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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
    #3125407 - 09/12/04 08:34 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I thoroughly believe that I have been 'caught up to' a Heaven. I will not attempt to elaborate other than to say that it WAS Light, it WAS Awareness of Light and Infinite Compassion, but 'I' was not present to it. That is to say, Markos was not present to it. There was no self-reflection like "Wow! I'm in Heaven!" There was total absence of personal, linguistic, memory, image or form of 'my self' at all. There was only Unbearable Compassion which was Ecstatic and (as the Hindus say) Self-Effulgent, Radiant. When the Experience subsided, the Infinite and Eternal Ocean of Compassion 'contracted' in the twinkling of an eye to a 'point' of intense Compassionate-feeling which now had become finite and localized in my Heart Center. This is why even as a Jewish Christian, I wear a ring and a bracelet with the Great Mantra of Vajrayana [Diamond Vehicle]: OM MANI PADMA HUM -
The Absolute [GOD] is a Jewel [Compassion] in the Lotus [Blossoming] of my Heart.

Whatever Heaven this was, and it WAS one, did not admit of any 'limiting' form, although I dare say that there was Light AND color, but no personal identity, no embodiedness whatsoever. The result of the State impressed upon me the metaphysical translation of what ordinarily seems like a mere social order - to love one another. The commandment to love one another is not so that a world full of loving people form a loving community on Earth - a veritable Heaven-on-Earth. NO. The commandment to love one another, and to love GOD, it occurred to me, is because ONLY our love 'gets into' Heaven. Only love is compatible with Heaven because, as I Experienced, "GOD is love." Only to the extent that we become transformed into Love itself, do we Experience Heaven. Everything else is annihilated. Only ourselves as Love becomes One with GOD. Only the Compassion-Love in us IS GOD - not the rest. The rest dies. How could it be otherwise? Have you ever had a song-jingle drive you crazy for a day? Imagine 90 human years of life-memories being repeated in an Eternal State! HELL!

Just my .02 Cents.
-MtG


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3125408 - 09/12/04 08:35 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I believe that HueHue may be symbologically and internally misinterpreting his somewhat-panthiestic pontification.. I believe a more accurate statement of what he may be trying to get across is that the God-force, or Being inherently loves the human with a sacred and unfathomable intensity and radiance, and yet, loves the blade of grass no less, nor any creature.. for all things that are inherently of the very essence of Being, that is, the One-life that is within all beings subject to life and death, are all part of Being, or God-force [The pantheistic energy].

But then again, y'never know with HueHue.. he's a little schizo. :heart:



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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OfflineFrog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3125574 - 09/12/04 10:22 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

What you experienced as "heaven" and God's love sounds good enough for me.  :grin: 

Thank you, Markos.  :heart:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
    #3125781 - 09/12/04 11:35 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"We're not animals, so therefore God must exist."

This is a very arrogant statement in my opinion. To think that we are not animals is what is making our race so fucked up to begin with. In my opinion people need to stop thinking that mankind is so much more "special" than the other animals on this planet. We've just lucked out with somebody inventing "the tool" and advancing language so much. We may be more "advanced" creatures but we're still animals IMO. Animals with money.

When I look in the eyes of any animal, I see just as much life and energy and "spirit" than when I look into a person's eyes. Thinking we are not animals allows us to remove their homes and wipe out entire speciaes because "hey they're JUST animals..... ha stupid animals!!"

We're the stupid animals at this point.

sorry to go off-topic with that....


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Strumpling]
    #3125791 - 09/12/04 11:38 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

the question is, should it be legal for me to charge people for having sex with my pet pig?


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineFrog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Strumpling]
    #3125806 - 09/12/04 11:43 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, well, don't worry.  I've been set straight.  :grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3125837 - 09/12/04 11:55 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

OK, but what I'm saying is that despite the idea that we and the blade of grass both partake of existence, both exist in the fabric of space-time, GOD, the Ground of Being, manifests far far moreso in sentient human beings than [S]He does in grass blades. The human tendency to anthropomorphize GOD must also be seen in reverse - that humans are created in "the image and likeness of GOD," which is to distill out the non-material aspects of human beinghood that are a reflection of GOD's Being. This is true for us even if Compassion is the only True 'spark' of the Divine that we have in our being (as opposed to all those Old Testament attributes like jealousy, anger, etc.). This is also not to say that we are necessarily the 'crown of creation.' An Enlightened human may well be on this world, or in this human realm. I suspect that there are other realms, such as those mapped on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life - a celestial hierarchy of beings perhaps.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3125937 - 09/12/04 12:42 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I cannot believe that after recommending Eliade's book on this forum at least 10 times someone is suggesting I read it. Well, I did, 4 time through because it was rather dry and took much study to digest. It is a look at classic siberian shamanism. I have also indicated that Castaneda was fiction to at least 10 people on this forum and now you are assuming I just read a Castaneda book and thought I was a shaman of some sort. Come on, that is ridiculous. I am very familiar with all of the classic writings and have had an opportunity to converse with a Native American shaman on several occasions. These fine texts and my interactions with others are only pointing a direction. Shamanism is about forming your own very personal ideas about spiritualism through direct interaction with the spirit, and using this knowledge to heal the self and others. This process is not dependant on the opinions and dogma of others as it is personal and very subjective.

My ideas about spiritualism were not ripped off from Castaneda, or Eliade for that matter, or even from the Christian Bible or the Koran. They are the result of my direct interaction with the spirit. My ideas don't have to conform to your preconcieved notions about shamanism because they are my own. I do adopt practical ideas from various sources such as Eliade or The Tao Te Ching. I have even found that Castaneda's books contain some practical ideas as well as he was quite familiar with the subject, though, it was fiction. These are only markers, though, if you know anything about Shamanism you know that it is about DIRECT interation with the spirit world. You guys can sit in Church and let someone TELL you about the spirit world as much as you want, but I can only believe in that which I have had direct contact with. A lot of fancy words (and you are a good writer with a vocabulary exeeding mine)are not needed to describe it. The truth is very simple. As far as I am concerned the criticism of those who ascribe to organized religions is a complement because all these religions ever did for me was cause me to form bogus illusions about the world around me. For the record...I have NEVER claimed to be a shaman...I am just interested...deeply.

If you think that Man's inherant superiority over the creation is present in shamanistic belief you are quite mistaken. All shamanic cultures veiw our fellow creatures on this planet as brothers and sisters while still acknowledging that the cycle is dependant on some animals becoming food for others. Man is NOT exempt from this because we are superior. Try telling a 1200 Lb Grizzly Bear that he can't eat you because he is inferior. Man is part of the creation NOT above it. It is a fact to me because I have seen it, felt it, and experienced it to the core of my being. Get your head out of your books and get experience with your God.

Note: Please forgive my lack of knowledge about other more complex philosophies, but I have studied PRIMARILY shamanism for the last 11 years and have paid little heed to many other schools of thought in that time.

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (09/12/04 03:24 PM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3128607 - 09/13/04 05:43 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Well, Huehuecoyotyl, its nice to know that you've familiarized yourself with the literature 'about' shamanism, but it would do you well to acquaint yourself with the religious traditions of the world as well since, despite variations, they have endured with certain specific takes on reality - consensual ones which have plenty of space for individual religious experience without some solipsistic one-man approach.

You assume a great deal about the perceptions of others, yet admittedly you have not investigated the beliefs of others. I don't know what your issues are regarding 'church-going' people, but regardless of what they are you seem to have a stereotypical and hence predjudiced view of 'them.' This is a problem with having a singularly unique world-view based upon one person's experience - it is 'me' and 'them,' with billions of others being 'them.' Any empathy, solidaity, identification or love for 'them' in your experience?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
    #3128983 - 09/13/04 10:47 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Is sex for money wrong?

For some people it is, for some it is not.-
Ultimately sex for money just IS.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3131324 - 09/13/04 07:51 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I have one problem with church going people. There are a lot who are well thought, moral people with a high degree of integrity. One of my best friends is a Baptist preacher(though he is very progressive in his views...considering). We have discussed religion often and I have always told him that if I was a church-going man I would go to his church. I consider any spiritual advice he gives to be appropriate and good. Now, there are many other Christians I have encountered who automatically consider anyone who does not attend their specific church damned to an eternity in Hell, and since you are damned you are beneath them for you are a sinner. I have been reminded on many occasions that if you are not a Christian, or even a specific type of Christian, you are damned. My daughter attended a church nearby with friends for a time, but she left due to, among other things, the preacher used racial slurs in the pulpit. According to this breed of Christian God only really likes white people. (I am a white man, by the way) I have heard many people in this area state opinions that even Jews were damned and that God's new chosen people are white Americans. I also frequently hear "Christians" speak of world domination plots that are overseen by the Jews or Catholics alternately. These things I find repulsive. So, in the past the Christianity I have been exposed to has not fulfilled me in any way.

It must be said that on this forum I have defended the Mormon and Catholic and Jewish religions against charges of plotting world domination. You can search that one for validity. So, I am not religiously intolerant. I believe that there is more than one path to the center.

What I am seeing here is that I was criticised in a dismissive way, by you, for expresssing a non Christian viewpoint. This is the typical attitude I see espoused by those who subscribe to organized religions that claim to be the only "true way". This is why organized religions come up lacking in my veiw.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3131459 - 09/13/04 08:20 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Projective Identification is a defense mechanism in which an individual projects a content from their own mind onto someone else, and then responds to that person as if they really embodied that projection.

Nowhere in my post did I assume a stance which was that of some kind of Christian judging a non-Christian - nowhere. I may have defined myself as a Jewish Christian, or a Jewish Christian Gnostic by extension, but I am not sitting in judgement of you - you have projected that content onto me. I do not belong to a Church. For your information, I was raised Reformed Jewish, Baptized in a Roman Catholic Church, obtained a Masters in Theological Studies degree from a United Methodist Seminary, and lean most closely to Orthodox Christian theology. If I made an evaluation at all it is that your individual, subjective intrapsychic experiences that do not belong to or reflect any ancient doctrine, does not communicate or relate to anyone else's experience of Divinity. Without communication of a shared spiritual value between people of other faiths, it helps nobody - not even you ultimately because you have chosen alienation not communication. Even if you were to discover a Transcendental Truth through shamanic experience, you would not be able to communicate it to others because of the idiosyncratic nature of your practices.

I am not now, nor have I ever been a preacher - a teacher perhaps, but that is rather different.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
    #3131627 - 09/13/04 08:45 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
Luke 12:24 - "Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds!"




Funny, I took that to mean something completely different. I take it to mean that if God provides for the unproductive, why would it not provide for even you? I took it to say, don't put yourself below the raven.

The part about how much more value are you than the birds was just a question for one to reflect upon to consider their ability to provide for themselves on top of being naturally provided for and to have faith in that like the raven does.

To me this is addressing people suffering in lack. I never would of read into it that it was telling me that I am more valuable then birds.

People, if the plant and animal kingdoms were stripped from this earth tommorow, guess what? I think a human can live for 3 days on water. I will never put my importance above them. We need them to survive, they don't need us. Think about that.

Did you know that elephants shed tears when their babies die? I saw a show once, where one elephant got stuck in the mud as the herd was moving. The other elephants became distressed and rallied around it. They organized themselves to hook up trunks while others pushed. They didn't give up until the elephant was freed.

I saw another show where plants were hooked to electromagntic frequency measuring devices. They have a natural output like we humans do. When the plant was approached by someone with a siscors and intent to cut it, the readings went bonkers. They were proportionally equivalent to that of the rise in a human when appraoched in a threatening manor.

In that same show, they did an experiement with two groups of the same plants. Each group was given the same amount of nutrients , light and water. The only difference was that one group was talked to and encouraged to grow daily and the other wasn't. In six weeks, the plants that were lovingly talked to were DOUBLE the size.

All stuff to think about.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
    #3131761 - 09/13/04 09:03 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
We are all special, HateCamel, whether we believe in Heaven or not.




Eh, what I mean is that we (humans) are no more special than a bird of a fern.

Nice thread by the way.

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OfflineFrog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #3131802 - 09/13/04 09:11 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

It certainly has gone in many unexpected directions.  Leave it to you guys.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
    #3131827 - 09/13/04 09:15 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, LOL,

i was just thinking after I hit to post, why I was writing about plants and animals in a thread entitled "how much money for anal sex"

i'm getting the giggles now.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3131884 - 09/13/04 09:24 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Nowhere in my post did I assume a stance which was that of some kind of Christian judging a non-Christian"

Really, now, then what is this wordy nonsense.

"That is quite ridiculous. The universe is not 'homogenous' in its densities, energies, complexities, etc. Your statements are pantheistic, yet not formerly so. All the grass blades in a huge expanse of land might contribute to the oxygen production, food for grazing animals, home for millions of insects and trillions of microbes and still not approximate the importance of one Mahatma Gandhi in terms of the concentration of consciousness at that human 'node' in the fabric of space-time. All 'things' and creatures are not equal. Why, even the Bible takes up this theme stating that a human is worth more than "many sparrows." Absolute values as those lying behind your assumptions, manifest 'unequally' among the various types of existence in the universe. There is a Great Chain of Being after all, rising upward from the simplest particles to the atomic, molecular, cellular, organismic developments, and thence (perhaps) to spiritual beings."

I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but...I can understand enough big words to know when someone is calling me an idiot. I guess what must have rubbed me the wrong way, though, is calling on the Bible as some sort of absolute reference (which is myth, much wisdom, but all myth) to discredit my statement...anyway some people are fulfilled with organized religion, but I ain't. It is worth noting that my "assumptions" were derived from personal experience and are not assumptions at all to me. One of my mottos to live by is "Never Assume".

Do keep in mind that I am not equating your statements with some of the religious craziness around where I live, but your disdain, while subtle, is still there.

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (09/13/04 09:34 PM)

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3131916 - 09/13/04 09:28 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, I hate posting to a thread called What price for anal intercourse?, it makes me feel cheap. I don't want to remembered for my contributions to the anal sex thread.

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OfflineFrog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3131935 - 09/13/04 09:31 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Yeah, I hate posting to a thread called What price for anal intercourse?, it makes me feel cheap. I don't want to remembered for my contributions to the anal sex thread.




I apologize for titling the thread like that.  :grin:

I was laughing as I titled it, but I couldn't help myself.  I mean, how dull to call it "Would you sell sex for money?"


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3131939 - 09/13/04 09:33 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

How bout it! Lol. I'm not a prude, but......... I was going to ask frog if she could change it to "Why humans are greater then plants and animals .....or not"


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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