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Frog
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This thread is not about anal intercourse!!!
#3108735 - 09/08/04 03:34 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Or maybe I should have titled the thread, "Is there anything wrong with being paid to have sex?" I was having a meeting with these two clowns, er, I mean, associates today, and even though attorneys are usually moral, ethical human beings, somehow we got into this discussion on what is the least amount of money you would take to have sex with someone. I said I would not take any amount of money for sex. Of course they scoffed at me. I asked them how much money would they want to be paid to have sex. I told these two guys that it couldn't be a girl paying them for sex cuz that would be too easy. They would probably just be happy to get laid and wouldn't care if she didn't pay them. I told them it had to be sex with a guy, anal style. One of the guys said that if he was given $100 million, a guy could do him, and that guy's whole neighborhood could do him, too. The other guy said that he would let at least one guy do him for $100 million. So they were pretty graphic for a while, but then they came back to me, and for what price would I have sex with someone. I stood my ground. They said that I basically "whore" myself out for money because I make appearances for other attorneys. I said that there is a difference between using one's talents as marketable commodities to earn a living, and being a prostitute or whore. They said that prostitutes are talented, too. I explained that money doesn't matter. (Didn't we have this conversation last night???) I would feel soiled if I had sex for money. I would rather earn money by working for it. But then I came down to the bottom line (I think it's the bottom line): Is sex for money wrong? I have my focus for why sex for money is wrong on the bible, which says not to have sex outside of marriage, basically. So I don't sleep around. But I realize that many of you don't believe in the bible. Is there another reason that having sex for money is wrong? I tried explaining to these guys that we are really spiritual beings inside these physical bodies, and that we should treat our bodies as temples for our souls/spirits. By having sex with someone just for money, or even just for pleasure, are we not dirtying our temple? Just like we shouldn't put things such as nicotine, alcohol, and such in our bodies that contaminate, isn't having sex with different people another type of contamination? I've read that when you have sex with someone, you are having sex with everyone that they had sex with. Eeeewwwww. So. To all genders here: Would you let a guy have sex with you for money? And if so, how much money? And if not, why not?
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
Edited by Frog (09/13/04 09:36 PM)
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3108751 - 09/08/04 03:40 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said: the bottom line (I think it's the bottom line): Is sex for money wrong?
How can it be wrong to pay for something which is given away for free?
Quote:
Would you let a guy have sex with you for money?
I'm a guy. No, because it's not something I would be comfortable with and would end up regretting it.
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BleaK
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3108796 - 09/08/04 03:47 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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passion isnt dirty.
money might be.
-------------------- "You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
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deff
just love everyone
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3108809 - 09/08/04 03:49 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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In my view, there is no wrong. So the answer to your question is no (I'm sorry my view's not helpful for the discussion )
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TheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3108836 - 09/08/04 03:54 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Another question comes up which is; what's the difference between someone who would have sex for money and someone who wouldn't? Anyway, I would feel that cack every time I spent the money. Just couldn't do it. The only stipulation would be if the entire Earth was signed over to me and I could make it nice again. I'd take one in the ass for you guys.
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BleaK
paradox
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: TheHateCamel]
#3108843 - 09/08/04 03:56 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheHateCamel said:
The only stipulation would be if the entire Earth was signed over to me and I could make it nice again. I'd take one in the ass for you guys.
ty.
-------------------- "You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
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JacquesCousteau
Being.
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: TheHateCamel]
#3108904 - 09/08/04 04:07 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheHateCamel said: The only stipulation would be if the entire Earth was signed over to me and I could make it nice again. I'd take one in the ass for you guys.
Ahahahaha.. That's golden, man.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3108932 - 09/08/04 04:12 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Revelation: How can it be wrong to pay for something which is given away for free? What do you mean?? I'm not really talking about having free sex between two consenting adults, but I suppose we can go there if you want. It can't be free if you're paying for it, as my question suggests. Revelation: I'm a guy. No, because it's not something I would be comfortable with and would end up regretting it. Revelation!!! ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS!!! Did you miss that part??? Bleak: passion isnt dirty. money might be. ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS!!! Deff: In my view, there is no wrong. So the answer to your question is no But would you "feel that cack every time [you] spent the money?" (hehe) TheHateCamel: The only stipulation would be if the entire Earth was signed over to me and I could make it nice again. I'd take one in the ass for you guys. Thank you, HateCamel!!
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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jux
I'm better thanan STD!
Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3108943 - 09/08/04 04:15 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Jesus said it that it doesn't matter what one puts into the body. If you'll recall, Jesus did drink his wine, and it was good. And seeing as how having sex is an act of pleasure, well, I just can't buy into that whole "soil the temple" bull.
But, let's ignore the bible completely, as it is a waste of my time. Let us instead focus on your question of right and wrong. Prostitution is the oldest institution known to humanity, outdating even aggriculture. It is part of human life, the exchange of sex for goods, services, or currency. Many of the earliest females of our species could be viewed as prostitutes, exchanging sex for protection and meat. I don't see how it could possibley be wrong.
The other question, would I sleep with a guy is more akin to would you, as a female, have sex with another woman for money. Completely a different situation. For the question to be fair, it should be whether I would have sex with the opposite sex for money. The answer is yes, if someone thought I was worth paying for, then why not? But, if you insist on having the question answered, yes, I'd have sex with a guy for money. Realistically, to endure an hour of disspleasurable activity for a large amount of money that is otherwise difficult to obtain sounds ideal to me. Hell, I'd do it for a grand, easy.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: jux]
#3108988 - 09/08/04 04:23 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Hell, I'd do it for a grand, easy." You sound like a cheap date. In response to the rest of your post... I would feel dirty. But why would I feel dirty? Is it due to the indoctrination I underwent during childhood, being raised Catholic, and then being Christian? I would have to disassociate my mind from my body in order to give it to someone for money. I don't think I could do it. You could give me the most gorgeous man in the world. Hell, make it Brad Pitt. I couldn't go to bed with him for money. There's just something wrong with using your body to obtain money, even apart from God and the bible. Maybe it's because even animals can rut. Animals don't have to use higher thought processes to figure out how to survive in this world. Yes, 100 Million dollars is a lot of fuckin' money. I'd rather earn it by using my intellect than using my body. It seems cheap to obtain it by using one's body.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Muppet
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3109049 - 09/08/04 04:34 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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but isn't it equally as 'cheap' to use one's intellect to earn the money? what makes intellect > sexual prowess .......... Thus Spake Muppet
-------------------- Ravings of a Madman
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Muppet]
#3109110 - 09/08/04 04:46 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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(Keep in mind that I am trying to figure this out, myself. So I will discuss and argue, but I'm not absolutely sure about my position yet. )
It would seem to me, as I stated in my prior post, that even animals "do it". I don't think it takes much intelligence to get laid.
However, it takes quite a bit of intelligence to go to college, get a degree, and enter a career. It also takes stamina and drive and other character assets.
What does it take to have sex? How many different ways can you give a blow job? How many ways are there? How many positions are there in bed? I mean, seriously, I like sex, it's a lot of fun, but has anyone ever gotten a degree in "Sex"?
If there are any hookers in this forum, I'd like to hear from you! Join in!
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Alan Stone
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: jux]
#3109303 - 09/08/04 05:23 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Realistically, to endure an hour of disspleasurable activity for a large amount of money that is otherwise difficult to obtain sounds ideal to me.
How would you know if it's displeasurable if you haven't tried? That's like saying: I bet I wouldn't enjoy burning something and inhaling the fumes.
For a hundred million dollars? Sure, if the movie rights aren't included in that amount. If you consider selling yourself to earn quick cash unethical, you'll have to consider promoting your career by dressing sexy just as unethical, because in both cases people are improving your situation because you appeal to their carnal desires.
-------------------- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
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Muppet
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3109366 - 09/08/04 05:33 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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this whole idea is intellectually bankrupt to begin with
for anything like this to actually happen in real life - *someone* would have to be willing to pay X amount of dollars to have sex with someone...and the person they chose to hand their money to would have to 'earn' that money in some manner or another - be it by natural looks alone, or meticulous matience of their body, or years of practicing the perfect techniques to get guarenteed results no matter what the circumstances, or whatever
much in the same way as anyone wanting to make that kind of money pursuing the intellectual route would have to (as you mentioned earlier) go to college, get a degree, enter into a career, and so on...
many people take the route you're talking about, and few are ever worth a hundred million dollars (even after years and years and years of total commitment) yet alone able to achieve that kind of money in one fell swoop
many people are prostitutes, and few are ever worth a hundred million dollars (or whatever other exhorbent amount of money you'd wish to substitute) yet alone able to achieve that kind of money in one fell swoop
you're argument for intellectualism vs sensuality deals primarily with the time/energy/effort that is put into working one's way up the ladder of success...but you fail to realize that this same 'structure' works with all things regardless of their nature
believe it or not - there are actually high dollar prostitutes out there that will bring in several thousand dollars a night...they take their jobs very seriously, they work hard to move up into those types of positions (through networking with powerful people) they put a whole ton of effort into insuring their customers get the best quality entertainment money can buy...but most importantly - they remain very professional throughout the whole ordeal
the means one takes to make their money isn't what matters - it's the way they present themselves, the effort they put into it, and so on and so forth that truely sets the professionals apart from the amatures
some random inexperienced 'whore' being handed $100mil for a few hours of work would be roughly equivilant to dragging some bum off the street, asking him to fill out a simple questionair to determine his intellectual competency, and then simply handing him a fat paycheck for spending a couple of hours to prove he knows the basics of accounting
how many ways are there to crunch numbers after all
..........
Thus Spake Muppet
-------------------- Ravings of a Madman
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deafpanda
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Muppet]
#3109701 - 09/08/04 06:38 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Jux has it spot on, I think. I'd have sex with anything for money, if the price was right. I'm not sure how much, but if a guy waved a grand in my face I'd have to think about it.
I mean, what's the worst that can happen? It's just a bodily sensation after all. Easy to dissasociate yourself from it. That guy who said $100 million is kidding himself. Unless he's already filthy rich.
I mean, a short period of discomfort for a lifetime of not having to work should sway any rational being.
My body is a temple, but its my temple and I will use it as I wish. I don't believe in a judging god/force, you see, it doesn't make sense to me.
To Frog (or anyone else who wouldn't whore themselves out ): how is this different to other activities that you may be paid for which you would normally not consent to? Do you feel that the act of sex is sacred? If so, why?
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silversoul7
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3109745 - 09/08/04 06:48 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Three-fiddy
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Revelation
ॐ
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: deafpanda]
#3109800 - 09/08/04 06:58 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I wouldn't do it because being filthy rich is not that important to me, and is certainly less important than whoring out my physical form for the root of all evil.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3109823 - 09/08/04 07:03 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've discussed a similar vein with my Lady about strippers and their clubs in Miami. In my entire life I've probably been in a strip club maybe a dozen times, and once was to educate a 31 year old childhood friend who had Never seen a naked woman! Other times were with out of town friends, my brother, or my Lady. I showed her another point of view about feeding these girls a stream of money.
I asked her to look at a lot of these men. It was pretty clear that many of them, from the looks of 'em, were never going to have the pleasure of being so close to a beautiful naked woman, and they were in truth starved for that honor. Yes, honor. There was a long period in the history of ancient cultures when the Goddess in the form of Venus or Aphrodite or Ishtar was venerated. Intercourse with one of her Priestesses was a Hierosgamos - a Sacred Marriage. Even today, I saw 'Cathouse II' about the brothel in Vegas, in which a 'john' tells the blond the next morning: "You'll have to convert," in semi-jest, but the paunchy Jewish client was obviously 'smitten,' 'enamored,' 'infatuated,' perhaps even 'in love' with his $2000.00 per hour goddess.
Without delving into the psychological and spiritual handicaps of today's secular, rabidly materialistic strippers and prostitutes, I can tell you from the perspective of a man who loves feminine beauty that although I have never done so, if I had to pay for That which I considered Feminine Beauty (I'm not speaking of Love here), I would probably do so. It is not banal lust - I know guys who will f**k anything human and female that presents herself. I realize that women also appreciate the beauty of the male form, but I do not get the same depth of need for male beauty that males get from the female form. It is as much an admiring as a desiring, as much elevating of the heart as it is erecting of the penis, as much awe as it is lust.
I haven't answered your question, but there will always be those who will sell their bodies, and for relatively little, compared to the consequences to one's inner life. No one is gonna pay your clowns anything for sex, but I wonder what they're revealing through the safety-fantasy of 100 Million, that one secretly fantasizes about an anal gang-bang, whereas both have it in their minds to practice sodomy, but camouflage it with an absurd condition? Hmmmm. Feel free to pass on this bit of analysis to the clowns. Did I say 'anal-ysis'? Oh yeah, I'm a therapist. Whoops, did I say 'the-rapist' ? Whoops again, better quit while I'm 'a-head.' Oh no...
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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deafpanda
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Quote:
I haven't answered your question, but there will always be those who will sell their bodies, and for relatively little, compared to the consequences to one's inner life
But that's the thing - I don't understand what possible consequences there could ever be to your inner life. I'm certain there wouldn't be any for mine.
Quote:
but I wonder what they're revealing through the safety-fantasy of 100 Million, that one secretly fantasizes about an anal gang-bang, whereas both have it in their minds to practice sodomy, but camouflage it with an absurd condition?
Are you saying that because I would accept money for gay sex I am a closet homo? Does that mean that people who work for money secretly really want to work?
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3109878 - 09/08/04 07:15 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"the bottom line (I think it's the bottom line): Is sex for money wrong?"
I don't keep company with prostitutes, and I am married, but the answer is no.
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Ekstaza
stranger than most
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3109945 - 09/08/04 07:28 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I once befriended a prostitute that I got to know very well. I spent a good deal of time talking to her about life and what she and I wanted out of it. One day I asked her why she did what she did. The deal was that she was contracted for 6 months to work as a stripper/prostitute in Bosnia and in return she would recieve enough money to put herself through college back in Moldavia (SP) (close to Romania). She said that without that opportunity she would not have had a chance to go to school. She believed that it was worth it to be able to get an education.
-------------------- YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: deafpanda]
#3109974 - 09/08/04 07:36 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Of course there are consequences for treating sexual intercourse as a commodity. There are consequences for every thought, emotion, impulse, fantasy, desire and every other aspect of consciousness that arises within us, particularly if they are recurrent and trace 'pathways' in our psyches. There isn't a religion or wisdom-tradition on the planet that doesn't have particular regard for prostitution - mostly negative since, as I said, Sacred Prostitution no longer exists in the current era of humankind. Perhaps in the future, when Patriarchal religion becomes matched with Matriarchal religion, when Israel's YHVH will again be worshipped along with His Asherah - the Hebrew Goddess, then once again, as it once was in Solomon's Temple, Sacred Prostitution will be reinstated.
Sexuality can be Sacred (as in one's own Hierosgamos, in Holy Matrimony), or it can be Profane. My life is the Alchemical transmutation of Profane into Sacred, Lead into Gold, and this runs through all of my inner and outer life - particularly my sexual life.
Everyone is physically capable of performing hetero and homo sexual acts, but if one says 'yes' to the possibility of performing a homosexual act, not just in words but in intention and assumably with some desire to do so (money or not as motivator) than at the very least one must necessarily admit to bisexual tendencies. Nobody is going to offer me money for sex, but my consideration of the possibility of homosexual sex belies some degree of homosexual fantasy plain and simple.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Lizard_King
Twisted from theother side ofDeath
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3110000 - 09/08/04 07:41 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Only for love.
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deff
just love everyone
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A hitman doesn't have to be a murderer on the side
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deafpanda
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Quote:
Of course there are consequences for treating sexual intercourse as a commodity. There are consequences for every thought, emotion, impulse, fantasy, desire and every other aspect of consciousness that arises within us, particularly if they are recurrent and trace 'pathways' in our psyches.
There is meaningful sex, and there is non-meaningful sex. If I choose to attach significance to something, it has significance. If I don't, it doesn't. There are no negative consequences, in my opinion, of treating some sex as meaningless. Drunk sex in nightclub toilets is as meaningless as it gets, but its just a bit of fun. There's nothing morally wrong with it, if its consensual, nothing my psyche needs to repress, nothing my conscience will haunt me for.
I am intrigued, though, as to what you think the actual mechanism for this assault on ones inner life is. I mean, if my rational mind sees nothing wrong with it, my emotions are not offended by it, what judge knows a priori that it is wrong and brings these consequences?
Quote:
Everyone is physically capable of performing hetero and homo sexual acts, but if one says 'yes' to the possibility of performing a homosexual act, not just in words but in intention and assumably with some desire to do so (money or not as motivator) than at the very least one must necessarily admit to bisexual tendencies
Hmm...I think you are using a weird definition of bisexual. To my knowledge, a bisexual person has an actual desire to have sex with both genders. While I have no desire to have sex with men, I would for money. Call me greedy or shallow, if you will, but I don't think that makes me bisexual.
I mean, I am not a golfer, and I have no desire to play golf, but I would play golf for money. This goes for almost anything.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: deafpanda]
#3110105 - 09/08/04 08:09 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deafpanda said: Jux has it spot on, I think. I'd have sex with anything for money, if the price was right. I'm not sure how much, but if a guy waved a grand in my face I'd have to think about it.
Whore!!
Quote:
My body is a temple, but its my temple and I will use it as I wish. I don't believe in a judging god/force, you see, it doesn't make sense to me.
I don't judge anyone for the choices they make in life. And for the sake of honesty, I was in a stripper bar in Houston on Friday night. I love a naked female body.
But I personally couldn't use my body for sex, for money. It just feels wrong. I'm still not absolutely positive yet as to "why".
I don't even know if God judges people like that. So I'm certainly not going to. Not my place.
Quote:
To Frog (or anyone else who wouldn't whore themselves out ): how is this different to other activities that you may be paid for which you would normally not consent to? Do you feel that the act of sex is sacred? If so, why?
As I said earlier, there seems to me to be a difference between being a prostitute and being a professional person. I would feel bad about myself for taking my clothes off for someone, whom I don't love, and having sex, for payment.
However, I have no problem keeping my clothes on and selling my services for payment, in my job. There's a big difference. There's something niggling at the back of my brain, and I just can't figure out what it is.
Yes, sex to me is sacred. I'm not going to push my beliefs on anyone. As Markos said, there are guys who will never get close to a beautiful woman if he didn't pay for it, or go to a stripper bar. So if there are women willing to do it, and men willing to pay for it, I'm not going to spoil the party.
But I believe in two people being in love, and the most deepest intimacy is the act of intercourse (and whatever else goes along with it). Sex for the sake of sex, or for the sake of money, is just wrong.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: deafpanda]
#3110146 - 09/08/04 08:17 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I would have to agree that having anal sex with a guy, if I was a guy, would not make me a homosexual. But the dilemma was that these two guys were both very heterosexual, so offering them a woman, and saying she would pay them, well, of COURSE they would do it!
But what about something that you feel strongly against, could you do it for money?
If I feel strongly against having sex for money, I'm not going to do it no matter how much money is offered. Good for the girl that someone mentioned, that she had sex for money in order to pay her way through college.
I just think it is demeaning to a person to have sex for money.
I will probably have to go do some research to figure out why I think this way. Do you think it has anything to do with our culture? When I was in high school, a girl who would "do it" with guys was a slut. Her reputation was ruined. That was about 25 years ago. What's it like these days?
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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deafpanda
Stranger
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3110173 - 09/08/04 08:22 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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But I believe in two people being in love
Me too
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and the most deepest intimacy is the act of intercourse (and whatever else goes along with it).
Agreed
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Sex for the sake of sex, or for the sake of money, is just wrong.
And this is where I disagree...you see, I draw a distinction between sex for fun and sex for love. Although the latter is fun too. I just see it as a fun activity that takes two people, something that I can't do on my own (or at least not as well ), just as long as the other person is aware of this thats okay with me.
Alternatively it can be an intensely intimate and personal thing between two lovers. Set and setting, LOL
Each to their own, though.
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deafpanda
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3110216 - 09/08/04 08:30 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
But what about something that you feel strongly against, could you do it for money?
I don't think I could kill. In fact I'm pretty sure I couldn't.
To be honest, there's not a lot I wouldn't do for money. Anything that would kill or seriously hurt people present or future I wouldn't do for any amount of money (unless they agreed to it, then I might).
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Do you think it has anything to do with our culture?
Probably a little, but I think everyone finds non-consensual sex faintly disgusting, its just that people have different price threshholds for it .
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When I was in high school, a girl who would "do it" with guys was a slut. Her reputation was ruined. That was about 25 years ago. What's it like these days?
Girls that "do it" with lots of guys are still seen as sluts, but the attractive ones are popular, the ugly ones are dirty bitches.
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3110293 - 09/08/04 08:43 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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no I wouldn't have sex with a guy for any amount of money.
satan's little business cards would not even be close to worth taking it up the arse.
is sex for money wrong??? no, I wouldn't be one to say that at all. I can only speak for myself, and I wouldn't ever pay for sex, cause love is free!
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
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Loc: oz
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3110307 - 09/08/04 08:46 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"I don't even know if God judges people like that"
i know this is a little offtopic...but why would god put coniditions on poeple (ie judge them)
if it has infinite wisdom, and love, then why would a powerful being like that judge us?
doesn't make sense to me
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3110589 - 09/08/04 09:40 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well..
I'm going to say I wouldn't take a man-meat suppository for money.
But if I actually saw $100 million in front of me? WTF who knows. That's more money than I could -ever- spend, I'm not exactly the sort of person who buys things often. Honestly I don't know WHAT sort of factors would come into play in making my decision and I don't really want to think of them. Eck.
Money for sex.. not a problem in my book, but then again, I look of it less like buying a cheeseburger and more like putting a Fiver in the dish at church -- not paying for the sex, but paying because you need some way to show appreciation.
I really doubt that's the general view of things though.
"Fat chicks need lovin too.. they just gotta pay[\i]."
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3110723 - 09/08/04 10:10 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"I don't even know if God judges people like that" I know it is common for people to think of God as a fellow sitting on a throne somewhere watching everything, eyeing the price of Hondas this year. But that is not so. If you understand the metaphysical truth of the world, you will see God more as an energy than as a person. The God-force is not involved in human emotion. In other words, God has no emotional attachment to owning a new digital-diddly that opens the cat flap in the front door, or place value over what you choose to lodge in your anus. Here is a great analogy, considering the notion that every natural fact is symbolic of a spiritual fact: The sun rises beyond the horizon and shines upon all of the world, upon the just and the unjust.. with equal radiance. The beams touches the faces of the guilty with equal blinding brilliance as it gives to the innocent. The luminosity gives all it's energy fully and equally to all beings. This, is the Grace.. of God. The Tao. Nature sustains and gives value to nothing, as does the energy of God that is within all of us as our essence.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3110764 - 09/08/04 10:17 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm going to go ahead and say I'd do it for the price of one billion dollars, IF the guy meets the following conditions:
1. No STD's 2. Not too big 3. Uses lots of lube 4. Is gentle 5. Doesn't last too long 6. I never have to see or hear about him again
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Philanthropist
Savior ofMankind
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3110909 - 09/08/04 10:42 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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First of all I believe anything that has to do with money is wrong unless it is used for the necessities that mankind needs so that necessities are worthless and mankind can focus on better things.
Giving Anal sex is my favorite and I have never received. I especially enjoy getting oral after anal. This makes me think about the 70s and 60s when AIDS didn't exist. I swear if I was alive then I would put my seed in every single girl I met!! Love and sex do not go together as much as people believe in my opinion. I feel sex is more of a fleshy material thing and love is more of a spiritual emotional thing. Thats probably why my relations do not last that long....Too bad more women are freaks.
Freak n. - Defined as 1. not prude 2. open to anything 3. will do it so it feels the best
Hey Frog I wanna become a lawyer, any advice? PM me
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111043 - 09/08/04 10:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:10 PM)
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jux
I'm better thanan STD!
Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111198 - 09/08/04 11:19 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Maybe you should just love your body more. Being naked is fun
--------------------
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Zero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland
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Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111305 - 09/08/04 11:41 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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These are the discussions my friends have, or the people I also work with have, wtf is up with that? Always these crazy "circumstances".
" would you let a guy stick a beaver in your but, while you were sucking on the schlonge of a horse?"
Random friend, " id do it for that cigarette!"
Other random friend, " no way, at LEAST a million dollars"
Next Guy , " wtf is wrong with yall?"
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: silversoul7]
#3111324 - 09/08/04 11:44 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
silversoul7 said: I'm going to go ahead and say I'd do it for the price of one billion dollars, IF the guy meets the following conditions: 1. No STD's 2. Not too big 3. Uses lots of lube 4. Is gentle 5. Doesn't last too long 6. I never have to see or hear about him again
LMFAO!!! Okay, so you're a high-priced whore.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Zero7a1]
#3111360 - 09/08/04 11:52 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zero7a1 said: These are the discussions my friends have, or the people I also work with have, wtf is up with that? Always these crazy "circumstances".
" would you let a guy stick a beaver in your but, while you were sucking on the schlonge of a horse?"
Random friend, " id do it for that cigarette!"
Other random friend, " no way, at LEAST a million dollars"
Next Guy , " wtf is wrong with yall?"
Yeah, I hear ya. Funny part is that when me and those two guys were discussing this, me and one of the guys were really getting carried away. It was the guy who would only let one guy do him that finally said, "WTF is wrong with you two???" "Are you perverts?"
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
Warrior
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111416 - 09/09/04 12:00 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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There's so much to which to respond!!!
But I have to add something that I figured out tonight, while I was doing other stuff besides screwing around here.
I was talking to my guru ( ) and I asked him about why it's wrong to sell your body for money. He said because the bible and God say it's wrong.
I said, "No, pretend for a minute that the bible and God don't exist."
We argued for a bit, because he kept answering the question as if the bible and God exist. I was like, okay, please don't be so technical. I KNOW the bible and God exist. But if they didn't, what would the answer be?????
He said, "That's the problem. We are spirits, and we are connected to one another, and to God. If God doesn't exist, we would just be animals. We're not animals, so therefore God must exist. How could we disobey God if His word is that we are not to have sex without marriage?"
Well, stuff like that, anyways. But he made a good point. We're spiritual creatures. If God doesn't exist, we are merely animals. That makes all kinds of sex okay. It makes other things okay, too, though.
He compared it to murder and such. If we're going to say sex outside of marriage is okay, for whatever reason, then why not murder and theft and all those things? That's how animals live. We're not animals, and we can't pretend that God doesn't exist.
Of course, all you heathens that don't believe in God can pretend so.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
Warrior
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Posts: 4,284
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#3111432 - 09/09/04 12:02 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Matt, that was the best post by far on this subject, imo, but of course I'm biased towards your position because I feel the same way.
Everyone else can come yell at me now.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
Warrior
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Skorp: The sun rises beyond the horizon and shines upon all of the world, upon the just and the unjust.. with equal radiance. The beams touches the faces of the guilty with equal blinding brilliance as it gives to the innocent. The luminosity gives all it's energy fully and equally to all beings. This, is the Grace.. of God.
Very nice, Skorp.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111461 - 09/09/04 12:05 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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comparing sex to murder
here's what I mean...
the guru says this
"If we're going to say sex outside of marriage is okay"
replace it with this..
"If we're going to say murder outside of marriage is okay"
or this
"If we're going to say theft outside of marriage is okay"
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Frog
Warrior
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Posts: 4,284
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: kaiowas]
#3111509 - 09/09/04 12:12 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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What I think he was saying is that if you do away with some parts of the bible, you have to do away with all parts of the bible. He said that there was no moral code really (although I think I disagree...wasn't there the code of hammurabi???) before God gave the rules to Moses. And then of course Jesus came. We were basically sinners who needed redeeming because we couldn't be good for the life (or death) of us. So Jesus came and told us the rules, again.
If we're going to ignore one set of rules, why not all rules?
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111570 - 09/09/04 12:25 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:08 PM)
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111603 - 09/09/04 12:32 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"What I think he was saying is that if you do away with some parts of the bible, you have to do away with all parts of the bible." not at all. Why? I mean, I see the bible as a bunch of stories with an implied meaning in it, and lots of them are great! there are many inconsistences between the new and old testament alone, that if we used your reasoning here, you would have already decided to do away with "all parts of the bible" times have changed, and so has "the word" and I have viewed a lot of preachers, and a lot of point of views. And really, that's one of the great things about the bible, it leaves room for imagination. surely THE WORD would be ongoing instead of stagnant. you know what I mean? like every piece of philosophy and spirituality that comes forth from that book, is a piece of knowledge. And evertime you learn and apply knowledge, the more chances are there for self improvement. hence, it would be ongoing and infinite because someone is always going to have a different perspective. at least, that's what I think
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#3111638 - 09/09/04 12:39 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
mattzdope said: Good point. I'm going to jump into this other subject here real quick, cause I have a little comment. Stealing somthing, and murdering somebody are on two different levels. God knew when he gave Moses the 10 commandment's that they were going to be broken. They are just a mere model to live by under God's standards. We are supposed to TRY to live up to GOD himself. Is it possible??? I do away with a couple rules personally, but I hold true to many.
I personally do not follow all the rules either. I think we are just supposed to try.
Quote:
I believe God is a lenient, understanding being. I have stolen things in my life time, and no I am not proud of it.. Stealing candy, and cigarette's when I was a kid isn't going to send me into the fires of hell.. It made me less than perfect in god's eyes and standards, but not evil in his eyes at the same time. Taking a human life IMO is much different. God will punish those who take life.
I have done so many bad things. Before I got my shit together, I did a LOT of supposedly bad things. But I also believe that God is a lenient, understanding being. Like I also asked my guru, if I decided to start selling my body for money, but I love God as much as always, do I still get to go to heaven? Hmmm. I forget his answer.
(And this is where Swami steps in and says, in his skeptical voice, "Christians think they can do whatever they want and just ask for forgiveness." )
Quote:
They say rules are meant to be broken right?? The normal human being is going to break a couple of the rules.. Those who do not are truely PERFECT, and I haven't found any of these peoples yet.
I haven't met anyone who is perfect yet, either. I'm still looking. And actually, this is something I've been thinking about for the topic of another thread.
Quote:
Even the priests supposedly the MOST holy under god are up on molestation charges now, and the bishops, and pope have hid it for years...
They aren't truly "spiritual", those that molested children. Or maybe they are. I don't know. I have done bad things. No, I haven't molested a child. But my understanding of some stuff in the bible is that guilty of one sin, guilty of all sin.
Well, we're all on equal footing. If I judge the priest, I am judging myself. I'd rather be compassionate and see how God handles it, in the end.
Quote:
But hey, if anybody can follow the book line for line, then they are GOD, they shouldn't be labeled as one of us humans.
Agreed.
Quote:
Shit I don't know if this has anything to dop with any of your posts anymore and I dont want to lose this by going back so I'm just gonig to post it. hah.. Leave the drunkard alone!
I'll match you shot for shot.
I mean, no, I'm not drinking either. Wait, what was that last question????
But that's why I said I don't think God judges us like that. He knows each of us, in our hearts. That's why it's not my place to say. I don't know God's mind.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: kaiowas]
#3111653 - 09/09/04 12:42 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:08 PM)
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: kaiowas]
#3111659 - 09/09/04 12:43 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
kaiowas said: "What I think he was saying is that if you do away with some parts of the bible, you have to do away with all parts of the bible."
not at all. Why? I mean, I see the bible as a bunch of stories with an implied meaning in it, and lots of them are great! there are many inconsistences between the new and old testament alone, that if we used your reasoning here, you would have already decided to do away with "all parts of the bible"
times have changed, and so has "the word" and I have viewed a lot of preachers, and a lot of point of views. And really, that's one of the great things about the bible, it leaves room for imagination.
surely THE WORD would be ongoing instead of stagnant. you know what I mean? like every piece of philosophy and spirituality that comes forth from that book, is a piece of knowledge. And evertime you learn and apply knowledge, the more chances are there for self improvement. hence, it would be ongoing and infinite, cause someone is always going to have, a different perspective.
at least, that's what I think
Kaiowas, I understand your point, and I agree to an extent. Yes, the bible is full of stories, and yes, many of the stories aren't relevant to the way society is structured today.
However, the basic commandments will hold true for all generations. Do not covet, do not murder, etc. And the basic tenets in the bible, like don't have sex without being married...I don't think it matters whether it is 4 A.D. or 2004 A.D., "don't have sex outside of marriage" would seem to hold true in either era.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111663 - 09/09/04 12:45 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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why? where is its relevance now? if it's out of love.....is it good to deny it?
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
Edited by kaiowas (09/09/04 12:50 AM)
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: kaiowas]
#3111703 - 09/09/04 12:56 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I, personally, see it still as relevant in many respects. I am not going to argue that you should see it the same way as I see it. I understand your POV, and I am not going to shove my beliefs in the bible down your throat.
I think this is one of those impasses where we stop debating. I have never liked debating religion, abortion, or politics. My own personal preference. If someone wants to step into my shoes, I'll step down.
I mean, to a point, it's okay, but now we're getting into personal beliefs, and I am not here to change your mind, and you're not going to change mine.
Do I sound like a bitch? I don't mean to. It's just that although I believe strongly in what I believe, I'm concerned that if I continue on with you, I will sound like I'm trying to tell you that you should believe the way I do, and that's not what I'm doing.
(Where's that tequila? Where's Matt? )
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111727 - 09/09/04 12:59 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:08 PM)
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111796 - 09/09/04 01:13 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Frog said: I, personally, see it still as relevant in many respects. I am not going to argue that you should see it the same way as I see it. I understand your POV, and I am not going to shove my beliefs in the bible down your throat.
I think this is one of those impasses where we stop debating. I have never liked debating religion, abortion, or politics. My own personal preference. If someone wants to step into my shoes, I'll step down.
I mean, to a point, it's okay, but now we're getting into personal beliefs, and I am not here to change your mind, and you're not going to change mine.
Do I sound like a bitch? I don't mean to. It's just that although I believe strongly in what I believe, I'm concerned that if I continue on with you, I will sound like I'm trying to tell you that you should believe the way I do, and that's not what I'm doing.
(Where's that tequila? Where's Matt? )
!!!!!!
dude no sweat man! i didn't think you wouldn't want to go into that type of detail.
it was just that this thread was about people's personal beliefs
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#3111816 - 09/09/04 01:15 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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mattzdope said: YES! We are all suposed to try with all of our hearts is the message from what I understand of it anyways. It is nice to see somebody who agrees with me on that one, and the fact that you believe god is a very understanding being. I have also done some bad things in my life.. It gives me some hope!
Yes, just try. That's all. But we're human. I would write about all the things that I have done, but if I searched my brain, I probably wouldn't remember what I did, anyways. That's the nice thing about a brain like mine...Every day is a new day!
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On a serious note though. If you were to become a prostitute, and still loved god, and were mercifull to god I don't think that you would be punished by fire and brimstone, but who knows I don't know how god thinks either.. (got me all sketchy on what I say!!) From my understanding of the book I believe that you would pay for your bad deeds somewhere in this lifetime, not in the afterlife. Kinda like the old staying 'one hand washes the other'.
I like to think that God is not so harsh that if someone who believes in Him does something that's supposed to be wrong, that person will endure fire and brimstone.
As for paying for bad deeds, this is where I come in with saying that karma is not inconsistent with the bible. Maybe the reason God gave us rules isn't so that He could throw us into hell when we messed up. Maybe God gave us rules so that we could live right and not have to come back, over and over and over, trying to learn whatever lessons we are supposed to be learning.
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"Christians think they can do whatever they want and just ask for forgiveness."
I had a very religious kid I know say that to me one time except substitute the word Christians with Catholics. He himself was a christian but his religion works differently I guess. You can't just go to confession and wash away your sins in his religion.. Being from a hard-line Italian, Roman Catholic family, I DO NOT believe in confession as I should.. One of the many reasons why I myself was never confirmed Catholic... The priests are supposedly HOLIER then ourselves, but imo following my heart I believe that I am the only person who can talk to god when asking him for forgiveness for my sins.
I was raised Catholic until I was 18. I disagree, now, that the only way to talk to God is through a priest. I can talk to God any time I want, and sometimes what I say to God is, "WTF???"
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Shot for shot eh??? What are ya drinkin tonight??? All I've got is 2 12's of Mike's hard lemonade. Prolly why I'm not too drunk yet.. Ill go shot for shot with ya anytime with some good ole Vodka. My personal fav.. I don't mind Southern Comfort though.. Or a little taste of ICE 101.. ~shruggs~ Pick your poison!
Sigh. Although I mentioned tequila, I am drinking wine tonight. I have stuff to do very early in the a.m. But catch me Friday, when I will probably hit the hard stuff.
We can meet here at a designated time, after we are all drunk and shit, and discuss philosophy and religion.
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back tao the original topic.. even though you probably won't go to hell (but who knows????) your vagina is a sacred place to be treasured. The Vagina is the Hole that is crawled into to conceive human life. It is also the hole human life crawls out of peeking first light...
I just personally think that sex is sacred. I could be wrong. God could quite possibly be looking down on me, laughing that I can't go out and just get laid, for fun, or for money.
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edited to add: between checking up on this post im in my room sluggin down these mikes hards! and chasing them with cigarettes.. hehe..
Tequila???????? Ahhhh.. So you like your drinks potent eh??? Hmm.. Why not go for some 151???
Actually, I stick with wine during the week, when I want to unwind. On Fridays, it's either margaritas (and tequila shooters), gin martinis, or vanilla flavored vodka.
Of course, my pool game sucks at a certain point.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: kaiowas]
#3111876 - 09/09/04 01:27 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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kaiowas said:
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Frog said: I, personally, see it still as relevant in many respects. I am not going to argue that you should see it the same way as I see it. I understand your POV, and I am not going to shove my beliefs in the bible down your throat.
I think this is one of those impasses where we stop debating. I have never liked debating religion, abortion, or politics. My own personal preference. If someone wants to step into my shoes, I'll step down.
I mean, to a point, it's okay, but now we're getting into personal beliefs, and I am not here to change your mind, and you're not going to change mine.
Do I sound like a bitch? I don't mean to. It's just that although I believe strongly in what I believe, I'm concerned that if I continue on with you, I will sound like I'm trying to tell you that you should believe the way I do, and that's not what I'm doing.
(Where's that tequila? Where's Matt? )
!!!!!!
dude no sweat man! i didn't think you wouldn't want to go into that type of detail.
it was just that this thread was about people's personal beliefs
Dude! I know! Yer right!
I just read back over those few posts, and I see that I made a mistake. We know that we're (you and me) aren't trying to change each other's minds. We're just discussing details of our individual beliefs. It's just that I'm usually overly concerned that I will come off like I'm trying to make someone believe what I believe, and I lost my focus.
Um, what were we talking about?
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Mushmonkey
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111878 - 09/09/04 01:27 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not really hep on the bible very much myself, but didn't Jesus hang out with prostitutes?
Also, people got married much younger back in the day than they do now.. which means ya got to start havin sex much much earlier. Which means today we've got a much harder time with the whole no-sex-outside-marriage thing.. hell they couldnt even do that during the middle ages, and they got married hellishly early in life.
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111885 - 09/09/04 01:29 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:08 PM)
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Mushmonkey]
#3111906 - 09/09/04 01:35 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:07 PM)
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fungis_eata
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111924 - 09/09/04 01:39 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I am a male hooker. I will have sex with any attractive women on this thread by the name of frog for .....$1. If anal is your thing then so be it. never tried it bet i'm more than willing to experiment. I will not feel bad afterwards. infact, i will feel very relaxed because of the releace of energy that comes after it. I'll even spend the $1 on a condom to make it extra safe.
Now what if a woman is hungry and a guy takes her out to eat hoping to get laid. is that prostitution because money was involved with intitions of getting some. I do it all the time.haha i'm so miscivious. Maybe it could be a risky form of blind prostitution........or maybe i could be rambling about bullshit cause of the xanax...
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: fungis_eata]
#3111951 - 09/09/04 01:44 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:07 PM)
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fungis_eata
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111963 - 09/09/04 01:47 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'd just like to say that I had sex tonight....a few times with a girl that i know is not interested in a relationship. We were together for a long time and we're just not compatable. but she's good in bed and she feels the same way about me. do you see this as wrong?
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: fungis_eata]
#3111965 - 09/09/04 01:47 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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fungis!!! LMAO!!! $1??? More ROFLMAO!!!!
I know that what you wrote of goes on in dating, btw. I have never been that type of girl. But sometimes I think I was never meant to be a girl.
Yes, it's a type of prostitution, I suppose. If the guy buys the right dinner at the right place, she will go to bed with him.
However, the converse is true. (Is "converse" a word???) I went to lunch 3 times with a guy, who quit taking me to lunch after the 3rd time. I was like, WTF???? Why did he stop taking me out??? I had thought that he knew that I was kind of broke, and I thought he just enjoyed my company, and didn't mind spending money for lunch on me.
Turns out that if, by the 3rd date, a girl didn't put out, he was done with her. I countered that argument with, "Well, I didn't know we were dating! It was just lunch for chrissakes!"
Um, is a girl supposed to have sex in exchange for lunch? Is that the protocol these days? I thought dinner and dancing or somesuchshit was in order.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: fungis_eata]
#3111979 - 09/09/04 01:49 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:07 PM)
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3111994 - 09/09/04 01:51 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:07 PM)
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: fungis_eata]
#3112056 - 09/09/04 02:06 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
fungis_eata said: I'd just like to say that I had sex tonight....a few times with a girl that i know is not interested in a relationship. We were together for a long time and we're just not compatable. but she's good in bed and she feels the same way about me. do you see this as wrong?
It's not for me to say if it's wrong or not. Don't you see? Everyone has the opportunity to read the bible. I don't need to read it to you or lecture you.
If you read the bible and think it's a load of crap, then what you did with that girl is not wrong. If you read the bible and decide to believe in it, then gaving sex with someone with whom you are not married is wrong.
But personally, I don't care what you do with some girl. AGain, it's not my place to judge. I'm just pointing at the bible. Like, backing away from it, as I point, letting you glean whatever you will, deflecting attention away from myself.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#3112101 - 09/09/04 02:18 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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mattzdope said: Depends on what he paid and where he took ya..
just playin..
Edited to add: Hey aren't you an attorney???? I know attorney's make some good money, after personal experiences that I won't mention here. hah.. Are you criminal defense?? Those are the only type of attorney's I have delt with. Main question is, why were ya broke??
Went through a divorce. It was sad. I let my business go downhill. Well, there were other reasons it went downhill, but I am taking responsibility for the downhill action.
But all I cared about was having enough money for alcohol, food, and gas. It wasn't all that depressing, actually. See, I figured out things during that time period. I saw "life". I may be wrong in my conclusions, but it was a very revealing time for me.
I actually had a lot of fun, too. I have a friend who also posts here, just not as much as me. (Renegade???) She watched my back while I was going through all that.
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On another note, how does your husband feel about you going out on a casual lunch with a guy? Maybe I am just immature, but casual,professional, or not, if my girlfriend ever did that I'd be at the restaurant breaking one of those commandments over his head. haha
I'm not married right now, although I am seeing someone in Houston.
The general rule is that lunch is okay, but dinners are a no-no, unless there are a lot of people there. This seems to be the general rule with anyone I speak to on the subject.
And if you think your gf is screwing around on you, why would you break the guy's head? Why wouldn't you break HER head???
Are we off topic? Um, anal intercourse. Hrmm. How to get back on topic.
How do you get back on topic with that as a heading???
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3112146 - 09/09/04 02:29 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:07 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: deafpanda]
#3112448 - 09/09/04 05:58 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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It would seem that you have not yet differentiated your inner life by any 'higher' source of guidance. The mechanics of motivation have been well systematized and organized by not a few sacred models such as the psychic centers [chakras] found in Vajrayana Buddhism or the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. These are Transpersonal models that include but exceed and therefore transcend our rational evaluation of consciousness events. The rational mind is blind to pre-rational urges (as you yourself indicate by your own psychological blindspots that fail to grasp your comingled 2nd and 3rd chakra motivations for example - sex in the service of greed).
Neither have you grasped the moral implications of toilet-sex, or any pleasure-principle behavior that is not guided by a Higher Authority - a Higher Power, call it what you will, but there are obvious moral implications in a human who copulates in a drunken (semiconscious) and hence intentionally 'more animalistic' level of existence. There is no amorality among human beings. Even though never popular, Lawrence Kohlberg's 7th Stage of Moral development is the one which grounds morality is our higher spiritual nature, not merely in social processes and conventions. Whereas socially-based morality changes according to the mores of a changing society, spiritually based morality derives from a spiritual Absolute (another misunderstood and unpopular idea among those who do not understand real spiritual freedom).
Rutting like a drunken pig might bring animal satisfaction on that level, but one creates one's own being through everything we will, so what we become is a sum total of our freely willed experiences as well as our predetermined natures. We have choice over these freely willed acts, and many are not in our best interests IF human development is a value of ours.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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deafpanda
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Quote:
It would seem that you have not yet differentiated your inner life by any 'higher' source of guidance.
I'm not quite sure what differentiated means in this context, but I will say that while I believe in what I will call god for want of a better word, and give thanks/worship it in my own way, I have never looked to it for guidance in any recognisable sense of the word. On the few occasions when I have been "close" to "god", it has told me to live as I see fit. If that changes in the future, all well and good, but that's where I'm at now.
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The mechanics of motivation have been well systematized and organized by not a few sacred models such as the psychic centers [chakras] found in Vajrayana Buddhism or the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. These are Transpersonal models that include but exceed and therefore transcend our rational evaluation of consciousness events.
With respect, this is your belief, and the belief of some others that have considered this question. It is not everyone's belief, and cannot be proved to me unless I see it myself. I will look inside myself for the truth, taking someone elses metaphysical beliefs without direct or indirect experience is folly. As I said, I may change my beliefs later due to experiences I may have, but this is where I'm at right now.
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Neither have you grasped the moral implications of toilet-sex, or any pleasure-principle behavior that is not guided by a Higher Authority - a Higher Power, call it what you will, but there are obvious moral implications in a human who copulates in a drunken (semiconscious) and hence intentionally 'more animalistic' level of existence
Let me tell you how I came to my own conclusions about this.
In my explorations of my own consciousness, I have found no conscience. I have found no repressed subconscious unhealthy feelings or desires. I have found a rational mind, my emotions, and god. As I've said before, I don't believe god judges. This is because of my experiences and my reason. I have decided that it is up to me to try and find out what is good and what is bad, using my rational mind, and to act upon this.
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There is no amorality among human beings.
No, there is no amorality. There is morality and immorality and everything in between, but as I said before, with sex I see it as dictated very much by set and setting. If one party pins significance on it and the other doesn't, that's immoral. If both parties agree on the significance or lack thereof of it, that's fine.
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Even though never popular, Lawrence Kohlberg's 7th Stage of Moral development is the one which grounds morality is our higher spiritual nature, not merely in social processes and conventions
As I've said before, I don't believe that morality is in our higher spiritual nature. I can't reconcile this with my experiences. Neither do I believe that it is grounded in social processes and conventions - for me it is in the rational mind, not even the emotional mind, but the rational mind.
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Whereas socially-based morality changes according to the mores of a changing society, spiritually based morality derives from a spiritual Absolute (another misunderstood and unpopular idea among those who do not understand real spiritual freedom).
The idea that there is a spiritual absolute that knows a priori good from bad makes no sense to me. It's not that I don't want to believe it, it is just that it clashes so strongly with my experiences and my thoughts, I just can't believe it. I think that one of the most important things in life is to try and know good and bad, and act true to this knowledge.
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Rutting like a drunken pig might bring animal satisfaction
Yes, I like a bit of animal satisfaction sometimes. Animals have a certain integrity. Rolling around in the mud is a very animal thing to do, but it brings me great pleasure to do such things once in a while.
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but one creates one's own being through everything we will, so what we become is a sum total of our freely willed experiences as well as our predetermined natures.
I see the truth in this statement. There is animal in everyone, and I am happy to indulge this side of my character once in a while (although I've never been in a fight in my life).
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We have choice over these freely willed acts, and many are not in our best interests IF human development is a value of ours.
The way I see it, what I should do and what is best for me is to be true to myself. Being true to myself means incorporating every bit of knowledge and belief I have into my actions. Not doing so is pretending that some facts/beliefs of yours don't exist, which would be lying to myself. My knowledge and beliefs have been made fairly clear, I hope, in this post, and so you can see why my views on morality are as they are.
I am a very young man, and maybe one day I will find out that I have been wrong to think like this, but right now that is what I truly believe with all of my being and if I didn't let that dictate my actions then I would be lying to myself, and I'm sure you'll agree that's not a good thing to do.
Peace
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MAIA
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3112761 - 09/09/04 09:05 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I believe there's nothing wrong about earning money with sex. It's your body and your responsibility. Personally i wouldn't do it, i don't have such need.
MAIA
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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Ekstaza
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3112901 - 09/09/04 10:09 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here is an example of prostitution in nature.
http://www.blockbonobofoundation.org/ "It?s not just how they have sex, but how they use sex-- to maintain friendly relationships, to ease stress (e.g., Don?t be nervous, come here and sit on my face), as a form of commercial exchange (e.g., I?ll give you a blowjob if you give me a banana), and to reduce violent conflict. That is, they seem to use sex to make peace. And that, in a coconut shell, is why we love bonobos."
The article goes on to show how a more sexually open society allows for a more peacefull community.
Sexual sacredness is an illusion caused be thousands of years of indoctrination by thought police (i.e. the church and dominate male leaders who hold a double standard for the sexes).
And wait, before anyone gives me some shit about man being better than apes, I'd just like to point out that we aren't anything but the smartest monkeys on the rock. We are still only animals no matter how much we sit around thinking about it.
-------------------- YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.
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Ekstaza
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3112950 - 09/09/04 10:21 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Frog said:
He said, "That's the problem. We are spirits, and we are connected to one another, and to God. If God doesn't exist, we would just be animals. We're not animals, so therefore God must exist. How could we disobey God if His word is that we are not to have sex without marriage?"
Well, stuff like that, anyways. But he made a good point. We're spiritual creatures. If God doesn't exist, we are merely animals. That makes all kinds of sex okay. It makes other things okay, too, though.
He compared it to murder and such. If we're going to say sex outside of marriage is okay, for whatever reason, then why not murder and theft and all those things? That's how animals live. We're not animals, and we can't pretend that God doesn't exist.
Of course, all you heathens that don't believe in God can pretend so.
Why is it so hard to to believe that there can be accountability without some all powerful being looking over your shoulder?
Are the characters of ever single man, woman, and child so devoid of substance that there is no way that they can see right and wrong without a gods guidence?
I know through being self-aware, what things I want to happen to me and what things I don't want happening to me. I understand that all things being equal, most other people share the same wishes. Therefore I choose to do everything I can to make myself and every one else happy. Why do I wish to make others happy? Because it makes me happy.
There is no god that tells me to do right and wrong. There is no consequence of me doing wrong except my own displeasure.
Who desides what is right and wrong for each person? They do.
-------------------- YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.
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daba
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3112997 - 09/09/04 10:36 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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wtf...?
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Ekstaza]
#3113286 - 09/09/04 12:08 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ekstaza: Why is it so hard to to believe that there can be accountability without some all powerful being looking over your shoulder?
I don't feel like God is looking over my shoulder.
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Are the characters of ever single man, woman, and child so devoid of substance that there is no way that they can see right and wrong without a gods guidence?
For the most part, yes, I believe that most people are devoid of whatever substance it is that causes us to choose good over bad. This is the reason God saw fit to provide us with the 10 commandments, and then His own Son when we still wouldn't behave morally.
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I know through being self-aware, what things I want to happen to me and what things I don't want happening to me. I understand that all things being equal, most other people share the same wishes. Therefore I choose to do everything I can to make myself and every one else happy. Why do I wish to make others happy? Because it makes me happy.
There is no god that tells me to do right and wrong. There is no consequence of me doing wrong except my own displeasure.
Who desides what is right and wrong for each person? They do.
My opinion is that most people are not like you. I don't do "good" to please God, although I know God is pleased. I do good because it's right. Because of karma. Because I'm here to learn. Because I can't become a better person if I am taking the easy way out by cheating, lying, stealing, etc.
I don't believe that acts gets me into heaven. All I have to do is believe. But I will do good acts because it is the right thing to do.
(I have to start that other thread. This topic about bad people keeps coming up, and I don't want to divert the thread.)
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Ekstaza]
#3113301 - 09/09/04 12:13 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ekstaza said: Here is an example of prostitution in nature.
http://www.blockbonobofoundation.org/ "It?s not just how they have sex, but how they use sex-- to maintain friendly relationships, to ease stress (e.g., Don?t be nervous, come here and sit on my face), as a form of commercial exchange (e.g., I?ll give you a blowjob if you give me a banana), and to reduce violent conflict. That is, they seem to use sex to make peace. And that, in a coconut shell, is why we love bonobos."
The article goes on to show how a more sexually open society allows for a more peacefull community.
Sexual sacredness is an illusion caused be thousands of years of indoctrination by thought police (i.e. the church and dominate male leaders who hold a double standard for the sexes).
And wait, before anyone gives me some shit about man being better than apes, I'd just like to point out that we aren't anything but the smartest monkeys on the rock. We are still only animals no matter how much we sit around thinking about it.
There was a pretty cool thread about this topic, but Mr. Mushrooms deleted all his posts, so we can't read what he wrote any longer.
No, we're not just animals. Well, maybe YOU are, but I'm not. And I looked at the site on those bonobos. You would compare humans to monkeys that act out on sexual urges whenever one arises?
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Swami
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3116458 - 09/09/04 10:51 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not married right now, although I am seeing someone in Houston. Didn't you say that sex outside of marriage was a no-no for Christian women?
The general rule is that lunch is okay, but dinners are a no-no, What about a heavy make-out session in a parking garage?
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Swami]
#3116465 - 09/09/04 10:52 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Aren't you a little late to the discussion?
Did you see where I quoted what you would have said if you had been here???
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3116545 - 09/09/04 11:06 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I am not sure what your point for this thread is. You have set up a line in your own personal moral code as something that you would never cross, then cross it at a different point downstream.
All of sexuality (except rape) is an exchange; either for money, goods, security, or physical or emotional needs. Do you have a problem that is is in fact a business transaction (quid pro quo, baby!) or just the medium of exchange?
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Swami]
#3116621 - 09/09/04 11:19 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: I am not sure what your point for this thread is. You have set up a line in your own personal moral code as something that you would never cross, then cross it at a different point downstream.
I think I know of which points you are speaking, but I am not positive. Do you want to quote them for me so that we are on the same page?
Quote:
All of sexuality (except rape) is an exchange; either for money, goods, security, or physical or emotional needs. Do you have a problem that is is in fact a business transaction (quid pro quo, baby!) or just the medium of exchange?
I don't have a personal problem with someone else exchanging sex for something other than love. Even though I could not/would not exchange anything for sex except love, I have no problem with anyone else doing it.
For me, I only exchange sex for emotional needs. I have a need to be close to the one I love. But it's on a mutual level, I would hope.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3116650 - 09/09/04 11:24 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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You exchange sex for love?
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3116666 - 09/09/04 11:26 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do you want to quote them for me so that we are on the same page? No.
For me, I only exchange sex for ... needs. All of the mediums of exchange are about needs. How is one need morally superior to another?
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Viaggio]
#3116687 - 09/09/04 11:30 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
viaggio said: You exchange sex for love?
I guess I worded that badly, eh? I would engage in sex with the person I love. Is that better????
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3116696 - 09/09/04 11:32 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Too late! The pussy, er the cat, is out of the bag.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Swami]
#3116702 - 09/09/04 11:33 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: Do you want to quote them for me so that we are on the same page? No.
For me, I only exchange sex for ... needs. All of the mediums of exchange are about needs. How is one need morally superior to another?
I have met prostitutes. I have met drug addicts. I have met people from all walks of life. I treat no one differently from the way I would treat a ... priest.
But IMO, how cheap to use one's body to get material gain rather than to use one's mind. But hey, someone's got to do it, right? Someone's got to be a whore, right?
What I learned from some time ago...most women who are prostitutes were molested or raped as children.
So how many women, who are prostitutes, are doing it because it is their calling in life?
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3116716 - 09/09/04 11:36 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Pornstars?
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3116720 - 09/09/04 11:37 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I treat no one differently from the way I would treat a ... priest.
You had sex with a priest? (Hence the term: layman)
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Swami]
#3116761 - 09/09/04 11:45 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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No, haven't had sex with a priest. But neither have I had sex with a prostitute or a drug addict.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Swami]
#3117011 - 09/10/04 12:51 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:06 PM)
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#3117119 - 09/10/04 01:19 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Matt: "Making love is an action of becoming one with your lover, not an exchange.
How do you consider making love with the one that you love more than anything on this earth an exchange??? Maybe people who just go out and fuck to get off, there is an exchange, orgasm for orgasm.. ~shruggs~.. But if you are making love with the person whom you love, you are letting them become one with you. Not exchanging anything. Emotions are a big part of sex with a lover YES. But you do not exchange emotions. You feel emotion as ONE. IMO." I so totally agree. You are again putting into words that which I could not express, but could only feel.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Ekstaza
stranger than most
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3119277 - 09/10/04 03:46 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said:
No, we're not just animals.
Let's see, we are carbon based organisms that move about through the use of a musculatory system guided by a central nervous system. Sounds like an animal to me.
Quote:
Frog said:
Well, maybe YOU are, but I'm not.
You aren't human?
Quote:
Frog said: And I looked at the site on those bonobos. You would compare humans to monkeys that act out on sexual urges whenever one arises?
Yeah, we are not as socially evolved. They have found a way to solve problems without violence while promoting a loving atmosphere. Sexual repression had it's purpose during the ignorance of our past, but in todays educated and technologically advanced world we know that it's not the sex that's bad but the consequences of irresponsible sex. It's time to take the burka off of human sexuality.
-------------------- YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#3119327 - 09/10/04 04:07 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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How do you consider making love with the one that you love more than anything on this earth an exchange???
Hmmm, so if for some reason, making love caused you extreme agony instead of a sense of bliss or oneness that you would do it anyway? Me no thinkee so.
Why is it so all-fired wrong to realize that everything is paid for, all good things are exchanges of energy no matter the specific currency being traded?
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Ekstaza]
#3120003 - 09/10/04 07:38 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ekstaza said:
Quote:
Frog said:
No, we're not just animals.
Let's see, we are carbon based organisms that move about through the use of a musculatory system guided by a central nervous system. Sounds like an animal to me.
But! We have spirits and souls. That makes us different from animals, and puts us a step above.
Quote:
Quote:
Frog said: And I looked at the site on those bonobos. You would compare humans to monkeys that act out on sexual urges whenever one arises?
Quote:
Yeah, we are not as socially evolved. They have found a way to solve problems without violence while promoting a loving atmosphere. Sexual repression had it's purpose during the ignorance of our past, but in todays educated and technologically advanced world we know that it's not the sex that's bad but the consequences of irresponsible sex. It's time to take the burka off of human sexuality.
That would be a good point except for what God said: No sex outside of marriage.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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silversoul7
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3120010 - 09/10/04 07:40 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said:
Quote:
Ekstaza said:
Quote:
Frog said:
No, we're not just animals.
Let's see, we are carbon based organisms that move about through the use of a musculatory system guided by a central nervous system. Sounds like an animal to me.
But! We have spirits and souls. That makes us different from animals, and puts us a step above.
Two questions:
1. How can you be sure we have spirits and souls?
2. How can you be sure animals don't?
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: silversoul7]
#3120034 - 09/10/04 07:45 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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What a coincidence! I was just looking up this very issue on the 'net! "Question: Where does it say in the Bible that animals do not have souls? Answer: For the sake of MY ANSWER I will substitute the word ?spirits? for your word ?souls.? The reason for this is that some would say that the ?soul? is your emotions, and on that point I would agree that animals are soulish in that they have emotions. But they clearly do NOT have spirits. The Bible teaches this in the first chapter of Genesis, when God created man, the text specifically says that God ?breathed into him the spirit of life.? This was totally unique from all creatures that God had made prior to Adam. The angels were made prior to Adam, and they are spirits, but humans were the only spiritual creatures made on earth. Secondly, only humans relate to God, who is also spirit. There are NO examples of animals relating to God. They can?t because they don?t have spirits. Thirdly, there is no mention of animals being saved or facing judgment. They don?t have spirits and therefore are not moral creatures. They don?t do right and wrong. They have instincts and they learn from experience. They are not self aware or spiritually aware as humans are. Could it be that God will create animals that will live with us when He recreates the earth (heaven)? (Revelation 21) Sure, that is very possible, in fact, I would argue for it."
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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deafpanda
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3120040 - 09/10/04 07:48 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do you believe in evolution? I ask because I don't see how it would make sense if we evolved from animals but somehow gained a soul along the way...
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Posts: 27,301
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3120041 - 09/10/04 07:48 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ah, so you're going by a fictional text for your assertions. I see. Carry on, then.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: silversoul7]
#3120049 - 09/10/04 07:52 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't know, deafpanda, whether we evolved or not from animals. It wouls seem to make sense that we did, and that God didn't really form dust together to make the first man.
SS7, , I'm not going to say what I'd like to say, so I'll just keep smiling.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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KingOftheThing
the cool fool
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Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3120060 - 09/10/04 07:57 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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i think for enuff money you could corrupt anyone in the USA into taking it in the USA...maybe not mormons are muslims (any REALLY religous people) hell u could probably even get a few of them to take it too....anyone can be bought
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: KingOftheThing]
#3120115 - 09/10/04 08:14 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nope. I can't be bought.
About 25 years ago, I was offered money for sex, while I was a single mom of 2, poor, waiting tables. I turned it down.
A couple of times I was asked, by women, to work for their escort services. The money would be excellent as they ran their operations out of Newport Beach. Still poor, a student, single mom, and I turned it down.
Last year, someone offered me $1000 for a bj. I was pretty broke because I was still trying to get my practice going. I turned him down (the asshole).
Not everyone can be bought.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3120136 - 09/10/04 08:19 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not everyone can be bought.
For everyone else.. there's mastercard.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3120400 - 09/10/04 09:11 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Being "bought" is doing something for money that just goes against your moral fiber. Another might have no compunctions because their fiber runs a different way and the act may seem harmless. As for myself I have never condemned anyone for trying to survive, and many choose to be prostitutes for what they feel are sheer survival reasons.
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Swami]
#3120930 - 09/10/04 11:21 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:06 PM)
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Swami]
#3120955 - 09/10/04 11:26 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:06 PM)
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3121366 - 09/11/04 03:14 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: Being "bought" is doing something for money that just goes against your moral fiber. Another might have no compunctions because their fiber runs a different way and the act may seem harmless. As for myself I have never condemned anyone for trying to survive, and many choose to be prostitutes for what they feel are sheer survival reasons.
I would have to agree with you. Even though it goes against my moral fiber to sell my body for sex, I have no problem with someone else doing the same.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: deafpanda]
#3121784 - 09/11/04 09:52 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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A quartz crystal can be 'shaped' or refined to the point where its vibrations can be used to manifest order in terms of interval, that is time-measurement. The atomic vibration is present in a crude crystal, but it must be formed properly in order to manifest itself in the mechanism of a watch. Similarly, a human being is 'formed' to manifest psychic [soulful] and spiritual attributes. However, I'll continue this thought with Frog.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3121937 - 09/11/04 10:56 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dear Frog, When I first decided to block out all other data except the Biblical writings as sources of insight, I assumed not only the Androcentric attitude that you have, but the attendant arrogance of humans with regard to animal life. I too took that attitude about the loveless, spiritless nature of animals - justification for their oppression, inhumane agrifarming practices and methods of butchering. Then, gradually through reading, stories from others and personal experience, I learned differently. The Old Testament was not only Androcentric [Man-centered], it was Patriarchal [Male-centered] and Ethnocentric - about the Hebrews and nobody else. The adjustment and equilibrium established by Jesus was quickly eliminated by the new Church's assumption of Hebrew attitudes. I've seen a film of a rhinocerus come out of a clearing to a river bank where there lay a drowned, near-dead antelope of some kind. The rhino nudged the creature gently, opened its mouth over the face of the animal and began huffing on it. Damned if the animal didn't revive and get to its feet! The rhino left. A gorilla gently attends to a human child who has fallen into its zoo home until he can be recovered. Ever hear of wild bottlenose dolphins who have been saving drowning saliors since time immemorial? Legends of Mermaids and Mermen have connection here. Dolphins are amorous and make sexual advances to human swimmers. Dogs will sometimes pine away and die when their 'Master' has died, and a d-o-g, the reversal of G-o-d is anything but demonic. How many times have canines saved their 'Master's' lives, giving their own in the process? My dog Ben cried when I did. When I divorced, got cancer and had my mother die, all in a close time-frame, Ben was the only one there for me. He burrowed (a mini Dachshund) under the bedcovers every night and came up with his head on the other pillow. I'd say [as pathetic as it might sound today] "Give me a kiss goodnight," and he'd pick up his head and give a quick, neat lick on my cheek. That is why I had a granite headstone made for him when I buried him in my backyard after 14 years and three months of companionship. Ben evidenced intelligence at times that can only be described as 'primate-like' which I will not even go into now. Pretty impressive things for a creature with a golf-ball sized brain (AS IF this organ necessarily determines the transmission of Consciousness). I've rethought my position on this to the point that when I buried Ben by the light of a gas-mantle lamp on a dark January evening (it took work to get through coral reef unde thin Florida soil), I prayed to GOD that if there be a 'dog house' among His 'many mansions,' that it be a fine one! No, that's not mentioned in the Bible. Neither is Jesus' Bar Mitzvah mentioned, but one can be certain that He had one. Whether Jesus was married is not mentioned either, but unmarried men were never allowed to speak openly in the Temple, so one can make a fair assumption about THIS unmentioned probability as well. I am no longer a vegetarian, but I humbly thank the creature whose life was taken to feed me, and we buy only free-range chickens and beef as a slight concession to them. The immanence of GOD suffuses all of creation, animate or not. Do you think the visions of Ezekiel or John for that matter have no relevance to this by their inclusion of animal forms in theophanies of GOD? The blood sacrifices were and ARE (in the Muslim world) terrible! Why, because animals, Mammals are sentient! They KNOW, they Fear, they cry for mercy and struggle to be free. They also embody GOD. Just like sex, the creation of life, or the utilization of the life-sex spirit, death is it's dual correlate. I just told a possibly pregnant 90 pound girl yesterday that if she is prepared to give life, she has to be equally prepared to take it, with regard to the give birth or terminate the pregnancy choice. Did you know that both male and female Temple prostitutes were present in King Solomon's Temple? Do you recall how many wives and concubines Solomon had? The Bible holds the Wisdom of Solomon (not the book by that title) above all others until Jesus, and the legends about his command of demons in the building of the Temple abound (no metal tools were supposed to be used to cut the stone). Not only was the Chrub-covered Ark of the Covenant present, but huge Cherubim whose wing-spans (feathered bird-like, 'animal' wings like those on depictions of Isis or Assyrian sphinx) measured 30 feet long were in the Temple - Yahweh AND Asherah (Yahweh's 'Consort' or Wife - see Rafael Patai's The Hebrew Goddess ). These also have been buried in the post-Temple traditions of Judaism and in time. Today's one-sided regard for sexuality is an amputated form of the duality of Male-Female GOD, with Maleness oppressing Femininity, attributing sexuality to the Terrible Feminine (e.g., Lilith the demoness who steals the souls of newborns). Ever notice the English spelling of Solomon is easily made 'Sol-moon'? thereby depicting the most obvious duality in nature - the spheres that rule day and night, light and dark? I apologize for the tangent(s), sex and death, humans and animals, us and them, male and female, GOD-GODDESS but most of humanity seems to be 'blind in one eye.'
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/11/04 01:01 PM)
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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This was not directed at me, but since it is public I will comment. I agree completely and am once again stunned by your impressive command of the language. That was beautiful.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3122292 - 09/11/04 12:39 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Selling sex for money isn't wrong. What's wrong is a society that makes that the only viable option from some women. A society that commodifies and objectifies women, and makes it impossible to live without selling ones body, mind, spirit in some way or another is wrong, whether whats being sold is sex or anything else.
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Wow, Markos... very good. Sometimes the only reason I click on any thread here in S&P is to read your posts... Beautiful indeed.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Anonymous
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#3122331 - 09/11/04 12:51 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Making love is what my girlfriend does while I'm fucking her."
- ancient Chinese proverb, err tshirt slogan
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Thanks. I'm probably just a frustrated wrier who doesn't want to try again to get published. Glad that some people enjoy my writing style.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3122352 - 09/11/04 12:57 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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D'Oh! I have difficulty taking compliments because I'm on guard against feelings of self-satisfaction or pride sneaking in to corrupt a humble "thank you." But thank you nevertheless.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Ekstaza
stranger than most
Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 4,324
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 11 months, 11 days
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123027 - 09/11/04 05:05 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said: But! We have spirits and souls. That makes us different from animals, and puts us a step above.
And here we have a problem because I don't believe in the existance of the human soul or spirit as anything more than ones own self awareness and the need to feel separate from the physical body that is mortal. Therefore, people make up the idea that there must be a soul in order for their immortallity to be affirmed. In short, we all want to live forever.
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Frog said: That would be a good point except for what God said: No sex outside of marriage.
Since I believe that it is impossible to prove that something absolutely doesn't exist, because that would mean that all things are known, you need to prove to me that there is a god. Otherwise, it's not what god said, it's just what some man from antiquity wrote down and called god's word.
-------------------- YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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First, I am with the others in complimenting you on your thoughts. Beautifully written, and very persuasive. But I also have some comments.
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MarkostheGnostic said: When I first decided to block out all other data except the Biblical writings as sources of insight, I assumed not only the Androcentric attitude that you have, but the attendant arrogance of humans with regard to animal life. I too took that attitude about the loveless, spiritless nature of animals - justification for their oppression, inhumane agrifarming practices and methods of butchering.
"Androcentric: Centered or focused on men, often to the neglect or exclusion of women: an androcentric view of history; an androcentric health-care system." How am I androcentric? I don't think animals are love-less. I just think that they lack spirits. But you could be right. That's why I said you were persuasive. I've not thought about it like that. And I don't think it's a form of arrogance. I love animals. We used to have a cow and a bull that we raised when I was young. We had to keep them way far away from the house so that we didn't make friends with them, because how then could we kill them? I am just looking at things for the way they are, and yes, I think that humans are superior to animals. If that's arrogant, so be it. Just a fact, imo. Assuming that you are right, that animals have a soul or spirit, I still think that humans are superior to animals. And now I will have to do some reading on this. You have caused me to think you might be right, but I am not completely persuaded. I wish MM was still here.
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Then, gradually through reading, stories from others and personal experience, I learned differently. The Old Testament was not only Androcentric [Man-centered], it was Patriarchal [Male-centered] and Ethnocentric - about the Hebrews and nobody else. The adjustment and equilibrium established by Jesus was quickly eliminated by the new Church's assumption of Hebrew attitudes.
You are correct, but as to the bible being about the Hebrews and nobody else, I don't think that is completely accurate. Yes, the society at the time, maybe, but this is what Jesus came to change. He came not only to redeem people, but to also bring the Gentiles into the loop.
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I've seen a film of a rhinocerus come out of a clearing to a river bank where there lay a drowned, near-dead antelope of some kind. The rhino nudged the creature gently, opened its mouth over the face of the animal and began huffing on it. Damned if the animal didn't revive and get to its feet! The rhino left. A gorilla gently attends to a human child who has fallen into its zoo home until he can be recovered. Ever hear of wild bottlenose dolphins who have been saving drowning saliors since time immemorial? Legends of Mermaids and Mermen have connection here. Dolphins are amorous and make sexual advances to human swimmers. Dogs will sometimes pine away and die when their 'Master' has died, and a d-o-g, the reversal of G-o-d is anything but demonic. How many times have canines saved their 'Master's' lives, giving their own in the process? My dog Ben cried when I did. When I divorced, got cancer and had my mother die, all in a close time-frame, Ben was the only one there for me. He burrowed (a mini Dachshund) under the bedcovers every night and came up with his head on the other pillow. I'd say [as pathetic as it might sound today] "Give me a kiss goodnight," and he'd pick up his head and give a quick, neat lick on my cheek. That is why I had a granite headstone made for him when I buried him in my backyard after 14 years and three months of companionship. Ben evidenced intelligence at times that can only be described as 'primate-like' which I will not even go into now. Pretty impressive things for a creature with a golf-ball sized brain (AS IF this organ necessarily determines the transmission of Consciousness). I've rethought my position on this to the point that when I buried Ben by the light of a gas-mantle lamp on a dark January evening (it took work to get through coral reef unde thin Florida soil), I prayed to GOD that if there be a 'dog house' among His 'many mansions,' that it be a fine one! No, that's not mentioned in the Bible.
All of the above was probably the best of all that you wrote.
Quote:
Neither is Jesus' Bar Mitzvah mentioned, but one can be certain that He had one. Whether Jesus was married is not mentioned either, but unmarried men were never allowed to speak openly in the Temple, so one can make a fair assumption about THIS unmentioned probability as well.
Good points, and again, I'm going to have to do more research on this, as to animal souls.
Quote:
I am no longer a vegetarian, but I humbly thank the creature whose life was taken to feed me, and we buy only free-range chickens and beef as a slight concession to them. The immanence of GOD suffuses all of creation, animate or not. Do you think the visions of Ezekiel or John for that matter have no relevance to this by their inclusion of animal forms in theophanies of GOD? The blood sacrifices were and ARE (in the Muslim world) terrible! Why, because animals, Mammals are sentient! They KNOW, they Fear, they cry for mercy and struggle to be free. They also embody GOD.
Well, the bible, which I realize was written by man, states in Genesis that God made animals and the world and infused it with light, etc. Then, God made man in His image. Therefore, God did not make animals in His image, or it would have said, "God made man and animals in His image." And I don't think God has a physical form like we do, so when the bible says we were made in His image, I believe the image referred to is the spirit.
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Just like sex, the creation of life, or the utilization of the life-sex spirit, death is it's dual correlate. I just told a possibly pregnant 90 pound girl yesterday that if she is prepared to give life, she has to be equally prepared to take it, with regard to the give birth or terminate the pregnancy choice.
Why does one who is able to give life have to be prepared to take it?
Quote:
Did you know that both male and female Temple prostitutes were present in King Solomon's Temple? Do you recall how many wives and concubines Solomon had? The Bible holds the Wisdom of Solomon (not the book by that title) above all others until Jesus, and the legends about his command of demons in the building of the Temple abound (no metal tools were supposed to be used to cut the stone). Not only was the Chrub-covered Ark of the Covenant present, but huge Cherubim whose wing-spans (feathered bird-like, 'animal' wings like those on depictions of Isis or Assyrian sphinx) measured 30 feet long were in the Temple - Yahweh AND Asherah (Yahweh's 'Consort' or Wife - see Rafael Patai's The Hebrew Goddess ). These also have been buried in the post-Temple traditions of Judaism and in time. Today's one-sided regard for sexuality is an amputated form of the duality of Male-Female GOD, with Maleness oppressing Femininity, attributing sexuality to the Terrible Feminine (e.g., Lilith the demoness who steals the souls of newborns). Ever notice the English spelling of Solomon is easily made 'Sol-moon'? thereby depicting the most obvious duality in nature - the spheres that rule day and night, light and dark?
Jesus told Mary Magdalen, the prostitute, to turn away from her life style.
Quote:
I apologize for the tangent(s), sex and death, humans and animals, us and them, male and female, GOD-GODDESS but most of humanity seems to be 'blind in one eye.'
I don't think you should apologize when you share something so beautiful with all of us, even if I disagree with some of it. Thank you.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: NiamhNyx]
#3123111 - 09/11/04 05:38 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said: Selling sex for money isn't wrong. What's wrong is a society that makes that the only viable option from some women. A society that commodifies and objectifies women, and makes it impossible to live without selling ones body, mind, spirit in some way or another is wrong, whether whats being sold is sex or anything else.
In what society does this exist, currently? I am assuming that when you say "whether whats being sold is sex or anything else" that you are really referring just to sex, right? Or what does "anything else" include?
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Ekstaza]
#3123135 - 09/11/04 05:46 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ekstaza said:
Quote:
Frog said: But! We have spirits and souls. That makes us different from animals, and puts us a step above.
And here we have a problem because I don't believe in the existance of the human soul or spirit as anything more than ones own self awareness and the need to feel separate from the physical body that is mortal. Therefore, people make up the idea that there must be a soul in order for their immortallity to be affirmed. In short, we all want to live forever.
It's true, though, for me. I am going to live forever, even though this physical body will perish.
Quote:
Since I believe that it is impossible to prove that something absolutely doesn't exist, because that would mean that all things are known, you need to prove to me that there is a god. Otherwise, it's not what god said, it's just what some man from antiquity wrote down and called god's word.
I can't prove that God exists. One of the things about being a Christian is accepting on faith that God exists. That's what gets us into heaven is believing, based on faith alone, even though we have no actual proof.
Therefore, I imagine that this discussion, as between you and I, is over.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123164 - 09/11/04 05:58 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said: It's true, though, for me. I am going to live forever, even though this physical body will perish.
That sure would be nice, wouldn't it? Too bad you don't know that for certain.
Quote:
I can't prove that God exists. One of the things about being a Christian is accepting on faith that God exists. That's what gets us into heaven is believing, based on faith alone, even though we have no actual proof.
Seems to me that for most people that's more about self-assurance and wishful thinking than it is about getting into heaven. It must feel nice to think you have this life figured out.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123216 - 09/11/04 06:14 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Any woman who turns down cash for sex when offered and don't take it is only being stupid. Just don't tell anyone silly. Every woman I have dated expects me to buy and pay for all kinds of shit even if she has no plans on being my wife. Women in all points in history treat men like this. And if any women say diff than she is a liar. So you should take the cash and give up the asshole. Be honest to yourself and take what you want. You want it. Women take trades all the time for sex. How many of you have dated a guy just because of what he has????? HUm.... Yep and at some point there is a mercey fuck or two right??? SAME AS SELLING YOUR ASSHOLE. ALL PEOPLE MEN AND WOMEN sell thier bodies. GET REAL!!! Sell that ass girl, take them for a ride. Try and make a squeeze play. Make them play from your hands. Make them boys pay out the ass...er.. your ass. Ever seen the movie, EVITA??? Samething
-------------------- What it is, is what it is my Brother. It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123242 - 09/11/04 06:23 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"I still think that humans are superior to animals."
We are only animals ourselves. The Christian view of animals is sinful. They are just like us and they are no less inferior. We just happened to end up smarter. Even when the Bible tells us this the Christians choose to ignore it. When Eve ate the fruit she realized that she was naked and had knowledge. It was at this juncture that mankind became separate from the creation in Christian mythology. THAT is considered to be the original sin.
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: silversoul7]
#3123424 - 09/11/04 07:16 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
silversoul7 said: That sure would be nice, wouldn't it? Too bad you don't know that for certain.
No, I don't know for certain. *shrugs*
Quote:
Seems to me that for most people that's more about self-assurance and wishful thinking than it is about getting into heaven. It must feel nice to think you have this life figured out.
It's not wishful thinking, for me. I just choose to believe this way. No one else has to believe this, and again, yes, I could be wrong.
And I don't think I have this life figured out. There are things I have figured out, and I'm comfortable with most of what I believe, but also my mind is open to others' beliefs, even if I ultimately disagree. I accept that others aren't going to believe what I believe. No big deal to me.
What's wrong with thinking one has figured things out? At least I am providing you with the opportunity to look smugly at me, confident in your knowledge that I'm wrong.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3123435 - 09/11/04 07:19 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fucknuckle said: Any woman who turns down cash for sex when offered and don't take it is only being stupid. Just don't tell anyone silly.
Every woman I have dated expects me to buy and pay for all kinds of shit even if she has no plans on being my wife. Women in all points in history treat men like this. And if any women say diff than she is a liar. So you should take the cash and give up the asshole.
Be honest to yourself and take what you want. You want it.
Women take trades all the time for sex. How many of you have dated a guy just because of what he has????? HUm.... Yep and at some point there is a mercey fuck or two right??? SAME AS SELLING YOUR ASSHOLE.
ALL PEOPLE MEN AND WOMEN sell thier bodies. GET REAL!!! Sell that ass girl, take them for a ride. Try and make a squeeze play. Make them play from your hands. Make them boys pay out the ass...er.. your ass.
Ever seen the movie, EVITA??? Samething
LOL!!! You're terrible!!!
I know what women are like. That's why I advertise "Attorney for Men." I don't want to work for women in divorce actions because I don't like the way most of them operate. Very few of them are honest or fair.
Wasn't Evita in love with that guy that she married???
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3123444 - 09/11/04 07:20 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: The Christian view of animals is sinful.
What is the Christian view of animals?
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123469 - 09/11/04 07:25 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Frog, just because a being has a less complex form of cognition, does not mean that it just MUST be spiritless.
Answer me this, Frog what do you think is the purpose of us having a spirit? To operate and control our physical vessels in which we have incarnated into(?) -- I'm assuming you believe that we came here into this plane of existence to learn and evolve, from Heaven, or scientifically, the 3rd (or higher) dimension.
So, my real question is.. if you think that animals, such as our pets for example, have no spirits or souls to begin with, then am I to assume that you believe there are NO animals in Heaven/Next Dimension? Just us humans? No dogs, no cats, no apes, no eagles, no hippos, no girraffes, no wolves, no plants, nothing AT ALL.. that experiences Being on this plane of existence and is subject to life and death, except us humans?
Hmmm?
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Well, Skorpivo, I have often wondered if our pets will be in heaven. When a family pet has died, I have told my kids that we will see it in Heaven, but I never knew for sure if that's really true.
I had a talk with someone else about this, and he said that animals may have a spirit and soul, that they feel emotions. That they don't just feel emotions that are motivated by survival, such as fear, but that they form attachments, they show love, they show some kind of embarrassment when scolded, etc.
So maybe y'all are right, and I'm wrong.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123563 - 09/11/04 07:47 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said: What's wrong with thinking one has figured things out? At least I am providing you with the opportunity to look smugly at me, confident in your knowledge that I'm wrong.
It's not that I think you're wrong(that would imply that I knew the truth and you didn't, which would make me just as bad as any bible-thumper). It's that I think you're too willing to believe things because you want them to be true. Personally, I hope there is a God, and I hope there is an afterlife, and I think both of those are certainly possible, but I'm able to recognize that reality is not necessarily what I want it to be. What's wrong with thinking you have things figured out is that at that point, you stop asking questions.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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TheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123593 - 09/11/04 07:54 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's funny about hevan, you have to think you are special if you believe in hevan.
What would make god like humans better than any other living thing on Earth?
"Sorry all other beautiful crations, you don't get in, no soul, yoo know?"
Also, what good is hevan if it isn't perfect for you, if your beloved pet isn't there that would be dissapointing.
The idea of hevan is so obsecure and objective you can't even have a conversation about it unless both people agree completly.
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: silversoul7]
#3123599 - 09/11/04 07:56 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've said in the past that I know I could be wrong. But I'm still choosing to believe. *shrugs again* And as I've said in the past, if it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal, right?
But I am always asking questions, and because of the questions I have asked, and things I have learned, I've had to change my mind about things (like currently, about animals having spirits). But only if I've received good answers.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123616 - 09/11/04 08:00 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you acknowledge the possibility that you could be wrong, then that's all I'm looking for. The only reason I was arguing with you was that you said with such confidence that you're going to live forever, and that there is a God. Such statements always bait me into bursting people's bubbles.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123801 - 09/11/04 08:58 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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That humans are superior. No form of life is more superior to another. The smallest blade of grass has equal importance to a human in the univrse. We all have a purpose. Every purpose is equal in importance.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: silversoul7]
#3124211 - 09/11/04 10:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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silversoul7 said: If you acknowledge the possibility that you could be wrong, then that's all I'm looking for. The only reason I was arguing with you was that you said with such confidence that you're going to live forever, and that there is a God. Such statements always bait me into bursting people's bubbles.
Oh, well, I'm always making statements as if I'm right, and then I wait for someone to burst my bubble.
If you read the first page or so of this thread, I said that I wasn't sure of my position on the sex for pay thing, but that I would argue my position as if I was sure, and see what happened (or something like that).
That's probably why I don't have too much pride in hanging onto my position, such as my position on whether animals have spirits. Turns out I'm wrong, and that's fine.
But so far, I'm still maintaining my position that sex for money is wrong, although someone could still come along and give me a better counter-argument than that which I have received so far and change my mind.
This place is so much fun!!! *slaps self upside the head*
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: TheHateCamel]
#3124237 - 09/11/04 11:04 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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TheHateCamel said: It's funny about hevan, you have to think you are special if you believe in hevan.
We are all special, HateCamel, whether we believe in Heaven or not.
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What would make god like humans better than any other living thing on Earth?
"Sorry all other beautiful crations, you don't get in, no soul, yoo know?"
Also, what good is hevan if it isn't perfect for you, if your beloved pet isn't there that would be dissapointing.
I agree, now. And keep in mind, though, that I never said that pets "shouldn't go to heaven". I said they had no spirit, or whaver. I have always hoped we would see our pets in heaven. I just didn't know how they would get there.
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The idea of hevan is so obsecure and objective you can't even have a conversation about it unless both people agree completly.
I know. When I was younger, I had this (literal) idea that heaven really was a place up in the clouds. Now I realize that heaven is not there. Heaven may not really even be a place. Maybe it's a different dimension. And maybe everything that is written in the bible is wrong.
We'll all find out one way or the other, eventually, right?
See you when we're dead!!!
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Strumpling
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3124294 - 09/11/04 11:16 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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sex for money is wrong because it is illegal.
why did they make it illegal? I have no idea..
As for the big question, I would probably let that happen to me for $100 million
-------------------- Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me. In addition: SHPONGLE
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3124295 - 09/11/04 11:16 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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That is quite ridiculous. The universe is not 'homogenous' in its densities, energies, complexities, etc. Your statements are pantheistic, yet not formerly so. All the grass blades in a huge expanse of land might contribute to the oxygen production, food for grazing animals, home for millions of insects and trillions of microbes and still not approximate the importance of one Mahatma Gandhi in terms of the concentration of consciousness at that human 'node' in the fabric of space-time. All 'things' and creatures are not equal. Why, even the Bible takes up this theme stating that a human is worth more than "many sparrows." Absolute values as those lying behind your assumptions, manifest 'unequally' among the various types of existence in the universe. There is a Great Chain of Being after all, rising upward from the simplest particles to the atomic, molecular, cellular, organismic developments, and thence (perhaps) to spiritual beings.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Frog
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Markos, I was hoping someone would have an answer for the "blade of grass" thing. What you wrote makes sense, especially your statement "a human is worth more than many sparrows."
So if I now acknowledge that animals have spirits and go to heaven, too (assuming heaven exists), how do animals fit in with what you said?
Luke 12:7 - "Fear not; you are of more value than many sparrows."
Luke 12:24 - "Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds!"
This would sort of imply to me that we are more important, at least to God, if He exists, than animals are. But I still agree that animals probably have spirits, and will be in heaven, where ever that is, with us.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Huehuecoyotl
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I don't think so. We are all cogs in the wheels of a very large machine. This machine needs all of it's parts to function properly. If you think that in the scheme of the universe you are more important than any other part you are mistaken. This is a supreme expression of self importance. I personally believe that all living things have a "degree" of conciousness (according to it's need) and a spiritual essence. I do not think that man was created special by some all seeing God. This is a fundamental view that is also embraced by most shamanic cultures. We are merely the most evolved animal on our planet, a luck of the draw that leaves us with the responsibility of it's stewardship. ALL life should be treated with supreme reverence no matter how small. The taking of it should be undertaken only after much consideration has been undertaken. To waste a sacred resource such as life is what I veiw as a sin. This does not mean I would just as soon shoot you with my shotgun as cut my grass with my lawnmower. As I said our position leaves us as our planet's stewards, but not as it's owners. If this seems "simple" or "primitive" then I appreciate the complement. As far as The Bible goes...there is wisdom in it as in all mythologies, BUT IT IS myth.
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plexus
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3124469 - 09/11/04 11:58 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"if fucking is legal, and selling is legal, then selling fucking should be legal" -george carlin
-------------------- that there, thats not me. i go where i please. im not here. this isnt happening.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3124505 - 09/12/04 12:10 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just so you know (working backwards) by the late 60's, the Catholic Church retracted the LIE that the woman "who loved much" was a prostitute. Mary Magdalene was NOT a prostitute. Pope Gregory started that lie by his own interpretation, and it has effected women up to present times - the Magdalane laundresses for example. Atrocities and sexual persecution. The seven devils were never clarified. May well have been a case of Dissociative Disorder (formerly, Multiple Personality Disorder). Mary may well have been the 'consort' of Jesus of Nazareth, sexually or not, perhaps an 'unorthodox' [literally] marriage. She seems to have been painted by DaVinci in place of "the beloved disciple" John, because DaVinci knew that the Church had re-written history and replaced Mary with Peter. Later surfacing of writings (i.e., The Gospel of Mary Magdalene ) which we've had for 150 years) would supply further evidence of the importance of this #1 female disciple in the original Christian story (not the one told by misogynistic, probably homosexual, so-called Church Fathers).
St. Thomas Aquinas speculated that the human soul included but transcended the sum total of animal souls. It is interesting how the Bhagavad Gita illustrates how humans can act like 'pigs,' or like [horny] 'dogs' or other sub-human species, and find themselves manifesting in animal bodies after death. I swear that I know people who are new to human bodies - they manifest hints of animality in their appearance and behaviors.
I am cognitively superior and have superior manual dexterity which enables me to build devices, do art, make medicines, etc. But...a bloodhound can smell a scent miles away (so can a shark); an eagle can see a field mouse from a mile up; a mountain gorilla could snap any bone in my body with little effort, if they weren't gentle for the most part. Most species do not kill their own kind, and never kill for sheer sadism or for ideology or for sport. I have met very cognitively limited but very kind Down's Syndrome humans. A kind heart is more important to me than a brilliant mind. The light of Intelligence without Compassion is simply Lucifer. Lots of creatures have faculties that are 'superior' to mine whether height, strength, acceptance of fate, grace in dying, loyalty, parenting, non-aggression (though much bigger and stronger than any human). I am not merely my intellect, and I am not completely identified with the power of intellection. Intellect does not even assure a happy human life, and in my experience, actually works against positive social processes. I mean, I don't want friendships that are soley based on the discussion of the philosophy of Hegel (though that would be cool for me), but I have never cared one wit for who won what ballgame. Adolescence was no picnic I'll tell you.
Yeah, yeah, Gentiles have been 'grafted in' to the Jewish 'roots' - but Gentile 'Christians' have been blaming Jews for every ill of mankind including the execution of Jesus since their big inclusion. It's been a 'gentilized,' blue-eyed, blond-haired Jee-zus, not a brown-eyed, dark-haired, Hittite-nosed Heeb named Y'shua ben Miriam that people have imagined, who spoke Aramaic, prayed in Hebrew, kept Kosher, got Bar Mitzvahed, drank wine (not thimbles of Welch's grape juice, 'cause Jews don't tend to become alcoholics) and kept the Jewish holidays that Gentile Christians know zilch about and who don't even realize that the Gospels are all about liturgical writings for the Jewish holiday calendar. Sorry, but life as a Jewish Christian hasn't been a picnic either - especially of late when even more veils of deceit have been lifted from my spiritual eyes. I have a Biblically Hebrew last name. People ask, "Hey, I thought you were Jewish, how come you wear a cross?" I tell them: "I want to become the kind of Jew that Jesus was." They are silenced - especially Jews. People don't know what to think or say. I'm just trying to be honest and give a simple answer. I want nothing to do with modern day Christianity and its concrete and misunderstood use of so-called Scriptures. St. Paul was not writing Scriptures, he was writing letters. The Torah and the Haftarah (Prophets) were his Scriptures. I've said too much already.
Peace.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Frog
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Just so you know (working backwards) by the late 60's, the Catholic Church retracted the LIE that the woman "who loved much" was a prostitute. Mary Magdalene was NOT a prostitute. Pope Gregory started that lie by his own interpretation, and it has effected women up to present times - the Magdalane laundresses for example. Atrocities and sexual persecution. The seven devils were never clarified. May well have been a case of Dissociative Disorder (formerly, Multiple Personality Disorder). Mary may well have been the 'consort' of Jesus of Nazareth, sexually or not, perhaps an 'unorthodox' [literally] marriage. She seems to have been painted by DaVinci in place of "the beloved disciple" John, because DaVinci knew that the Church had re-written history and replaced Mary with Peter. Later surfacing of writings (i.e., The Gospel of Mary Magdalene ) which we've had for 150 years) would supply further evidence of the importance of this #1 female disciple in the original Christian story (not the one told by misogynistic, probably homosexual, so-called Church Fathers).
Markos, from where do you get this information? I'd like to read it myself. I pretty much almost have not doubt that I will come to the same conclusion, and I will then of course be forced to readjust my thinking on things, but it would be nice to read the material first-hand.
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I have met very cognitively limited but very kind Down's Syndrome humans. A kind heart is more important to me than a brilliant mind. The light of Intelligence without Compassion is simply Lucifer. Lots of creatures have faculties that are 'superior' to mine whether height, strength, acceptance of fate, grace in dying, loyalty, parenting, non-aggression (though much bigger and stronger than any human). I am not merely my intellect, and I am not completely identified with the power of intellection. Intellect does not even assure a happy human life, and in my experience, actually works against positive social processes. I mean, I don't want friendships that are soley based on the discussion of the philosophy of Hegel (though that would be cool for me), but I have never cared one wit for who won what ballgame. Adolescence was no picnic I'll tell you.
I agree with you on everything written above.
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Yeah, yeah, Gentiles have been 'grafted in' to the Jewish 'roots' - but Gentile 'Christians' have been blaming Jews for every ill of mankind including the execution of Jesus since their big inclusion.
Yes, the bad Christians have been doing this for ulterior motives.
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It's been a 'gentilized,' blue-eyed, blond-haired Jee-zus, not a brown-eyed, dark-haired, Hittite-nosed Heeb named Y'shua ben Miriam that people have imagined, who spoke Aramaic, prayed in Hebrew, kept Kosher, got Bar Mitzvahed, drank wine (not thimbles of Welch's grape juice, 'cause Jews don't tend to become alcoholics) and kept the Jewish holidays that Gentile Christians know zilch about and who don't even realize that the Gospels are all about liturgical writings for the Jewish holiday calendar. Sorry, but life as a Jewish Christian hasn't been a picnic either - especially of late when even more veils of deceit have been lifted from my spiritual eyes. I have a Biblically Hebrew last name. People ask, "Hey, I thought you were Jewish, how come you wear a cross?" I tell them: "I want to become the kind of Jew that Jesus was." They are silenced - especially Jews. People don't know what to think or say. I'm just trying to be honest and give a simple answer. I want nothing to do with modern day Christianity and its concrete and misunderstood use of so-called Scriptures. St. Paul was not writing Scriptures, he was writing letters. The Torah and the Haftarah (Prophets) were his Scriptures. I've said too much already.
Peace.
Thank you, Markos, for sharing so much about yourself. As always, it's nice to read "you" behind your posts. I agree with most of what you wrote, except that it's been the "bad" Christians who have inflicted much of the pain on the Jews. And it's been just plain wrong.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3125366 - 09/12/04 08:08 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I believe in GOD, not the philosophical musings of mankind, nor the non-linguistic methodologies of so-called Shamanism - a Russian-derived word for a whole host of 'primitive' techniques for the alteration of consciousness. By this point in history, many shamanic traditions have well merged with primarily Catholic components. The Carlos Casteneda books, all of which I read as they were published, was ostensibly about an ancient Toltec tradition in which 'God' was conceived of as an 'Eagle' which consumed (if one were 'worthy') our 'spiritual sparks.' Kind of like the Gnostic or Kabbalistic 'sparks,' and no wonder - Casteneda was a total fraud! He 'borrowed' freely from everyone. The shamanic Bon religion was absorbed into Tibetan Buddhism, which doesn't directly acknowledge the Creator, but knows good and well that Buddhism came from Hinduism which does recognize Brahman and Vishnu. Voudun is very shamanic and well merged with Catholic stuff. Native American traditions (e.g., Wovoka, the Ghost Dance) still retain The Great Spirit - GOD - above all. I'm no expert on Shamanism, but if you haven't read it, the classic text is Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy by Mircea Eliade.
It is pure logic that Creation was Created by a Creator. Now, you might reject the childhood Old-Bearded-Guy-in-the-Sky notion, but 'intelligent design' speaks obviously of the Intelligent Designer. How the two are connected, by Creation or Emanation (two theological notions)' pantheistic or panENtheistic, Transcendence and Immanence - these are theologically sophisticated ideas.
The value or status of Scriptures, regardless of whose, is subjective. That scriptures embody four levels of interpretation: Literal, Allegorical, Symbolic and Mystical is also important to keep foremost in mind, because a good amount of 'spiritual discernment' is required to Know which level speaks most loudly in each word or verse. Biblical myth belongs to the symbolic level, as do all myths which are universal truths set in colorful stories - never intended to be taken as historical fact. Only the simple-minded who are concrete thinkers, literalists, fundamentalists take all verses to be Literal. Clearly, not everyone has the same degree of discernment, nor the same degree of reading comprehension for that matter. "I am the vine, you are the branches." Gee, call me a stick.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3125407 - 09/12/04 08:34 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I thoroughly believe that I have been 'caught up to' a Heaven. I will not attempt to elaborate other than to say that it WAS Light, it WAS Awareness of Light and Infinite Compassion, but 'I' was not present to it. That is to say, Markos was not present to it. There was no self-reflection like "Wow! I'm in Heaven!" There was total absence of personal, linguistic, memory, image or form of 'my self' at all. There was only Unbearable Compassion which was Ecstatic and (as the Hindus say) Self-Effulgent, Radiant. When the Experience subsided, the Infinite and Eternal Ocean of Compassion 'contracted' in the twinkling of an eye to a 'point' of intense Compassionate-feeling which now had become finite and localized in my Heart Center. This is why even as a Jewish Christian, I wear a ring and a bracelet with the Great Mantra of Vajrayana [Diamond Vehicle]: OM MANI PADMA HUM - The Absolute [GOD] is a Jewel [Compassion] in the Lotus [Blossoming] of my Heart.
Whatever Heaven this was, and it WAS one, did not admit of any 'limiting' form, although I dare say that there was Light AND color, but no personal identity, no embodiedness whatsoever. The result of the State impressed upon me the metaphysical translation of what ordinarily seems like a mere social order - to love one another. The commandment to love one another is not so that a world full of loving people form a loving community on Earth - a veritable Heaven-on-Earth. NO. The commandment to love one another, and to love GOD, it occurred to me, is because ONLY our love 'gets into' Heaven. Only love is compatible with Heaven because, as I Experienced, "GOD is love." Only to the extent that we become transformed into Love itself, do we Experience Heaven. Everything else is annihilated. Only ourselves as Love becomes One with GOD. Only the Compassion-Love in us IS GOD - not the rest. The rest dies. How could it be otherwise? Have you ever had a song-jingle drive you crazy for a day? Imagine 90 human years of life-memories being repeated in an Eternal State! HELL!
Just my .02 Cents. -MtG
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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SkorpivoMusterion
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I believe that HueHue may be symbologically and internally misinterpreting his somewhat-panthiestic pontification.. I believe a more accurate statement of what he may be trying to get across is that the God-force, or Being inherently loves the human with a sacred and unfathomable intensity and radiance, and yet, loves the blade of grass no less, nor any creature.. for all things that are inherently of the very essence of Being, that is, the One-life that is within all beings subject to life and death, are all part of Being, or God-force [The pantheistic energy].
But then again, y'never know with HueHue.. he's a little schizo.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Frog
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What you experienced as "heaven" and God's love sounds good enough for me.
Thank you, Markos.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Strumpling
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3125781 - 09/12/04 11:35 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"We're not animals, so therefore God must exist." This is a very arrogant statement in my opinion. To think that we are not animals is what is making our race so fucked up to begin with. In my opinion people need to stop thinking that mankind is so much more "special" than the other animals on this planet. We've just lucked out with somebody inventing "the tool" and advancing language so much. We may be more "advanced" creatures but we're still animals IMO. Animals with money. When I look in the eyes of any animal, I see just as much life and energy and "spirit" than when I look into a person's eyes. Thinking we are not animals allows us to remove their homes and wipe out entire speciaes because "hey they're JUST animals..... ha stupid animals!!" We're the stupid animals at this point. sorry to go off-topic with that....
-------------------- Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me. In addition: SHPONGLE
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Strumpling
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Strumpling]
#3125791 - 09/12/04 11:38 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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the question is, should it be legal for me to charge people for having sex with my pet pig?
-------------------- Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me. In addition: SHPONGLE
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Strumpling]
#3125806 - 09/12/04 11:43 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, well, don't worry. I've been set straight.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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MarkostheGnostic
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OK, but what I'm saying is that despite the idea that we and the blade of grass both partake of existence, both exist in the fabric of space-time, GOD, the Ground of Being, manifests far far moreso in sentient human beings than [S]He does in grass blades. The human tendency to anthropomorphize GOD must also be seen in reverse - that humans are created in "the image and likeness of GOD," which is to distill out the non-material aspects of human beinghood that are a reflection of GOD's Being. This is true for us even if Compassion is the only True 'spark' of the Divine that we have in our being (as opposed to all those Old Testament attributes like jealousy, anger, etc.). This is also not to say that we are necessarily the 'crown of creation.' An Enlightened human may well be on this world, or in this human realm. I suspect that there are other realms, such as those mapped on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life - a celestial hierarchy of beings perhaps.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Huehuecoyotl
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I cannot believe that after recommending Eliade's book on this forum at least 10 times someone is suggesting I read it. Well, I did, 4 time through because it was rather dry and took much study to digest. It is a look at classic siberian shamanism. I have also indicated that Castaneda was fiction to at least 10 people on this forum and now you are assuming I just read a Castaneda book and thought I was a shaman of some sort. Come on, that is ridiculous. I am very familiar with all of the classic writings and have had an opportunity to converse with a Native American shaman on several occasions. These fine texts and my interactions with others are only pointing a direction. Shamanism is about forming your own very personal ideas about spiritualism through direct interaction with the spirit, and using this knowledge to heal the self and others. This process is not dependant on the opinions and dogma of others as it is personal and very subjective. My ideas about spiritualism were not ripped off from Castaneda, or Eliade for that matter, or even from the Christian Bible or the Koran. They are the result of my direct interaction with the spirit. My ideas don't have to conform to your preconcieved notions about shamanism because they are my own. I do adopt practical ideas from various sources such as Eliade or The Tao Te Ching. I have even found that Castaneda's books contain some practical ideas as well as he was quite familiar with the subject, though, it was fiction. These are only markers, though, if you know anything about Shamanism you know that it is about DIRECT interation with the spirit world. You guys can sit in Church and let someone TELL you about the spirit world as much as you want, but I can only believe in that which I have had direct contact with. A lot of fancy words (and you are a good writer with a vocabulary exeeding mine)are not needed to describe it. The truth is very simple. As far as I am concerned the criticism of those who ascribe to organized religions is a complement because all these religions ever did for me was cause me to form bogus illusions about the world around me. For the record...I have NEVER claimed to be a shaman...I am just interested...deeply. If you think that Man's inherant superiority over the creation is present in shamanistic belief you are quite mistaken. All shamanic cultures veiw our fellow creatures on this planet as brothers and sisters while still acknowledging that the cycle is dependant on some animals becoming food for others. Man is NOT exempt from this because we are superior. Try telling a 1200 Lb Grizzly Bear that he can't eat you because he is inferior. Man is part of the creation NOT above it. It is a fact to me because I have seen it, felt it, and experienced it to the core of my being. Get your head out of your books and get experience with your God. Note: Please forgive my lack of knowledge about other more complex philosophies, but I have studied PRIMARILY shamanism for the last 11 years and have paid little heed to many other schools of thought in that time.
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (09/12/04 03:24 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3128607 - 09/13/04 05:43 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, Huehuecoyotyl, its nice to know that you've familiarized yourself with the literature 'about' shamanism, but it would do you well to acquaint yourself with the religious traditions of the world as well since, despite variations, they have endured with certain specific takes on reality - consensual ones which have plenty of space for individual religious experience without some solipsistic one-man approach.
You assume a great deal about the perceptions of others, yet admittedly you have not investigated the beliefs of others. I don't know what your issues are regarding 'church-going' people, but regardless of what they are you seem to have a stereotypical and hence predjudiced view of 'them.' This is a problem with having a singularly unique world-view based upon one person's experience - it is 'me' and 'them,' with billions of others being 'them.' Any empathy, solidaity, identification or love for 'them' in your experience?
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Shroomerious
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3128983 - 09/13/04 10:47 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is sex for money wrong?
For some people it is, for some it is not.- Ultimately sex for money just IS.
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Huehuecoyotl
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I have one problem with church going people. There are a lot who are well thought, moral people with a high degree of integrity. One of my best friends is a Baptist preacher(though he is very progressive in his views...considering). We have discussed religion often and I have always told him that if I was a church-going man I would go to his church. I consider any spiritual advice he gives to be appropriate and good. Now, there are many other Christians I have encountered who automatically consider anyone who does not attend their specific church damned to an eternity in Hell, and since you are damned you are beneath them for you are a sinner. I have been reminded on many occasions that if you are not a Christian, or even a specific type of Christian, you are damned. My daughter attended a church nearby with friends for a time, but she left due to, among other things, the preacher used racial slurs in the pulpit. According to this breed of Christian God only really likes white people. (I am a white man, by the way) I have heard many people in this area state opinions that even Jews were damned and that God's new chosen people are white Americans. I also frequently hear "Christians" speak of world domination plots that are overseen by the Jews or Catholics alternately. These things I find repulsive. So, in the past the Christianity I have been exposed to has not fulfilled me in any way.
It must be said that on this forum I have defended the Mormon and Catholic and Jewish religions against charges of plotting world domination. You can search that one for validity. So, I am not religiously intolerant. I believe that there is more than one path to the center.
What I am seeing here is that I was criticised in a dismissive way, by you, for expresssing a non Christian viewpoint. This is the typical attitude I see espoused by those who subscribe to organized religions that claim to be the only "true way". This is why organized religions come up lacking in my veiw.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3131459 - 09/13/04 08:20 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Projective Identification is a defense mechanism in which an individual projects a content from their own mind onto someone else, and then responds to that person as if they really embodied that projection.
Nowhere in my post did I assume a stance which was that of some kind of Christian judging a non-Christian - nowhere. I may have defined myself as a Jewish Christian, or a Jewish Christian Gnostic by extension, but I am not sitting in judgement of you - you have projected that content onto me. I do not belong to a Church. For your information, I was raised Reformed Jewish, Baptized in a Roman Catholic Church, obtained a Masters in Theological Studies degree from a United Methodist Seminary, and lean most closely to Orthodox Christian theology. If I made an evaluation at all it is that your individual, subjective intrapsychic experiences that do not belong to or reflect any ancient doctrine, does not communicate or relate to anyone else's experience of Divinity. Without communication of a shared spiritual value between people of other faiths, it helps nobody - not even you ultimately because you have chosen alienation not communication. Even if you were to discover a Transcendental Truth through shamanic experience, you would not be able to communicate it to others because of the idiosyncratic nature of your practices.
I am not now, nor have I ever been a preacher - a teacher perhaps, but that is rather different.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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gettinjiggywithit
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3131627 - 09/13/04 08:45 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said: Luke 12:24 - "Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds!"
Funny, I took that to mean something completely different. I take it to mean that if God provides for the unproductive, why would it not provide for even you? I took it to say, don't put yourself below the raven.
The part about how much more value are you than the birds was just a question for one to reflect upon to consider their ability to provide for themselves on top of being naturally provided for and to have faith in that like the raven does.
To me this is addressing people suffering in lack. I never would of read into it that it was telling me that I am more valuable then birds.
People, if the plant and animal kingdoms were stripped from this earth tommorow, guess what? I think a human can live for 3 days on water. I will never put my importance above them. We need them to survive, they don't need us. Think about that.
Did you know that elephants shed tears when their babies die? I saw a show once, where one elephant got stuck in the mud as the herd was moving. The other elephants became distressed and rallied around it. They organized themselves to hook up trunks while others pushed. They didn't give up until the elephant was freed.
I saw another show where plants were hooked to electromagntic frequency measuring devices. They have a natural output like we humans do. When the plant was approached by someone with a siscors and intent to cut it, the readings went bonkers. They were proportionally equivalent to that of the rise in a human when appraoched in a threatening manor.
In that same show, they did an experiement with two groups of the same plants. Each group was given the same amount of nutrients , light and water. The only difference was that one group was talked to and encouraged to grow daily and the other wasn't. In six weeks, the plants that were lovingly talked to were DOUBLE the size.
All stuff to think about.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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TheHateCamel
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3131761 - 09/13/04 09:03 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said: We are all special, HateCamel, whether we believe in Heaven or not.
Eh, what I mean is that we (humans) are no more special than a bird of a fern.
Nice thread by the way.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: TheHateCamel]
#3131802 - 09/13/04 09:11 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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It certainly has gone in many unexpected directions. Leave it to you guys.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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gettinjiggywithit
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3131827 - 09/13/04 09:15 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, LOL,
i was just thinking after I hit to post, why I was writing about plants and animals in a thread entitled "how much money for anal sex"
i'm getting the giggles now.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Nowhere in my post did I assume a stance which was that of some kind of Christian judging a non-Christian" Really, now, then what is this wordy nonsense. "That is quite ridiculous. The universe is not 'homogenous' in its densities, energies, complexities, etc. Your statements are pantheistic, yet not formerly so. All the grass blades in a huge expanse of land might contribute to the oxygen production, food for grazing animals, home for millions of insects and trillions of microbes and still not approximate the importance of one Mahatma Gandhi in terms of the concentration of consciousness at that human 'node' in the fabric of space-time. All 'things' and creatures are not equal. Why, even the Bible takes up this theme stating that a human is worth more than "many sparrows." Absolute values as those lying behind your assumptions, manifest 'unequally' among the various types of existence in the universe. There is a Great Chain of Being after all, rising upward from the simplest particles to the atomic, molecular, cellular, organismic developments, and thence (perhaps) to spiritual beings." I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but...I can understand enough big words to know when someone is calling me an idiot. I guess what must have rubbed me the wrong way, though, is calling on the Bible as some sort of absolute reference (which is myth, much wisdom, but all myth) to discredit my statement...anyway some people are fulfilled with organized religion, but I ain't. It is worth noting that my "assumptions" were derived from personal experience and are not assumptions at all to me. One of my mottos to live by is "Never Assume". Do keep in mind that I am not equating your statements with some of the religious craziness around where I live, but your disdain, while subtle, is still there.
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (09/13/04 09:34 PM)
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Huehuecoyotl
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Yeah, I hate posting to a thread called What price for anal intercourse?, it makes me feel cheap. I don't want to remembered for my contributions to the anal sex thread.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3131935 - 09/13/04 09:31 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: Yeah, I hate posting to a thread called What price for anal intercourse?, it makes me feel cheap. I don't want to remembered for my contributions to the anal sex thread.
I apologize for titling the thread like that.
I was laughing as I titled it, but I couldn't help myself. I mean, how dull to call it "Would you sell sex for money?"
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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gettinjiggywithit
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3131939 - 09/13/04 09:33 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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How bout it! Lol. I'm not a prude, but......... I was going to ask frog if she could change it to "Why humans are greater then plants and animals .....or not"
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Frog
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Okay, if you guys want me to change it, I will. Sigh.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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I have to add this.
Just because a blade of gras or a tree doesn't have eyes, ears a nose, mouth and touch nerves or a brain organ, doesn't neccesarily mean that the force which gives it life to grow, reproduce and evolve is infused with a consciousness any less vast then ours.
I'm curious, how does the DNA of a plant compare to that of a human.
Anyone know?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Plant DNA is much more complex I believe. I am not the final word on this. I do know that the lower the life form in complexity the more chromosomes it has.
I think my statements on this may have been understood out of context. I was not trying to say that human life was worthless...merely that we are not the God appointed masters of life on Earth. Life thrived here for millions of years before we evolved. Mankind is a recent addition to the ecosystem. We are remarkable, but only for the superior intelligence we have. Consider the words of Cheif Seattle:
"How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us.
If we do not own the freshness of the air and the sparkle of the water, how can you buy them?
Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every clearing and humming insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people. The sap which courses through the trees carries the memories of the red man.
The white man's dead forget the country of their birth when they go to walk among the stars. Our dead never forget this beautiful earth, for it is the mother of the red man. We are part of the earth and it is part of us. The perfumed flowers are our sisters; the deer, the horse, the great eagle, these are our brothers. The rocky crests, the juices in the meadows, the body heat of the pony, and man --- all belong to the same family.
So, when the Great Chief in Washington sends word that he wishes to buy our land, he asks much of us. The Great Chief sends word he will reserve us a place so that we can live comfortably to ourselves. He will be our father and we will be his children.
So, we will consider your offer to buy our land. But it will not be easy. For this land is sacred to us. This shining water that moves in the streams and rivers is not just water but the blood of our ancestors. If we sell you the land, you must remember that it is sacred, and you must teach your children that it is sacred and that each ghostly reflection in the clear water of the lakes tells of events and memories in the life of my people. The water's murmur is the voice of my father's father.
The rivers are our brothers, they quench our thirst. The rivers carry our canoes, and feed our children. If we sell you our land, you must remember, and teach your children, that the rivers are our brothers and yours, and you must henceforth give the rivers the kindness you would give any brother.
We know that the white man does not understand our ways. One portion of land is the same to him as the next, for he is a stranger who comes in the night and takes from the land whatever he needs. The earth is not his brother, but his enemy, and when he has conquered it, he moves on. He leaves his father's grave behind, and he does not care. He kidnaps the earth from his children, and he does not care. His father's grave, and his children's birthright are forgotten. He treats his mother, the earth, and his brother, the sky, as things to be bought, plundered, sold like sheep or bright beads. His appetite will devour the earth and leave behind only a desert.
I do not know. Our ways are different than your ways. The sight of your cities pains the eyes of the red man. There is no quiet place in the white man's cities. No place to hear the unfurling of leaves in spring or the rustle of the insect's wings. The clatter only seems to insult the ears. And what is there to life if a man cannot hear the lonely cry of the whippoorwill or the arguments of the frogs around the pond at night? I am a red man and do not understand. The Indian prefers the soft sound of the wind darting over the face of a pond and the smell of the wind itself, cleaned by a midday rain, or scented with pinon pine.
The air is precious to the red man for all things share the same breath, the beast, the tree, the man, they all share the same breath. The white man does not seem to notice the air he breathes. Like a man dying for many days he is numb to the stench. But if we sell you our land, you must remember that the air is precious to us, that the air shares its spirit with all the life it supports.
The wind that gave our grandfather his first breath also receives his last sigh. And if we sell you our land, you must keep it apart and sacred as a place where even the white man can go to taste the wind that is sweetened by the meadow's flowers.
So we will consider your offer to buy our land. If we decide to accept, I will make one condition - the white man must treat the beasts of this land as his brothers.
I am a savage and do not understand any other way. I have seen a thousand rotting buffaloes on the prairie, left by the white man who shot them from a passing train. I am a savage and do not understand how the smoking iron horse can be made more important than the buffalo that we kill only to stay alive.
What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone, man would die from a great loneliness of the spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected.
You must teach your children that the ground beneath their feet is the ashes of our grandfathers. So that they will respect the land, tell your children that the earth is rich with the lives of our kin. Teach your children that we have taught our children that the earth is our mother. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of earth. If men spit upon the ground, they spit upon themselves.
This we know; the earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth. This we know. All things are connected like the blood which unites one family. All things are connected.
Even the white man, whose God walks and talks with him as friend to friend, cannot be exempt from the common destiny. We may be brothers after all. We shall see. One thing we know which the white man may one day discover; our God is the same God.
You may think now that you own Him as you wish to own our land; but you cannot. He is the God of man, and His compassion is equal for the red man and the white. The earth is precious to Him, and to harm the earth is to heap contempt on its creator. The whites too shall pass; perhaps sooner than all other tribes. Contaminate your bed and you will one night suffocate in your own waste.
But in your perishing you will shine brightly fired by the strength of the God who brought you to this land and for some special purpose gave you dominion over this land and over the red man.
That destiny is a mystery to us, for we do not understand when the buffalo are all slaughtered, the wild horses are tamed, the secret corners of the forest heavy with the scent of many men and the view of the ripe hills blotted by talking wires.
Where is the thicket? Gone. Where is the eagle? Gone.
The end of living and the beginning of survival."
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gettinjiggywithit
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3132062 - 09/13/04 09:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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You smart ass frog! I love it!
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
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I was never in disagreeance with you hue on this one. I understood where you were coming from which is why I added what I did.
Thanks for the plant DNA bit.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Huehuecoyotl
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I know. I was just remarking on the response I recieved to the very brief statement I made earlier concerning this subject. At the time I was speaking loosely when I made the remark and I fear my intentions may have been misunderstood as an abiding dislike of more organized religions, when, in truth, I believe to each his (or her) own...even concerning anal sex (yuck) as well as religion.
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Frog
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I'm a Christian, and I don't really have a problem with organized religions except for the types of people that are drawn to them. I ain't one of those types of people.
What I like about going to church (I don't go very often any more) is that it sort of gets me grounded. Sometimes, I get kind of lost in the sea of iniquity, during the week, month, year, life.
So if I go to church, just listening to the pastor talk can help me get back into focus.
However, the types of peoples drawn to church are usually the type that judge others. I have Christians in my family that are no fun to hang around. One of my sisters wouldn't let her son see any of the Harry Potter movies, or read the books, because they are based on witchcraft and that is against God, therefore from the devil, and therefore taboo. I guess I'm a sinner.
I have patience now for these types of people. I didn't use to. I use to feel bad about myself, that I "was" such a sinner. But now I realize that many Christians (or insert religion of choice) are just human, and sometimes ignorant, or not very advanced in their thinking. But they are trying to do the right thing, even if it's the wrong thing.
And I think of the way a lot of you have had patience with me on this forum. There have been several subjects discussed here where I had to change my mind. And even though some people have not had patience, I would say it's been a relatively good experience, the way some people here have challenged my thinking in a positive way, without making me feel stupid. This thread is an example.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said:
Quote:
Frog said: Luke 12:24 - "Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds!"
Funny, I took that to mean something completely different. I take it to mean that if God provides for the unproductive, why would it not provide for even you? I took it to say, don't put yourself below the raven.
I imagine that there are unproductive human beings for whom God provides.
When I have gone to bible studies and church, that passage is typically interpreted as meaning that animals don't worry about tomorrow. They don't store stuff, in case of tomorrrow. And that animals are lesser than humans. And if animals are lesser than humans, and animals don't have to worry about tomorrow, then why should humans worry about tomorrow, when God loves them more than animals?
I agree that animals probably have souls, but I still think that God holds human beings in higher esteem than He does animals.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3133295 - 09/14/04 05:49 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'll tell you what IS there - paranoia, feelings of persecution on YOUR part. If you are experiencing a self-esteem problem, don't project it onto me! I do not call people stupid, neither do I play subtle mind-games and insinuate that others are stupid. I work with adolescents full time, and they really ARE young and stupid but I'd never damage them by saying so. You are further projecting some profound arrogance onto me and I can tell you that I do not walk with a swagger. Look at your own stuff more closely - you know, more Biblical Wisdom: 'Remove the beam from your own eye before you point out the [dust] mote in another's eye.' Projection, Biblical style.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: frog is a smart ass [Re: Frog]
#3134635 - 09/14/04 02:04 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I never meant to imply that you were a judgemental person. I do have some misgivings about your fascination with anal sex between men, but that is purely your business. Seriously, now, I don't know you or much about you and I never got the feeling that you or Markostheagnostic were anything but fine people, but if I sometimes disagree with you it is because I like to debate and debate is an important part of discussion. It is true that I live in red-neck, fundamentalist, Christian utopia here in Kentucky so I have a tendancy to dislike that extreme judgemental mindset that many rural Christians have. As I did say, though, I do have many Christian friends who do not have such an attitude. As I said before I feel all religions have their place in life and that there is no single right answer for everyone.
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BlueOrb
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Religion....What a contridiction Ha.....
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Huehuecoyotl
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Many people who consider themselves intellectuals often have a tendancy to be dismissive of others with whom they do not agree. This is often done without concious thought. I do this myself purely by accident, and sometimes because I am just a mean spirited son of a bitch. This is a slight failing of many intellectuals. Of course, in your job I am sure you are quite careful to avoid alienating your clients...as am I (I am a computer support guy who often (though wrongly) feels that I am dealing with idiots), but at work I am careful...in real life I often slip. I never said you were persecuting me. IF you COULD persecute me (or even anger me) through words written on a web page I would be a very weak individual indeed. I merely meant to state that you were dismissive in a slightly belittling way. In reality that really doesn't bother me not in the least, but in a debate it strikes against one's credibility. Calling your opponents credibility into question is a standard (and valid) debate tool. If you think I seem schizophrenic, as another poster pointed out earlier on this thread, my namesake is to blame.
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (09/14/04 04:04 PM)
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Huehuecoyotl
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Anyway, I got a rise out of you....
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3135127 - 09/14/04 03:58 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I do not think that you are schizophrenic.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MOTH
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Re: frog is a smart ass [Re: Frog]
#3135151 - 09/14/04 04:06 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said:
I have patience now for these types of people. I didn't use to. I use to feel bad about myself, that I "was" such a sinner. But now I realize that many Christians (or insert religion of choice) are just human, and sometimes ignorant, or not very advanced in their thinking. But they are trying to do the right thing, even if it's the wrong thing.
That's precisely how I feel about my parents now. I'm still recovering from years of invalidation and abuse but I can see now that they *thought* they were doing the right thing. They love me and I know that. At the time, they just couldn't see how they were hurting me. I've forgiven them, but that doesn't mean that I don't get really pissed off occasionally when I think about what I went through.
anyway, sorry that was sorta off topic. Carry on.
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SkorpivoMusterion
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3135247 - 09/14/04 04:26 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was certain that you would indeed feel the energy of jest behind the rhetoric schizo-poke... There seems to be a whole lot of miscommunication, misinterpretation and misunderstanding going on in this thread.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Huehuecoyotl
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I know why you said it, and you are correct. Did I dispute you?
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Frog
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Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Huehuecoyotl said: I never meant to imply that you were a judgemental person. I do have some misgivings about your fascination with anal sex between men, but that is purely your business. Seriously, now, I don't know you or much about you and I never got the feeling that you or Markostheagnostic were anything but fine people, but if I sometimes disagree with you it is because I like to debate and debate is an important part of discussion. It is true that I live in red-neck, fundamentalist, Christian utopia here in Kentucky so I have a tendancy to dislike that extreme judgemental mindset that many rural Christians have. As I did say, though, I do have many Christian friends who do not have such an attitude. As I said before I feel all religions have their place in life and that there is no single right answer for everyone.
Whoa. I wasn't inferring that you thought I am a judgmental person. I was just sharing my own beliefs about judgmental Christians.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: frog is a smart ass [Re: MOTH]
#3136861 - 09/14/04 10:29 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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EllemyshShade said:
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Frog said:
I have patience now for these types of people. I didn't use to. I use to feel bad about myself, that I "was" such a sinner. But now I realize that many Christians (or insert religion of choice) are just human, and sometimes ignorant, or not very advanced in their thinking. But they are trying to do the right thing, even if it's the wrong thing.
That's precisely how I feel about my parents now. I'm still recovering from years of invalidation and abuse but I can see now that they *thought* they were doing the right thing. They love me and I know that. At the time, they just couldn't see how they were hurting me. I've forgiven them, but that doesn't mean that I don't get really pissed off occasionally when I think about what I went through.
anyway, sorry that was sorta off topic. Carry on.
Wasn't off topic at all, considering the many different directions this thread has taken.
I don't think I went through what you went through, but I had to de-tox, nonetheless. It's taken years. I'm still not totally cleansed of my Catholic upbringing.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3137187 - 09/14/04 11:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I know why you said it, and you are correct. Did I dispute you?
Ah, so you ARE schizophrenic?
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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