Home | Community | Message Board


Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
US acknowledgement
    #3129575 - 09/13/04 03:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Finally, the US has acknowledged that the killings in the Darfur region can be classified as GENOCIDE. Maybe this will put the fire under GW to take some increased action.

link

U.S. Calls Killings In Sudan Genocide
Khartoum and Arab Militias Are Responsible, Powell Says

By Glenn Kessler and Colum Lynch
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, September 10, 2004; Page A01

Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said for the first time yesterday that genocide has taken place in Sudan and that the government in Khartoum and government-sponsored Arab militias known as Janjaweed "bear responsibility" for rapes, killings and other abuses that have left 1.2 million black Africans homeless.

Powell's long-awaited declaration -- the result of months of investigation and discussion within the State Department -- is intended to increase pressure on the Sudanese government to end the violence in Sudan's Darfur region. But refugee organizations and aid groups said it also will make it much harder for the Bush administration to step away from the problem if its diplomatic efforts are unsuccessful.



Speaking to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Powell said: "We concluded -- I concluded -- that genocide has been committed in Darfur and that the government of Sudan and the Janjaweed bear responsibility -- and genocide may still be occurring."

Powell's statement came as the United States began negotiations at the United Nations on a Security Council resolution that threatens to consider new sanctions against Sudan if it fails to crack down on the militias, and calls for the establishment of a U.N. commission of inquiry to determine whether Sudan and the militia are responsible for genocide. A finding of genocide does not impose obligations on the United States, but as a signatory to the 1948 Genocide Convention, the United States is committed to preventing and punishing genocide.

Sudanese officials reacted angrily to Powell's announcement, saying it will only make it more difficult to resolve what they describe as an internal problem. At the United Nations, officials from a number of Security Council member nations expressed concern that Powell's statement would complicate efforts to win broad support for a new resolution. Both the African Union and the Arab League have said there is no genocide. The European Union said it does not have enough information.

Powell cited a report released by the State Department yesterday that found a "consistent and widespread pattern of atrocities committed against non-Arab villagers." The report, based on 1,136 interviews with refugees this summer, said 61 percent had witnessed the killing of a family member and 16 percent had been raped or had heard about a rape victim. About one-third had heard racial epithets while they were being attacked, the report said.

For the moment, a declaration of genocide by the United States has little practical effect. But coming in the midst of continuing attacks, it puts the imprimatur of the world's most powerful nation on a serious and grave charge against Sudan, possibly setting in motion an inquiry that ultimately could result in war crimes tribunals. Other recent instances of genocide, such as in Rwanda and Cambodia, were recognized only long after the crimes.

When Powell visited Darfur in June, he resisted questions about whether the abuses amounted to genocide, saying "what we are seeing is a disaster, a catastrophe, and we can find the right label for it later." The U.S. Congress has since passed a resolution urging the administration to label the Darfur situation a genocide, and the Sudanese government has failed to comply with a U.N. resolution passed July 30 calling on it to end the suffering.

State Department officials familiar with Powell's deliberations said he decided last week he needed to make a clear statement at the Senate hearing. Over the weekend, he took home the State Department report and concluded that Khartoum was complicit in genocide because he had put the government on notice two months ago, laying out what officials needed to do to end the violence, and they had not acted.

Another factor in Powell's decision was that Sudan is a signatory to the 1948 U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, which defines genocide as a calculated effort to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group in whole or in part. The convention calls on signatories to prevent and punish genocide.

"The acts are clearly genocidal," said one senior U.S. official familiar with the debate. "The question was the intent" of the government.

Security Council members Britain, Spain and Germany back U.S. efforts to establish a commission of inquiry. But some European diplomats expressed concern that Powell's statement would complicate efforts to win broader support. China warned that it may veto the resolution, noting that it does not believe genocide has occurred. "There are problems in Darfur, but we don't see it as that category," said Wang Guangya, China's ambassador to the United Nations. The council should "come up with constructive ideas to help solve the problem, not to make the problem more complicated."

Pakistan's ambassador, Munir Akram, said Powell's statement has weakened Washington's case for the commission because it prejudged the outcome. "If you already brand it as genocide even before an inquiry, I think that might be more difficult."


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: Skikid16]
    #3130054 - 09/13/04 04:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

You miss the point entirely. The US is the first government to officially brand it genocide -- something Kofi Annan and his bum boys at the UN have scrupulously avoided doing. The US is taking the lead in condemning it, fa cryin' out loud!

Sheesh.

pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: Phred]
    #3130094 - 09/13/04 04:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I'll be damned. 

Powell aint all that bad.  :thumbup:


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: Skikid16]
    #3130750 - 09/13/04 07:36 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

A question to all of you out there:

What, if any, action should the US government take?

I feel that military action is more justified in Sudan than it was in Iraq, but I'm not sure if I think it should get to that point.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: Skikid16]
    #3130874 - 09/13/04 08:03 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The difference is that Hussein expanded his horrorshow beyond his borders and thus became free game. We're busy. How about some of the phonies doing something about this one. We won't complain. Oh wait, there's no money in it for them. Nevermind.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3130886 - 09/13/04 08:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The difference is that Hussein expanded his horrorshow beyond his borders and thus became free game


When, 12 years ago?

This shit is happening right now.

How can you say that if a government keeps its atrocities within its boarders, its alright?


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: Skikid16]
    #3130929 - 09/13/04 08:22 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not. It just makes it easier in terms of getting other countries to do anything. The craven cowards of Europe (and I know you know who I'm talking about) are all talk. We're busy. Let those cunts do something for a change.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 13 years, 26 days
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: Phred]
    #3130945 - 09/13/04 08:24 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Hey, be easy on Skikid... you have to hand it to him he's the least stubborn in his beliefs of everyone in PAL.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: Zahid]
    #3131040 - 09/13/04 08:48 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
Hey, be easy on Skikid... you have to hand it to him he's the least stubborn in his beliefs of everyone in PAL.


Yeah, I mean screw you, I mean thanks.........

I'm so confused :eek:


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3131091 - 09/13/04 08:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The craven cowards of Europe (and I know you know who I'm talking about) are all talk. We're busy. Let those cunts do something for a change.


So you feel the US should do nothing? Fair enough. It is your opinion and you entitled.

I just can't believe we are standing by while thousands are systematically murdered by militias backed by the Sudenese government.

I mean, everyone who ever said "at least the Iraqis don't have to live in fear anymore" are complete hypocrites if they feel nothing should be done in Sudan (I'm not refering to you Zappa, I don't know your thoughts on Iraq as a humanitarian exercise) . But that is just my opinion.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleBuddha5254
addict
Registered: 04/23/00
Posts: 532
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: Skikid16]
    #3131190 - 09/13/04 09:18 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Its funny how this genocide has been going on for a decade, its just that the location has changed to Darfur and suddenly everyone cares for some reason. FUck the Sudanese government


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: Buddha5254]
    #3131211 - 09/13/04 09:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I just became aware of it in the last few months.

And, I don't think everyone, let alone most people care.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinethieverycorp
Stranger

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 181
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: Skikid16]
    #3132206 - 09/14/04 12:25 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If we're going to police part of the world that isn't our own, we should police all of the world that isn't our own...


--------------------




Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: thieverycorp]
    #3132214 - 09/14/04 12:27 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

OK, so do you feel we should initiate any action in regards to Sudan?


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinethieverycorp
Stranger

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 181
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: Skikid16]
    #3132227 - 09/14/04 12:30 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, we've set a precedent as being the global security force and we're supposed to be fighting a war on terrorism...
this is government sanctioned terrorism...


--------------------




Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: thieverycorp]
    #3132282 - 09/14/04 12:42 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I see, thank you for the clairfication.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinethieverycorp
Stranger

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 181
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: Skikid16]
    #3132319 - 09/14/04 12:48 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm saying we can't be humanatarians part of the time... we can't invade one country based on humanatarian(that's one of the reasons we invaded Iraq, right? :whatever:) and not invade another country where atrocities are being committed... we are either all the way or not at all...


--------------------




Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: thieverycorp]
    #3132341 - 09/14/04 12:51 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I hear you, while I don't think we should be going around invading all over, I also don't think we should blatantly ignore atrocities.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
Male
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 1,047
Loc: Wales (yes it is a countr...
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: Skikid16]
    #3133256 - 09/14/04 07:07 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The UK supposedly drew up plans to send in 5,000 troops but for whatever reason they weren't implemented. If I remember correctly it had something to do with the UN not wanting to label the crisis genocide and protests in Sudan.

Though, as far as i'm aware we are helping to fund the African Union force there at the moment...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: US acknowledgement [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3133291 - 09/14/04 07:43 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The difference is that Hussein expanded his horrorshow beyond his borders and thus became free game.




Silly boy. That only applies to oil war 1. oil war 2 was about wmd/regime change/saving people (its good to provide options for the gullible)


--------------------
Always Smi2le


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Stop Genocide in Sudan queenannie 634 5 07/05/04 12:04 AM
by Baby_Hitler
* Syria using chemical weapons in Sudan zip 483 1 10/10/04 11:37 AM
by Great_Satan
* Recognize the Armenian genocide
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
CaRnAgECaNdYS 5,486 96 02/03/08 04:42 PM
by Phred
* Rape 'a weapon' in Sudan war
( 1 2 all )
question_for_joo 1,620 20 07/20/04 06:59 AM
by Innvertigo
* Bush signs Sudan sanctions bill st0nedphucker 568 0 12/24/04 11:59 AM
by st0nedphucker
* Should we go into Sudan? Swami 415 7 07/02/04 09:49 AM
by Innvertigo
* Armenian Genocide: Forgotten History Redstorm 408 3 01/17/05 08:22 PM
by Baba_McKensey
* British teacher charged in Sudan with insulting religion, inciting hatred Thin White Duke 1,619 16 11/30/07 10:22 PM
by BrAiN

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil
1,059 topic views. 1 members, 2 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Kraken Kratom
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 21 queries.