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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: ]
    #3134024 - 09/14/04 01:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

this assumes that one wishes to engage the entire force of the US military in open combat.

What do you mean? You and luv taking on a division of Navy Seals?

And what do you do when you run out of ammo? Walk into the nearest shop and buy some more? What if the government ban the sale of ammo?

it completely ignores the possibility of guerrilla warfare

Guerilla warfare tends to work best using small groups. Whether or not Aunt Mabel has a saturday night special isn't too important. Once the government bans the sale of ammo you are not going to be able to arm everyone in the country. You will need to concentrate on tiny forces you can arm, train and trust.

a civil-war scenario with defecting US military units

You'd have more success at this using peaceful methods of demonstration like Gandhi.

the collapse of government authority

Not very likely. They'd just label you bedfellows of al-qaeda and lock you up in Gitmo bay.

legitimate civilian use

Such as?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3134051 - 09/14/04 01:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"In a related note, marijuana kills brain cells. That is all"

Square!


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #3134058 - 09/14/04 01:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
Once the government bans the sale of ammo you are not going to be able to arm everyone in the country.




I know people with quite a bit of ammunition on hand. Plus considering how effectively the government has kept drugs and illegial aliens out of the country I don't forsee an ammunition ban having any effect on someone willing to bypass the law.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: z@z.com]
    #3134067 - 09/14/04 01:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

But there are usually only a small number of groups responsible for importing drugs and illegal aliens.

The point is you will need to target the ammo to people you can trust. It's totally irrelevant everyone in America having a gun. You could launch a guerilla campaign just as effectively in the UK where guns are banned.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #3134080 - 09/14/04 01:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

alex, i think you misunderstand what i'm saying. there are many reasons that a person would want to have a semi-automatic military-style rifle. they are made to be reliable, easy to operate and take care of, and comfortable to shoot. the ammunition is cheap and readily available.

the fact that they would be useful in some kind of doomsday scenario is a very distant and secondary consideration.

i just want to be able to own a rifle that is going to last a long time, is comfortable to shoot, is easy to maintain, and won't bankrupt me when i go to buy ammunition. so do many other peaceful people in this country.

do you believe that all rifles should be banned?

if not, on what criteria should certain rifles be prohibited?


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: ]
    #3134128 - 09/14/04 01:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I've no problem with people enjoying target shooting. What's the attraction of having one in your house tho? Why not leave them at the gun club? Are there that many places in your neighbourhood where you can go and loose off an automatic rifle?

There's the trouble of the people going berserk and slaughtering people if they have access to automatic rifles too. If the columbine killers only had knives they'd have been lucky to kill one.

Since gun laws were tightened up in the UK we havn't had a single mass slaughter.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: 1stimer]
    #3134188 - 09/14/04 02:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

1stimer said:
Quote:

A highly overlooked fact. In fact, they'd be much more effective weapons for waging a revolution than for mugging someone on the street, which is probably why the government is so afraid of them.



You are living in neacon lala land. The only way the 2nd amendment will protect us from a corrupt government is if we are allowed to possess nuclear bombs and f-16s.



First of all, it's spelled "neocon." Second, neoconservatism is very pro-government, which is exactly the opposite of where I'm coming from. Third, tell me exactly how much good all the napalm and agent orange we dropped on Vietnam did against a population armed with guns and engaged in guerilla warfare.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #3134209 - 09/14/04 02:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I've no problem with people enjoying target shooting. What's the attraction of having one in your house tho? Why not leave them at the gun club?

i can think of many reasons.

1. you might not live near anywhere near a gun club.
2. a membership at a gun club may be too expensive.
3. you might want to go hunting for food.
4. maybe you keep a rifle for self-defense.

i don't know where you're from exactly, but i can tell you as a pennsylvanian that there are still quite a few places in this country where a rifle is an important tool in most households.

Are there that many places in your neighbourhood where you can go and loose off an automatic rifle?

was that a typo?

sorry if you're already know this, but let me explain the difference between a semi-automatic rifle and an automatic one. a semi-automatic rifle can fire one round for every time you pull the trigger without the need to operate the action via a bolt, lever, etc. an automatic rifle will fire bullets at a very high rate of fire for as long as there is ammunition in the rifle and the trigger is pulled back. automatic weapons were illegal before the ban and still are. semi-automatic rifles bearing certain cosmetic characteristics were the target of the ban.

as far as high-profile mass-killings, yes, there have been a few. perhaps this is clouding the fact that even before the ban, the types of weapons covered by it were used in a very small percentage of all violent crimes?

do you think that all rifles should be illegal for private ownership?

if only certain ones should be illegal, on what criteria would you decide which ones?

also... just out of curiousity...

do you live in city, a suburb, or out in the country?

have you ever fired a rifle?


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: ]
    #3134450 - 09/14/04 03:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

All of the reasons you stated could be accomplished with guns that arent considered assault weapons(3. you might want to go hunting for food.4. maybe you keep a rifle for self-defense.) or are luxuries (1. you might not live near anywhere near a gun club. 2. a membership at a gun club may be too expensive. )that should be sacrificed for the safety and welbeing of the general populace from terrorists and crazy unstable people.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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Anonymous

Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: 1stimer]
    #3134475 - 09/14/04 03:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

do you believe that some rifles should be illegal while others are prohibited?

can you give a complete, comprehensive description of the criteria you would use to determine what rifles are "assault rifles" and which ones are not?


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Anonymous

Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: 1stimer]
    #3134485 - 09/14/04 03:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

also...

do you know off the top of your head how many people are killed each year in the US by military-style rifles?

have you fired a rifle once in your entire life?


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: 1stimer]
    #3134486 - 09/14/04 03:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Do drug laws keep drugs out of people's hands? What makes gun laws any different?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: ]
    #3134492 - 09/14/04 03:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

sheesh. debating anti-gun people is almost as bad as debating anti-drug people.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
the cool fool
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: ]
    #3134551 - 09/14/04 03:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

im not anti gun i just dont trust gun freaks with all types of weaponary... there needs to be limits..


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #3134553 - 09/14/04 03:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You'd have more success at this using peaceful methods of demonstration like Gandhi.

I cannot agree with this. While the march to slaughter made quite a statement, it was incredibly inefficient. If they were killing the english in even a meager ratio, the cost/benefit ratio for england staying would have much more quickly slid into ghandi and friends' favor.


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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Anonymous

Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3134683 - 09/14/04 04:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

im not anti gun i just dont trust gun freaks with all types of weaponary... there needs to be limits..

absolutely, but the 1994 assault weapons ban was very much on the wrong side of those limits.

here is the text of the 1994 ban as it applies to rifles:

(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means--
`(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the
firearms in any caliber, known as--
`(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat
Kalashnikovs (all models);
`(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and
Galil;
`(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
`(iv) Colt AR-15;
`(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
`(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
`(vii) Steyr AUG;
`(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
`(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar
to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;
`(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a
detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--
`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath
the action of the weapon;
`(iii) a bayonet mount;
`(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to
accommodate a flash suppressor; and
`(v) a grenade launcher;

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/laws/majorlaw/h3355_en.htm

can you see how the ban has more to do with what a weapon looks like than what it does? a "pistol grip" is there for purposes of ergonomics. it does not make a weapon more lethal. the same is true of a retractable stock. bayonet mounts and flash suppressors add little to the lethality of a weapon.



this is a mini-14 range rifle.

it is a semi-automatic rifle chambered in rem .223 and capable of accepting a 30 round magazine. it was not covered by the ban because it does lacks the requisite cosmetic characteristics.





this is an AR-15 rifle.

it is a semi-automatic rifle chambered in rem .223 and capable of accepting a 30 round magazine. it is no more dangerous than the one above it, but it sure looks like it is, and was in fact banned until very recently.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: ]
    #3134712 - 09/14/04 04:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think the mini-14 is a better gun. more accurate and easier to shoot.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: ]
    #3134750 - 09/14/04 04:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Assault Rifle: Any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles designed for individual use in combat or any of the automatic rifles or semiautomatic rifles with large magazines designed for military use

I was in the military. I have fired an m-16 and m-60.

Statistics on deaths from assault rifles can be construed to support either side. If there are few deaths then you could argue that the ban is working. If there are a lot of deaths then that would support the notion of tightening restrictions on them.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


Edited by 1stimer (09/14/04 04:31 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: 1stimer]
    #3134786 - 09/14/04 04:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Assault Rifle: Any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles designed for individual use in combat or any of the automatic rifles or semiautomatic rifles with large magazines designed for military use

that's not very specific. how do you decide whether or not a rifle was designed for combat? for instance, the mini-14 is used by police agencies, yet is far more common amongst ranchers and farmers.

what is a "large magazine"?

Statistics on deaths from assault rifles can be construed to support either side. If there are few deaths then you could argue that the ban is working. If there are a lot of deaths then that would support the notion of tightening restrictions on them.

fair enough. do you have any idea how many were killed in the years immediately preceding the ban?

I was in the military. I have fired an m-16 and m-60.

what branch? active duty, reserves, or national guard? how long ago?


Edited by mushmaster (09/14/04 04:47 PM)


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: ]
    #3134866 - 09/14/04 04:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


what branch? active duty, reserves, or national guard? how long ago?



Why so nosy?
Quote:

fair enough. do you have any idea how many were killed in the years immediately preceding the ban?




In the 24 states with no gun-control laws in 1990, there were 24.4 gun related deaths per 100,000. In the 26 states with gun-control laws, there were 19.6 gun-related deaths per 100,000 persons.
The gun control laws saved 5 people per 100,000 per year. That is a significant number of people who were saved from death.
Kwon, Ik-Whan G., Scott, Bradley, Safranski, Scott R., & Bae, Muen. (1997). The Effectiveness of Gun Control Laws: Multivariate Statistical Analysis. American Journal of Economics and Sociology 56 (1) 41-50.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


Edited by 1stimer (09/14/04 04:58 PM)


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