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 gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
 
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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 We all are NOT................. 
#3122043 - 09/11/04 11:34 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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on a Bhuddist path to enlightenment/nirvana or on a christian path to soul salvation. It dawned on me by a reply I got in another post that someone thinks I am or give a shit to be on these man made pursuits to no where other then now moments and different perspectives on things.
I live below and above that line of thinking and I am sure others here do to. To assume we are all actively on one or the other path is skewed and I'd like to straighten it out.
I personally just like playing with spiritual energy. I have come to realise that that is all there is to do in this never ending existance. There is no where to go, just an infinite way to see, create with and experience energy.
I won't speak for anyone but myself. Leave me out of those assumptions PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE and Thank You!
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
Edited by gettinjiggywithit (09/11/04 11:35 AM)
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 ergot
MydriasicVisionary
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Wise words. You should read "Goedel, Escher, Bach" by Hofstadter.
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"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Good point. I think that needed to be brought up because there is often a spiritual elitism that arises here because of that assumption. I'm not a buddhist or a christian. I can best be described as a pagan I suppose, but I don't take on that label either. I am currently on a path of developing my awareness of the earth and all its inhabitants, of learning to listen to the land and to myself. I am beginning to practice working with energy....
I'm not a buddhist or a christian and i'm not seeking some salvation or transendance from the earth, and I'm annoyed at the spiritual elitism of people that want to go in that direction. They aren't any holier than those of us that aren't going that way.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: We all are NOT................. [Re: NiamhNyx]
#3122376 - 09/11/04 01:04 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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the way i see it therea re 3 broad paths of spirituality
1. blindly walking/dreaming: life happens to you, and you do your best to struggle through it. 80% of your time is spent in animal like behavioural rote action and habits. Your awareness is low, and your happiness is reliant almost entirely on 'fate' and what happens 'to' you
2. Navigating your own path/lucid dreaming: you begin to understand the nature of life, and take active control over your part in it. By energy working and other techniques you gain some ability to change your own fate and emotions, and can experience a wider range of perception and sensation. New paths open to you and you can choose those you desire
3. Getting to the end/waking up: this is the bath of the mahayana buddhists, they seek to ESCAPE the dream, get off the path. Personally this idea does not yet appeal to me, im having far to much fun in the lucid dream life stage, and that may continue for some time yet. However i have been led to believe that we are All on the same path, although at very different stages, and i think in time i to will decide to wake up or transcend this illusion.
*shrugs*
well see
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Everything I post is fiction.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Re: We all are NOT................. [Re: Moonshoe]
#3122409 - 09/11/04 01:12 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I like what you just said, except for the hierarchy of it. Someone seeking "transcendance" isn't necessarily more spiritually evolved than someone who is seeking connection to the earth. The opposite can sometimes be the case as well. Someone who is seeking transendance could be miles behind someone who's primary focus has nothing to do with transending. Some people seek transcedance because they are alienated from thier own bodies, the earth and fellow living beings and want to escape. Escapism isn't highly evolved spirituality as far as I'm concerned.
I feel it's important to not assume the level of someone's spirituality based on what they claim thier goal to be, and what thier methods are. This hierarchy and elitism is really lame... and doesn't it seem a little arrogant and EGOtistical?
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 deff
just love everyone
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we are each on our own path towards self realization, but that means entirely different things based upon one's subjective reality and reasoning
i think we have more in common collectively and that it's merely semantics
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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So as religions and spiritual things say, we will move on. This ascension, this
evolution, this death of our current forms, and the birth of a new.
I "believe" that when you die, what ever you think is gone happen in your mind, will
happen.
So death is only the beginning of a new life, ore the final darkness if that is what
you think. It may be death to our bodies,
but our bodies are only vessels. Our mind is within our bodies, and our body is
within our mind.
But I would say that it is the mind
and the mind only that "control" how we (again the mind) interoperate what we feel
,smell, hear, taste and see.
We are all of 1 source. We are made up of god, god being everything and anything. To
do wrong to each other, is to do wrong to "ourselves". Maybe that is why we strive to
do good.
Time is relative, created by humans to keep a track on whats happening, has happened, and gonna' happen... therefore there is no such thing as age\time... only the term we humans created to keep track of everything.... the only thing that "really" is, the Moment... and it repeates itself over and over and over in differant ways, evolving into the unknown.. and that should not be to hard to get ;D
The golden age is not something from the past, because it is no past, it?s just this
moment (picture a circle) over and over again, and I would like to call it the Golden
moment instead!
I have learned the hard way that people can twist what you are saying, and especially
whit my English.
I cannot stress enough that this is a Hypotheses, and it is not in any way my only
opinion regarding the subject on life and what it may be.
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FrankieN
Stranger
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said:
on a Bhuddist path to enlightenment/nirvana or on a christian path to soul salvation. It dawned on me by a reply I got in another post that someone thinks I am or give a shit to be on these man made pursuits to no where other then now moments and different perspectives on things.
I live below and above that line of thinking and I am sure others here do to. To assume we are all actively on one or the other path is skewed and I'd like to straighten it out.
I personally just like playing with spiritual energy. I have come to realise that that is all there is to do in this never ending existance. There is no where to go, just an infinite way to see, create with and experience energy.
I won't speak for anyone but myself. Leave me out of those assumptions PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE and Thank You!
True religions are man made, but I choose to beleive that what they persue is not, religion is whatever you believe it to be, they can be petty, man made bullshit, or almighty, perfect, nothingness, please don't bash religion for what you beleive it to be, if it really bothers you so much why not work on changing what you belive. Human beings on the other hand are open game, and religous elitism makes me sick as well, but the best way I can see to battle that is by taking what you believe to be true and right and living it.
You say your tired of religous elitism, you sound like an elitist yourself, why must you compare or judge at all, I don't want to tell you what to do or that your right or wrong but simply that you are free and not hold on to negativity but let it go. You will not speak for anyone but yourself, yet you will speak of others freely, why is that. I think words are man made bullshit and can never express anything truly, they can be interpreted and misunderstood so many ways, if we could only communicate our true feelings I think everyone would realize we are on the same path with the same goal.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: We all are NOT................. [Re: FrankieN]
#3124364 - 09/11/04 11:33 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Okaaaaaaaaaaaay,
You wish to communicate to bridge understanding so I will. This post was inspired by a reply made to my feelings towards the idea of Masters- ya know elitist crapola. Someone told me if I followed Bhudists teachings and meditations I would understand Masters.
I never said, 'I wish to understand masters, someone help me understand the idea of elitistism through paths that support it?" It was posted as if I needed to be on some path that reveers Masters.
I need no such thing nor did I ask for help or insight.
My attitude towards religion is mine. If you see it as being negative then maybe your percpetion needs some adjusting. All things are neutral until the percpetion of someone puts a labeling judgment on it.
You say religious paths may be man made that lead to the spiritual and I say, I already am spirit and need no path to get to what I already am. That has nothing to do with being elitist over religion.
NOTHING
It is my truth. I AM Spirit living a spiritual experience in a physical body- no middle men or roads required.
I do a lot of reading here and I rarely see everyone on the same path with the same goal.
devil worshippers are on the same path as christians? hmmmmmmmmmmm
athiests are on the same path as those who beleive in God? hmmmmmmmm
people oriented with their celestial awakening are on the same path as those who don't even beleive in extra terrestrial life? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I could go on.
Perhaps i will do a post on our commonalities. I would agree with def and say it's self realization. I bet there are those who will disagree.
BTW, I never said I was tired of religious elitism- quote me saying it! I said I live above AND BELOW that line of thought. No elitisism there, just out of bounds. Multidimensional beings don't move along linear paths. They go up down forward backwards left and right and inside and outside. Not better or worse just different.
You said that you don't want to tell me what to do but the bulk of your reply to me is all about telling me what to do. Now you want me on your path too. Oh brother! LOL
I care not to battle religious elitism. You said that. Religions can feel as right about what they beleive as they want to. I posted letting such types know that not everyone here wants their rightiousness shoved in our face as if we are wrong for not being on a religious path and somehow don't understand . Anyone who feels as I do most likely has already been on one or many and walked away from it.
I can't possibly see how calling religions man made is a form of bashing them. You made that judgment. Religions are man made. Thats a neutral statement.
You must've taken a bunch of junk feelings you had when you read this post and dumped them into my words.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
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My best friend is an atheist. 
(It's actually true!)
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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Maybe you are on the Path and don't know it. Or don't care to know it. That's totally cool. From my point of view everyone is on a different stage of the road. If someone thinks he is better than you because he is further along the path than you or anyone he is probably not nearly far along as he thinks. He may even be bringing up the rear!
Now I've heard the path described as winding up a mountain and passing through dark tunnels. Metaphoricaly this has been true for me. Every so often you come out of a tunnel and reach a vista- an overlook and yes, you can see your fellow humans below. They only seem smaller because of perspective- there is nothing elitist about it. The moment you start thinking you're better than them..BOOM! You slide back down the mountain..
Everyone is exactly where they have earned a right to be and there is nothing wrong with that.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: We all are NOT................. [Re: zorbman]
#3124487 - 09/12/04 12:06 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Agreed.
Cept for the path part. There is no where to go in my understanding and not because I don't know it or care to know it. Paths are something you follow. I follow my heart. My heart is right here within me right now. I repeat. I have no where to go, only to grow in every direction possible. Forward, backward, up , down, left, right, inside and outside. If that is a path or a place on some path then, whatever.....i don't do the path thing cuz it only leads to in front of and behind thinking which leads to the elitist crap.
There is no such thing to me. As micros of the macro we are already everywhere and nowhere just shifting perception around.
FYI,
I am not chasing the light or the right. I could give rats ass. Hows this?
I am below everyone and in the dark, furthest behind in understanding and totally ignorant. I humbly bow to all religions and beleifs in and with respect because they are a part of the whole which I AM.
Everyone is exactly where they "choose" to be is so and there is nothing wrong with that. If they don't like it and ask for help to be somewhere else then....it's open.
I am totaly happy with where I am at. So of course, when someone thinks where I am at is wrong and wants me to be where they are at because it's right then I may speak up.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Well I have definitely learned lately that it does no good to try to change anyone and often it does a lot of harm. Everything grows at its own pace. If you try to speed up the growth of a plant by overloading it with fertilizer you get a dying plant for your efforts.
So one has to give others the absolute right to their perspective unless asked. And even then the less said the better.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: We all are NOT................. [Re: zorbman]
#3124535 - 09/12/04 12:17 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thats what I am talking about here! Thank you for summing it up!  
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Frog
Warrior
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Re: We all are NOT................. [Re: zorbman]
#3124556 - 09/12/04 12:20 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said:
Maybe you are on the Path and don't know it. Or don't care to know it. That's totally cool. From my point of view everyone is on a different stage of the road. If someone thinks he is better than you because he is further along the path than you or anyone he is probably not nearly far along as he thinks. He may even be bringing up the rear!
Now I've heard the path described as winding up a mountain and passing through dark tunnels. Metaphoricaly this has been true for me. Every so often you come out of a tunnel and reach a vista- an overlook and yes, you can see your fellow humans below. They only seem smaller because of perspective- there is nothing elitist about it. The moment you start thinking you're better than them..BOOM! You slide back down the mountain..
Everyone is exactly where they have earned a right to be and there is nothing wrong with that.
I like these statements.
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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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FrankieN
Stranger
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Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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"devil worshippers are on the same path as christians? hmmmmmmmmmmm
athiests are on the same path as those who beleive in God? hmmmmmmmm
people oriented with their celestial awakening are on the same path as those who don't even beleive in extra terrestrial life? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm"
Yes they are all on the same path, like you said growing in all directions, wichever way your heart leads, that will always happen no matter what you do or think about it. I really didn't mean to argue, or disagree with you.
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FrankieN
Stranger
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"BTW, I never said I was tired of religious elitism- quote me saying it! I said I live above AND BELOW that line of thought. No elitisism there, just out of bounds. Multidimensional beings don't move along linear paths. They go up down forward backwards left and right and inside and outside. Not better or worse just different."
Correct, I definately misquoted, I see elitism and different-ism if you will as being almost one in the same. People like to think they are special and different, and they are free to be themselves, free will is an illusion.
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JacquesCousteau
Being.
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Listen man... just because people discuss being on "paths" does not mean that they are trying to set up a system so that they can say "I am further along the path than you."
I know some people dig the whole elitism bit, but keep in mind that that's an unfair over-generalization.
I agree with Zorbman that you are on a path and you don't know it.
I think everyone's on one. But, they're not comparable. They're not the SAME path. Everyone has their OWN path. It is "the path" (a metaphorical term) which you are following by following your heart.
I understand that you want to avoid the possibility of getting into an elitest mindset, but just because you refer to your spiritual growth and awareness as "a path" doesn't mean you will be elitest.
I follow my heart. I want to learn and grow in every possible direction, too.
Who ever said my path was a straight line? :P
Everyone has a path, it's undeniable. It is the path in which you live life. If you have to pee, your path leads you to the bathroom. Know'm sayin'? Just because you think of a path as a linear thing leading you somewhere doesn't mean it has to be.
Just'm my 2 cent'ums.
Edit: This is for whoever's gonna chime in about how the path we're talking bout is a spiritually metaphorical path and not a physical path:
Everything in life is spiritual if you choose to make it spiritual. Constant awareness leads us to find spiritual moments at all times in life if we choose to look.
Or, in other words, spirituality and day to day existance are one and the same if you choose.
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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day to day existence is time traveling :P
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Disclaimer!?
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JacquesCousteau
Being.
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Re: We all are NOT................. [Re: Gomp]
#3125348 - 09/12/04 07:57 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Indeed. 
We're all flying through time and space together.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Wow!
When I put this post up, I had no idea what would come of it if anything. Quite interesting!
It started because I felt as if an assumption was being made about me, of what I should do, to see something the way someone else does. The biggest assumption was that I had never seen things from that perspective before without consideration that I may have and have shifted from it since.
Even after I had made the statement in that thread that the only true master is the one that masters no one and is mastered by none. The beauty in that goes beyond words. It's the epitome of balance, nuetralization, and equalization.
Someone had to tell me that Masters are real, meaning there are people more spiritually mastered then others when I disagreed with that. It's funny how I got turned into an elitist over it. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I read this thread and realise how often assumptions are made regarding one beleiving that others see thing the way they do in this mindset that it's the only way for it to be seen.
What if I am actually still and space time is moving through me? Where's the path? Moving through me as I create and draw experience to me.
What if I am time jumping?
What if my spiritual goals are constantly changing, many before they are even met? A few months ago it was to crack the anti gravity mystery "solving how to levitate". Then it was to solve the false merkaba cosmic caper- left off partially solved. Then it was to rebalance and ground out better. What if an ongoing goal is not follow ANY paths or maps already walked by others or even myself in past lives but to pioneer new territory for myself or areas I am not even aware of anyone exploring yet?
Where is the path in all of that?
I believe the only thing that never changes is change. What if I am on that path, exploring the nature of changing paths or even being on no path just for the fuck of it? Can changing paths and finding the no path be a path? Why not as a concede to the need for people to have us all on paths. It's not my trip though.
It was said the to argue we are different is the same as being elitist because in that persons mind, differnt means "more speacial". Why does different have to mean more special or inequal in value and purpose? That was a total projection of ones views on what our pointed out differences mean.
What if I am anchoring in a feeling energy of soverign individuation while moving into my feeling of interconnected oneness with all things to ground out being "a part of" while "being apart" from, in my own experiences? What if I am seeking stability in that quest for my own reasons?
It came up here twice that even though we are all on our own individual paths that we all have the same ultimate goal in common. I disagreed with that and put up a post to see if that was the case and if I was missing something. Look at it so far, it's the "What is....." post.
if we have the same ultimate goal in common, it's beyond me and surely not evident in that post. I would love to see it summed up there and have everyone agree on it.
Someone might say, well everyone does have the same common goal and they just don't know it's what they are after. Is that the common goal? No one knows what the fuck it is we are really after? How do you contain an answer to that question as in "one size fits all"?
I think it's something people say to feel in unity with others, moving as one. That belief can even help one to seek out commonalities and build bridges of united harmony. Thats cool!
Why can't we be in united harmony moving as differentiated by experiences individuals of the one? Solve that one and we'll be getting somewhere.
I don't want to argue with anyone about all of this. It's been fantastic to experience this thread and I greatly appreciate all of the thoughful replies to it. There was lots of emotion here and something powerful lies beneath the topic to better understand. It's a fun study!
 shroomerites
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Frog
Warrior
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Jiggy: I care not to battle religious elitism. You said that. Religions can feel as right about what they beleive as they want to. I posted letting such types know that not everyone here wants their rightiousness shoved in our face as if we are wrong for not being on a religious path and somehow don't understand . Anyone who feels as I do most likely has already been on one or many and walked away from it.
I haven't seen religious elitism here. I see a lot of people talking about their beliefs, religious or not, but I don't see it shoved in anyone's face. I don't think that would be allowed to happen, actually.
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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
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Basically ask yourself what will stop your spiritual development? When will you no longer seek out more - when will you be "complete". This epitome of instantaneous spiritual fulfillment must be similar once all the illusions of individuality and boundaries are dissolved, and therefor - the end will be the same. However, we have each created our own maze of self that we must first navigate through, which is why we are different in the sense you are referring to.
However, we are all the same person.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: We all are NOT................. [Re: Frog]
#3125618 - 09/12/04 10:45 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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You don't shove frog. You state your beliefs and are very accepting of others. You set a great example here for that and I think I noted that in my rating of you. You rock frog!
It's funny to re-read what I said last night. Damn, what was I so intense about? LOL
Shoving was a strong word indeed. I think I have issues with religions putting Masters up on pedastals. It makes them unreachable and can have one beleiving there is something better to become that one already isn't. It was the whole masters thing that set me off.
To become inspired by someone is one thing. To want to be just like someone because they are portrayed as being better for something is another. It preys on insecurites. However, it can also highlight a persons insecurites for them to work on it if they beleive others are better.
I have issues with the leader follower stuff in general. I like the idea of groups contained of self lead individuals. That is what I love about this message board. It is a group of self lead individuals overall, more so then another I have participated in.
It's interesting sometimes just to throw ideas out there and see where the dust settles. This thread to me is like what jaques said in another. I am being the observer of the thinker, plurals, all of the thinkers who put thoughts here.
back to your reply, if Zahid isn't pushing religious elitism in the OTD then I don't know what religious elitism is. Have you read the wars going on over there with him? 
I was energetically engrossed reading in OTD last night. That explains why I got so intense. I am banning myself from that forum. LOL
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: We all are NOT................. [Re: deff]
#3125651 - 09/12/04 10:56 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've been on the same page with ya deff all the way through. Where we shift pages is the idea of becoming complete as if that is the common goal.
The idea that we are not complete is a part of the illusion set up here. We are already complete and are just in the process of realising it in this form.
Your telling people we are not complete is one of the issues i am addressing because it supports the illusion of lack and unfullfillment.
Now if we consider that we already are complete and are just looking to realise that, the game changes and we start acting as you mentioned.
Everything we are searching for in the goal to become complete and fullfilled is RIGHT IN FRONT OF OUR NOSES and we just can't see all of it yet. The way i see it, what we are really doing is just shedding light on it being there, allowing ourselves to see and realise what has always been.
Esentially, we are saying the same thing, only coming at it from two different directions.
Food for thought!
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
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Yeah I understand the infinite cycle effect you are describing, but I was referring to completion as in no longer attempting to achieve spiritual development, as in one has already looked within and the illusions have dissolved. Yes we are all enlightened right now, but not consciously, as we are illusioned into believing otherwise. Sure, you may say that this means there are no boundaries, in a physical sense, but these illusions are what I meant as boundaries - what prevents the awareness of enlightenment (or other spiritual fulfillment term - whatever the case may be for the individual like you pointed out).
We are here to be, to exist as a part of the whole, yet realizing our true self as nothing - we become the whole - of nothing.
Anyways, I feel we're on the same page but we're just reciting it differently
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Frog
Warrior
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Jiggy: It's interesting sometimes just to throw ideas out there and see where the dust settles. This thread to me is like what jaques said in another. I am being the observer of the thinker, plurals, all of the thinkers who put thoughts here.
Yep. That's what I like to do. I get an idea, or thought, and I wonder about it, and then before I've thought it out too far, I will post just to see what the response is. It's funny the different directions a thread can take. Sometimes directions that I didn't think of.
And thanks for being here, Jiggy.
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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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