#313775 - 05/10/01 07:07 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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lichen that contain thc? i've actually been interested in studying and cultivating lichens and mosses recently, but the availability of good information is limited, and from what i know, lichens grow exceedingly slowly and are difficult to propogate. nature can grow them, but that's about it. definately worth looking into though. what are the names of the species?
c12h16n24ohdmt
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Explorer
Stranger
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: gray1]
#313963 - 05/10/01 12:29 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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No idea as to which species. Alexander Shulgin posted a piece on it on alchemind.org. He did say that it is legal, so it shouldn't be too hard to find out. Hmm, I feel a search coming on........
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jonnyshaggs420
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Re: super potent shrooms are possible. [Re: Dirtmaster]
#314186 - 05/10/01 04:45 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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Why bother with trying to make potatoes manufacture TCH. It is said that if you graft a marijuana root stock to a hops vine, the hops, a legal plant, will begin producing THC. And Hops grows over 10 feet per year so you could get a lot of bulk roughage with THC.
I can see a world where this is no poverty and no war, I can also see us attacking that world because they would never expect it. 
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