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OfflineElectricBoogaloo
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Registered: 09/07/04
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Will this experiment kill me?
    #3123534 - 09/11/04 09:40 PM (13 years, 17 days ago)

I made a post in the other cultivation forum and was referred here. I'd like to try using the left-overs from my wine making as a substrate. I'm making some chokecherry wine, and the left-overs will be about 2 pounds of skins, pits, and pulp...very nutrient rich. The only problem is that chokecherry pits contain trace amounts of cyanide in them.

Will the shrooms absorb the cyanide? Will it be concentrated in them? Should I even risk it?


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InvisibleTheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
Re: Will this experiment kill me? *DELETED* [Re: ElectricBoogaloo]
    #3123560 - 09/11/04 09:46 PM (13 years, 17 days ago)

Post deleted by TheHateCamel

Reason for deletion: fh



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Offlineksdoob
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Registered: 09/04/04
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #3123681 - 09/11/04 10:19 PM (13 years, 17 days ago)

cigarettes have trace cyanide


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OfflineGr0wer
always improving
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Registered: 09/16/03
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: ksdoob]
    #3124277 - 09/12/04 01:11 AM (13 years, 17 days ago)

Fell free to experiment with caution. If cyanide is water soluable and can enter the myc cells then its likley the shrooms will draw up the toxin. I would stick to straw/dung and perfect that with composting.


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Offlinepsiloz
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Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: ElectricBoogaloo]
    #3124377 - 09/12/04 01:37 AM (13 years, 17 days ago)

Wont it volatilse when the substarte is a) sterilised or b)pasteurised

Cyanogenic material should be boiled in an open well ventilated place to allow dispersion


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: psiloz]
    #3124414 - 09/12/04 01:45 AM (13 years, 17 days ago)

Or you can collect the fumes, bottle em up and sell em to the arabs. Im sure they could put em to use :wink:


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: ElectricBoogaloo]
    #3124677 - 09/12/04 02:51 AM (13 years, 17 days ago)

there are many cyanides- sodium cyanide, potassium cyanide, etc.

so don't assume safe or unsafe just from the word 'cyanide'... find out exactly what type of cyanide we're talking about and do the research on it before you try this, or you just may kill yourself.


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #3125072 - 09/12/04 04:59 AM (13 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

MikeOLogical said:
there are many cyanides- sodium cyanide, potassium cyanide, etc.

so don't assume safe or unsafe just from the word 'cyanide'... find out exactly what type of cyanide we're talking about and do the research on it before you try this, or you just may kill yourself.




Hydrogen cyanide, potassium cyanide, sodium cyanide, calcium cyanide, copper cyanide, cyanogen chloride, thiocyanate, cyanogen, zinc cyanide, silver cyanide, and potassium silver cyanide are all toxic.

The only safe chemical containing cyanide that I am aware of is Vitamin B12.

"The subchronic and chronic oral RfDs are 0.02 mg/kg/day for cyanide; 0.04 mg/kg/day for sodium cyanide, calcium cyanide, and cyanogen; 0.05 mg/kg/day for potassium cyanide, chlorine cyanide, and zinc cyanide; 0.1 mg/kg/day for silver cyanide; and 0.2 mg/kg/day for potassium silver cyanide."


-FF


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OfflineSpudz76
Got mycelium on the brain...
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Registered: 02/08/04
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: ElectricBoogaloo]
    #3125112 - 09/12/04 05:33 AM (13 years, 17 days ago)

You could leave out the pits and just use the pulp and skins along with straw. I don't think the mushrooms would be able to get though a pit hull anyway so they wouldn't do anything anyway and they are not nutritative if it can't 'crack' them or you don't grind them up first or something. Assuming chokecherry pits are similar to regular (like bing) cherry pits but smaller. And assuming I actually know what chokecherries are (I think I do... they're like crabapples are to apples, smaller and sour?).

Do the skins or pulp contain anything bad? You might have to basify them to the right pH also if they are highly acidic (which, they probably are if they are tart/sour).


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: ElectricBoogaloo]
    #3125125 - 09/12/04 05:48 AM (13 years, 17 days ago)

i think the name might give you a clue as to whether they're toxic or not... the first person to eat it choked so much he called it a chokecherry...

on an unrelated note, i think the first person ever to eat cheese was one brave mofo


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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OfflineOpenminded
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Registered: 08/28/03
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: ElectricBoogaloo]
    #3125332 - 09/12/04 09:36 AM (13 years, 17 days ago)

Cyanide from plant sources generally comes from cyanogenic glycosides, which are hydrolysed to produce hydrogen cyanide. If you've been making wine then it will have had plenty of opportunity to hydrolyse, and the hydrogen cyanide will mainly have escaped (into the air and your wine).
So there should be little left in your leftovers, I think.
Also I would imagine that cyanide is also toxic to fungi, so if there are harmful levels then your mushrooms just won't grow, so there will be no danger of eating toxic mushrooms!

Also remember that apples, pears, cherries, almonds and many other foods contain these same cyanogenic glycosides, and they don't kill you. Although I have no knowledge of the toxin levels in chokecherry.


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OfflineFirstAvailable
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: fastfred]
    #3144664 - 09/16/04 06:58 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
The only safe chemical containing cyanide that I am aware of is Vitamin B12.
-FF





doesn't vitamine b12 make you stop tripping? So this would be something you don't want in your shrooms.


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OfflineSpudz76
Got mycelium on the brain...
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: FirstAvailable]
    #3144986 - 09/16/04 08:36 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

I am unsure why B12 would do that, perhaps you're thinking of another B vitamin (thamine/niacin perhaps)? B12 (in humans, anyway) assists in breakdown of some fatty acids which help the brain work, and also allows for speedup of DNA replication during cell division, along with assistance with red blood cell formation. So unless the 'brain lubing' powers of B12 help psilocin slip through or break it down I don't think it would be a problem.


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Anywhere in this posting where I have referred to myself or my possessions, it is a personalization of events and items experienced or possessed by someone else.  I do not personally do anything illegal, and I hope nobody else does either.


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OfflineFirstAvailable
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: Spudz76]
    #3145313 - 09/16/04 09:42 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

yea, your right, I was thinking of niacin (B3).


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Offlinemeanoldman
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Registered: 06/14/04
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: ElectricBoogaloo]
    #3165236 - 09/22/04 04:33 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Dude, you allready solubalized them, extracted the juice, and are going to drink that after fermentation. I don't understand how you could be worried about what's left over in the pulp being toxic. That's like thinking that spent coffee grinds are poison, but the coffee is A-OK. ??????


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OfflineOpenminded
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Registered: 08/28/03
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: meanoldman]
    #3165289 - 09/22/04 04:48 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

That's an over-simplification. It could be that the cyanide is released from compounds that are practically insoluble, but are broken down by the mycelium's digestive enzymes to release cyanide which the mycelium can then absorb.
I don't think it's likely, I'm sure that whatever poisons were present will now be in his wine, and I don't think that mushrooms will grow where there are toxic levels of cyanide, but I think it was a good idea for him to ask!


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
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Registered: 08/12/04
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: ElectricBoogaloo]
    #3167924 - 09/23/04 01:32 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Cyanide is usually contain mostly or completely in the pits or seeds.Apple seeds and cherry seeds also contain cyanide.It must be released by distillation I do believe.I mean I've swallowed seeds accidently and Im still alive.lol.Id say leave the pits/seeds out.Its unlikely that the pits are of much use anyway.


--------------------
Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/


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OfflineFirstAvailable
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Re: Will this experiment kill me? [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3175817 - 09/24/04 06:03 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

UnenlightenedOne said:
Its unlikely that the pits are of much use anyway.





You never know. I doubt it can hurt anything. Just crush the seeds up before mixing them in.


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