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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Cyber]
    #3131796 - 09/13/04 10:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Cyber said:
Oh and the M60 will run you a cool $5000! Man they are a blast to shoot!






They sure as hell are fun to shoot if you can afford the ammo. .308 rounds are cheap, but not when you shoot 200 of them.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: z@z.com]
    #3131858 - 09/13/04 10:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

First of all there is a difference between arms and ordinance. Arms are small arms (rifles pistols etc) while ordinance are things like cannons.


I didn't know that, thanks for the clairfication.

Quote:

Second of all the people are the militia.


Ok, so here's where we have an issue, according to the 2nd amendment:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

who has the right, people, or a well regulated militia? I know you say people ARE the militia, but people aren't always well regulated, do you see what I'm getting at?


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Posts: 27,301
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Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Skikid16]
    #3131886 - 09/13/04 10:24 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

A militia is a civilian army. Originally, each state was supposed to have a militia it could call upon(in other words, it could summon its armed citizens) to protect itself from infringements by the federal government. Unfortunately, this has long since been forgotten about.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Skikid16]
    #3131903 - 09/13/04 10:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Skikid16 said:
who has the right, people, or a well regulated militia? I know you say people ARE the militia, but people aren't always well regulated, do you see what I'm getting at?



Well regulated just means well prepared. It is necessary for them to be well prepared in order to maintain a free state. Do you see any free states?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

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Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: silversoul7]
    #3131904 - 09/13/04 10:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So is the 2nd amendment dead as we know it, since militias (well except for Michigan, heheheheh) are dead as we know them to be?


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Anonymous

Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Skikid16]
    #3131913 - 09/13/04 10:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"A well regulated Militia" is a nominative absolute.

"being necessary to the security of a free State" is a participial phrase modifying "Militia"

The subject (a compound subject) of the sentence is "the right of the people"

"shall not be infringed" is a verb phrase, with "not" as an adverb modifying the verb phrase "shall be infringed"

"to keep and bear Arms" is an infinitive phrase modifying "right"

:laugh:


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

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Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: z@z.com]
    #3131912 - 09/13/04 10:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well are there guidlines as to how they should prepare, I'm just looking for something quantifiable to distiguish between joe shmoe and a well regulated militia.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Skikid16]
    #3131915 - 09/13/04 10:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

No, the purpose of it still stands(the protection of the citizens against the federal governement). It's just unfortunate that people don't fulfill this purpose.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: ]
    #3131927 - 09/13/04 10:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

OH my holy god, I know that was a clarification, but damn......

Now I have to look up "nomative absolute" and think about grammar. DAMN YOU MUSHMASTER.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Anonymous

Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Skikid16]
    #3131936 - 09/13/04 10:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well are there guidlines as to how they should prepare, I'm just looking for something quantifiable to distiguish between joe shmoe and a well regulated militia.

it's irrelevent to the meaning of the second amendment. the militia clause gives but one reason that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". it does not require that one be part of a militia, or even a well-regulated one, in order to be protected by the second amendment.

consider if we had an amendment that stated, "a well-educated electorate being essential to the security of a free state, the right of the people to write and read books shall not be infringed".

this recognizes the right of the people to read and write. a reason is given, but this should not be construed to mean that one must be a registered voter, or even well-educated, to read and write.


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

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Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: ]
    #3131962 - 09/13/04 10:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I see. I hear you, thank you for the clarification.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineWorf
Lt. Commander

Registered: 07/04/04
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Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3131993 - 09/13/04 10:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Ok so mushrooms are illegal but assault weapons are legal. Makes sense to me.

When are we allowed to have thermonuclear devices and anthrax? I might need them just in case some burglar wants to steal my stash.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Worf]
    #3132015 - 09/13/04 10:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

outputrotation said:
Ok so mushrooms are illegal but assault weapons are legal. Makes sense to me.



We're still working on that.

Quote:

When are we allowed to have thermonuclear devices and anthrax? I might need them just in case some burglar wants to steal my stash.



Nice job in completely ignoring the difference between arms and WMD's.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3132026 - 09/13/04 10:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Okay, there's three basic arguments I tend to hear advocates of the second amendment use:

1. "I hunt."
2. "I need to be able to fend off the federal government if need be."
3. "If that nigger down the street has one, then I gosh dang it, I want one!"

The first one, I have absolutely no issue with. Although I don't think there's a need to use assault weapons when hunting. Or if there is, I haven't heard a good reason why.

The second one, I'm pretty cool with too. I knew a few militia guys growing up. They weren't exactly the most level headed people. But I understood and respected what they stood for. Or at least what they said they stood for. I think that as long as militias avoid becoming everyday vigilantes, they should have the right to be armed with assault weapons (although I do think a line has to be drawn somewhere, even with militias).

The third one, I can't fucking stand. The general argument of owning a gun because you want to defend yourself from... other people who bought guns to defend themselves from... other people who bought guns to defend themselves from... other people who bought guns... and so on. It just grows. And you can extend the logic so to suggest that every person should own a gun for self defense. Why? Because there are so many people out there with guns... How about just not buying one and learning to feel secure. Cause I've spent a lot of nights in Harlem and never once felt the least bit threatened.

Anyway, are there laws in place that grant militias special privileges? If so, I think there needs to be a wider gap between what the public can keep in there homes and what militias can stash.

I think gun ownership is maybe the most interesting domestic political issue. That and abortion. I love to hear peoples' opinions.
:cheers:


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Anonymous

Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Worf]
    #3132063 - 09/13/04 10:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Ok so mushrooms are illegal but assault weapons are legal. Makes sense to me.

does that really sound like a good argument to you?

When are we allowed to have thermonuclear devices and anthrax?

i imagine you might be closer to being allowed to have thermonuclear weapons and anthrax when they pass a constitutional amendment recognizing a right to do so. the second amendment does not.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Registered: 11/17/02
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Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: ]
    #3132121 - 09/13/04 11:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

the right wants abortion illegal and machine guns legal ...so when all the unwanted babies grow up to be thugs and criminals, theyll have guns to kill them with.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: Gijith]
    #3132137 - 09/13/04 11:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

oh and i like it when they say they want those machine guns for "sport shooting" :lol: i have visions of fucktards drinking pabst and blowing away watermelons "for sport". or maybe cletus and wilbur squirel hunting with uzis


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Anonymous

Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3132176 - 09/13/04 11:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

yeah? yeah? well... well....


well the left.... they want to take all the guns so that the populace will be complicent and they can turn the country into a socialist regime where they kill all the babies for population control!!!!1

:eek:



:rolleyes:


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
the cool fool
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Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: ]
    #3132196 - 09/13/04 11:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

hahaha riiiiight...a lot of us on the left love our guns...we just dont love em in the sick twisted weird way the right does.... im a proud pistol owner, but i am also smart to realize everyone packing arsenals is ridiculous.. i dont have to be a badass with 100000 guns. and for home defense?? these fucking gun tards dont even realize handguns arent the best for home defense. they actually get a chance to kill a robber and shoot their kids or neighbors through walls.....real men know a shotty is the safest gun for your home defense


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Anonymous

Re: HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!! [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3132212 - 09/13/04 11:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

HAPPY REDNECK HILLBILLY MILTIA DAY!!!

a bunch of guys with small penises and huge egos can now again buy mahcine guns

Billy-Bob down the street

fucktards drinking pabst and blowing away watermelons "for sport". or maybe cletus and wilbur squirel hunting with uzis

meanwhile, you haven't constructed a single logical, rational argument in support of... anything.

how about instead of regressing to using ignorant negative stereotypes, you actually read up on the issues at hand, make an informed decision based on actual facts, and then try making a post about it?


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