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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: silversoul7]
#3123424 - 09/11/04 07:16 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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silversoul7 said: That sure would be nice, wouldn't it? Too bad you don't know that for certain.
No, I don't know for certain. *shrugs*
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Seems to me that for most people that's more about self-assurance and wishful thinking than it is about getting into heaven. It must feel nice to think you have this life figured out.
It's not wishful thinking, for me. I just choose to believe this way. No one else has to believe this, and again, yes, I could be wrong.
And I don't think I have this life figured out. There are things I have figured out, and I'm comfortable with most of what I believe, but also my mind is open to others' beliefs, even if I ultimately disagree. I accept that others aren't going to believe what I believe. No big deal to me.
What's wrong with thinking one has figured things out? At least I am providing you with the opportunity to look smugly at me, confident in your knowledge that I'm wrong.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3123435 - 09/11/04 07:19 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Fucknuckle said: Any woman who turns down cash for sex when offered and don't take it is only being stupid. Just don't tell anyone silly.
Every woman I have dated expects me to buy and pay for all kinds of shit even if she has no plans on being my wife. Women in all points in history treat men like this. And if any women say diff than she is a liar. So you should take the cash and give up the asshole.
Be honest to yourself and take what you want. You want it.
Women take trades all the time for sex. How many of you have dated a guy just because of what he has????? HUm.... Yep and at some point there is a mercey fuck or two right??? SAME AS SELLING YOUR ASSHOLE.
ALL PEOPLE MEN AND WOMEN sell thier bodies. GET REAL!!! Sell that ass girl, take them for a ride. Try and make a squeeze play. Make them play from your hands. Make them boys pay out the ass...er.. your ass.
Ever seen the movie, EVITA??? Samething
LOL!!! You're terrible!!!
I know what women are like. That's why I advertise "Attorney for Men." I don't want to work for women in divorce actions because I don't like the way most of them operate. Very few of them are honest or fair.
Wasn't Evita in love with that guy that she married???
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3123444 - 09/11/04 07:20 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Huehuecoyotl said: The Christian view of animals is sinful.
What is the Christian view of animals?
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123469 - 09/11/04 07:25 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Frog, just because a being has a less complex form of cognition, does not mean that it just MUST be spiritless.
Answer me this, Frog what do you think is the purpose of us having a spirit? To operate and control our physical vessels in which we have incarnated into(?) -- I'm assuming you believe that we came here into this plane of existence to learn and evolve, from Heaven, or scientifically, the 3rd (or higher) dimension.
So, my real question is.. if you think that animals, such as our pets for example, have no spirits or souls to begin with, then am I to assume that you believe there are NO animals in Heaven/Next Dimension? Just us humans? No dogs, no cats, no apes, no eagles, no hippos, no girraffes, no wolves, no plants, nothing AT ALL.. that experiences Being on this plane of existence and is subject to life and death, except us humans?
Hmmm?
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Frog
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Well, Skorpivo, I have often wondered if our pets will be in heaven. When a family pet has died, I have told my kids that we will see it in Heaven, but I never knew for sure if that's really true.
I had a talk with someone else about this, and he said that animals may have a spirit and soul, that they feel emotions. That they don't just feel emotions that are motivated by survival, such as fear, but that they form attachments, they show love, they show some kind of embarrassment when scolded, etc.
So maybe y'all are right, and I'm wrong.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123563 - 09/11/04 07:47 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Frog said: What's wrong with thinking one has figured things out? At least I am providing you with the opportunity to look smugly at me, confident in your knowledge that I'm wrong.
It's not that I think you're wrong(that would imply that I knew the truth and you didn't, which would make me just as bad as any bible-thumper). It's that I think you're too willing to believe things because you want them to be true. Personally, I hope there is a God, and I hope there is an afterlife, and I think both of those are certainly possible, but I'm able to recognize that reality is not necessarily what I want it to be. What's wrong with thinking you have things figured out is that at that point, you stop asking questions.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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TheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123593 - 09/11/04 07:54 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's funny about hevan, you have to think you are special if you believe in hevan.
What would make god like humans better than any other living thing on Earth?
"Sorry all other beautiful crations, you don't get in, no soul, yoo know?"
Also, what good is hevan if it isn't perfect for you, if your beloved pet isn't there that would be dissapointing.
The idea of hevan is so obsecure and objective you can't even have a conversation about it unless both people agree completly.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: silversoul7]
#3123599 - 09/11/04 07:56 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've said in the past that I know I could be wrong. But I'm still choosing to believe. *shrugs again* And as I've said in the past, if it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal, right?
But I am always asking questions, and because of the questions I have asked, and things I have learned, I've had to change my mind about things (like currently, about animals having spirits). But only if I've received good answers.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123616 - 09/11/04 08:00 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you acknowledge the possibility that you could be wrong, then that's all I'm looking for. The only reason I was arguing with you was that you said with such confidence that you're going to live forever, and that there is a God. Such statements always bait me into bursting people's bubbles.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3123801 - 09/11/04 08:58 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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That humans are superior. No form of life is more superior to another. The smallest blade of grass has equal importance to a human in the univrse. We all have a purpose. Every purpose is equal in importance.
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: silversoul7]
#3124211 - 09/11/04 10:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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silversoul7 said: If you acknowledge the possibility that you could be wrong, then that's all I'm looking for. The only reason I was arguing with you was that you said with such confidence that you're going to live forever, and that there is a God. Such statements always bait me into bursting people's bubbles.
Oh, well, I'm always making statements as if I'm right, and then I wait for someone to burst my bubble.
If you read the first page or so of this thread, I said that I wasn't sure of my position on the sex for pay thing, but that I would argue my position as if I was sure, and see what happened (or something like that).
That's probably why I don't have too much pride in hanging onto my position, such as my position on whether animals have spirits. Turns out I'm wrong, and that's fine.
But so far, I'm still maintaining my position that sex for money is wrong, although someone could still come along and give me a better counter-argument than that which I have received so far and change my mind.
This place is so much fun!!! *slaps self upside the head*
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: TheHateCamel]
#3124237 - 09/11/04 11:04 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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TheHateCamel said: It's funny about hevan, you have to think you are special if you believe in hevan.
We are all special, HateCamel, whether we believe in Heaven or not.
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What would make god like humans better than any other living thing on Earth?
"Sorry all other beautiful crations, you don't get in, no soul, yoo know?"
Also, what good is hevan if it isn't perfect for you, if your beloved pet isn't there that would be dissapointing.
I agree, now. And keep in mind, though, that I never said that pets "shouldn't go to heaven". I said they had no spirit, or whaver. I have always hoped we would see our pets in heaven. I just didn't know how they would get there.
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The idea of hevan is so obsecure and objective you can't even have a conversation about it unless both people agree completly.
I know. When I was younger, I had this (literal) idea that heaven really was a place up in the clouds. Now I realize that heaven is not there. Heaven may not really even be a place. Maybe it's a different dimension. And maybe everything that is written in the bible is wrong.
We'll all find out one way or the other, eventually, right?
See you when we're dead!!!
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Strumpling
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3124294 - 09/11/04 11:16 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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sex for money is wrong because it is illegal.
why did they make it illegal? I have no idea..
As for the big question, I would probably let that happen to me for $100 million
-------------------- Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me. In addition: SHPONGLE
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3124295 - 09/11/04 11:16 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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That is quite ridiculous. The universe is not 'homogenous' in its densities, energies, complexities, etc. Your statements are pantheistic, yet not formerly so. All the grass blades in a huge expanse of land might contribute to the oxygen production, food for grazing animals, home for millions of insects and trillions of microbes and still not approximate the importance of one Mahatma Gandhi in terms of the concentration of consciousness at that human 'node' in the fabric of space-time. All 'things' and creatures are not equal. Why, even the Bible takes up this theme stating that a human is worth more than "many sparrows." Absolute values as those lying behind your assumptions, manifest 'unequally' among the various types of existence in the universe. There is a Great Chain of Being after all, rising upward from the simplest particles to the atomic, molecular, cellular, organismic developments, and thence (perhaps) to spiritual beings.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Frog
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Markos, I was hoping someone would have an answer for the "blade of grass" thing. What you wrote makes sense, especially your statement "a human is worth more than many sparrows."
So if I now acknowledge that animals have spirits and go to heaven, too (assuming heaven exists), how do animals fit in with what you said?
Luke 12:7 - "Fear not; you are of more value than many sparrows."
Luke 12:24 - "Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds!"
This would sort of imply to me that we are more important, at least to God, if He exists, than animals are. But I still agree that animals probably have spirits, and will be in heaven, where ever that is, with us.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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I don't think so. We are all cogs in the wheels of a very large machine. This machine needs all of it's parts to function properly. If you think that in the scheme of the universe you are more important than any other part you are mistaken. This is a supreme expression of self importance. I personally believe that all living things have a "degree" of conciousness (according to it's need) and a spiritual essence. I do not think that man was created special by some all seeing God. This is a fundamental view that is also embraced by most shamanic cultures. We are merely the most evolved animal on our planet, a luck of the draw that leaves us with the responsibility of it's stewardship. ALL life should be treated with supreme reverence no matter how small. The taking of it should be undertaken only after much consideration has been undertaken. To waste a sacred resource such as life is what I veiw as a sin. This does not mean I would just as soon shoot you with my shotgun as cut my grass with my lawnmower. As I said our position leaves us as our planet's stewards, but not as it's owners. If this seems "simple" or "primitive" then I appreciate the complement. As far as The Bible goes...there is wisdom in it as in all mythologies, BUT IT IS myth.
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plexus
holding thelight of athousand candles
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3124469 - 09/11/04 11:58 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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"if fucking is legal, and selling is legal, then selling fucking should be legal" -george carlin
-------------------- that there, thats not me. i go where i please. im not here. this isnt happening.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Frog]
#3124505 - 09/12/04 12:10 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just so you know (working backwards) by the late 60's, the Catholic Church retracted the LIE that the woman "who loved much" was a prostitute. Mary Magdalene was NOT a prostitute. Pope Gregory started that lie by his own interpretation, and it has effected women up to present times - the Magdalane laundresses for example. Atrocities and sexual persecution. The seven devils were never clarified. May well have been a case of Dissociative Disorder (formerly, Multiple Personality Disorder). Mary may well have been the 'consort' of Jesus of Nazareth, sexually or not, perhaps an 'unorthodox' [literally] marriage. She seems to have been painted by DaVinci in place of "the beloved disciple" John, because DaVinci knew that the Church had re-written history and replaced Mary with Peter. Later surfacing of writings (i.e., The Gospel of Mary Magdalene ) which we've had for 150 years) would supply further evidence of the importance of this #1 female disciple in the original Christian story (not the one told by misogynistic, probably homosexual, so-called Church Fathers).
St. Thomas Aquinas speculated that the human soul included but transcended the sum total of animal souls. It is interesting how the Bhagavad Gita illustrates how humans can act like 'pigs,' or like [horny] 'dogs' or other sub-human species, and find themselves manifesting in animal bodies after death. I swear that I know people who are new to human bodies - they manifest hints of animality in their appearance and behaviors.
I am cognitively superior and have superior manual dexterity which enables me to build devices, do art, make medicines, etc. But...a bloodhound can smell a scent miles away (so can a shark); an eagle can see a field mouse from a mile up; a mountain gorilla could snap any bone in my body with little effort, if they weren't gentle for the most part. Most species do not kill their own kind, and never kill for sheer sadism or for ideology or for sport. I have met very cognitively limited but very kind Down's Syndrome humans. A kind heart is more important to me than a brilliant mind. The light of Intelligence without Compassion is simply Lucifer. Lots of creatures have faculties that are 'superior' to mine whether height, strength, acceptance of fate, grace in dying, loyalty, parenting, non-aggression (though much bigger and stronger than any human). I am not merely my intellect, and I am not completely identified with the power of intellection. Intellect does not even assure a happy human life, and in my experience, actually works against positive social processes. I mean, I don't want friendships that are soley based on the discussion of the philosophy of Hegel (though that would be cool for me), but I have never cared one wit for who won what ballgame. Adolescence was no picnic I'll tell you.
Yeah, yeah, Gentiles have been 'grafted in' to the Jewish 'roots' - but Gentile 'Christians' have been blaming Jews for every ill of mankind including the execution of Jesus since their big inclusion. It's been a 'gentilized,' blue-eyed, blond-haired Jee-zus, not a brown-eyed, dark-haired, Hittite-nosed Heeb named Y'shua ben Miriam that people have imagined, who spoke Aramaic, prayed in Hebrew, kept Kosher, got Bar Mitzvahed, drank wine (not thimbles of Welch's grape juice, 'cause Jews don't tend to become alcoholics) and kept the Jewish holidays that Gentile Christians know zilch about and who don't even realize that the Gospels are all about liturgical writings for the Jewish holiday calendar. Sorry, but life as a Jewish Christian hasn't been a picnic either - especially of late when even more veils of deceit have been lifted from my spiritual eyes. I have a Biblically Hebrew last name. People ask, "Hey, I thought you were Jewish, how come you wear a cross?" I tell them: "I want to become the kind of Jew that Jesus was." They are silenced - especially Jews. People don't know what to think or say. I'm just trying to be honest and give a simple answer. I want nothing to do with modern day Christianity and its concrete and misunderstood use of so-called Scriptures. St. Paul was not writing Scriptures, he was writing letters. The Torah and the Haftarah (Prophets) were his Scriptures. I've said too much already.
Peace.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Frog
Warrior
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Just so you know (working backwards) by the late 60's, the Catholic Church retracted the LIE that the woman "who loved much" was a prostitute. Mary Magdalene was NOT a prostitute. Pope Gregory started that lie by his own interpretation, and it has effected women up to present times - the Magdalane laundresses for example. Atrocities and sexual persecution. The seven devils were never clarified. May well have been a case of Dissociative Disorder (formerly, Multiple Personality Disorder). Mary may well have been the 'consort' of Jesus of Nazareth, sexually or not, perhaps an 'unorthodox' [literally] marriage. She seems to have been painted by DaVinci in place of "the beloved disciple" John, because DaVinci knew that the Church had re-written history and replaced Mary with Peter. Later surfacing of writings (i.e., The Gospel of Mary Magdalene ) which we've had for 150 years) would supply further evidence of the importance of this #1 female disciple in the original Christian story (not the one told by misogynistic, probably homosexual, so-called Church Fathers).
Markos, from where do you get this information? I'd like to read it myself. I pretty much almost have not doubt that I will come to the same conclusion, and I will then of course be forced to readjust my thinking on things, but it would be nice to read the material first-hand.
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I have met very cognitively limited but very kind Down's Syndrome humans. A kind heart is more important to me than a brilliant mind. The light of Intelligence without Compassion is simply Lucifer. Lots of creatures have faculties that are 'superior' to mine whether height, strength, acceptance of fate, grace in dying, loyalty, parenting, non-aggression (though much bigger and stronger than any human). I am not merely my intellect, and I am not completely identified with the power of intellection. Intellect does not even assure a happy human life, and in my experience, actually works against positive social processes. I mean, I don't want friendships that are soley based on the discussion of the philosophy of Hegel (though that would be cool for me), but I have never cared one wit for who won what ballgame. Adolescence was no picnic I'll tell you.
I agree with you on everything written above.
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Yeah, yeah, Gentiles have been 'grafted in' to the Jewish 'roots' - but Gentile 'Christians' have been blaming Jews for every ill of mankind including the execution of Jesus since their big inclusion.
Yes, the bad Christians have been doing this for ulterior motives.
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It's been a 'gentilized,' blue-eyed, blond-haired Jee-zus, not a brown-eyed, dark-haired, Hittite-nosed Heeb named Y'shua ben Miriam that people have imagined, who spoke Aramaic, prayed in Hebrew, kept Kosher, got Bar Mitzvahed, drank wine (not thimbles of Welch's grape juice, 'cause Jews don't tend to become alcoholics) and kept the Jewish holidays that Gentile Christians know zilch about and who don't even realize that the Gospels are all about liturgical writings for the Jewish holiday calendar. Sorry, but life as a Jewish Christian hasn't been a picnic either - especially of late when even more veils of deceit have been lifted from my spiritual eyes. I have a Biblically Hebrew last name. People ask, "Hey, I thought you were Jewish, how come you wear a cross?" I tell them: "I want to become the kind of Jew that Jesus was." They are silenced - especially Jews. People don't know what to think or say. I'm just trying to be honest and give a simple answer. I want nothing to do with modern day Christianity and its concrete and misunderstood use of so-called Scriptures. St. Paul was not writing Scriptures, he was writing letters. The Torah and the Haftarah (Prophets) were his Scriptures. I've said too much already.
Peace.
Thank you, Markos, for sharing so much about yourself. As always, it's nice to read "you" behind your posts. I agree with most of what you wrote, except that it's been the "bad" Christians who have inflicted much of the pain on the Jews. And it's been just plain wrong.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: What price for anal intercourse? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#3125366 - 09/12/04 08:08 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I believe in GOD, not the philosophical musings of mankind, nor the non-linguistic methodologies of so-called Shamanism - a Russian-derived word for a whole host of 'primitive' techniques for the alteration of consciousness. By this point in history, many shamanic traditions have well merged with primarily Catholic components. The Carlos Casteneda books, all of which I read as they were published, was ostensibly about an ancient Toltec tradition in which 'God' was conceived of as an 'Eagle' which consumed (if one were 'worthy') our 'spiritual sparks.' Kind of like the Gnostic or Kabbalistic 'sparks,' and no wonder - Casteneda was a total fraud! He 'borrowed' freely from everyone. The shamanic Bon religion was absorbed into Tibetan Buddhism, which doesn't directly acknowledge the Creator, but knows good and well that Buddhism came from Hinduism which does recognize Brahman and Vishnu. Voudun is very shamanic and well merged with Catholic stuff. Native American traditions (e.g., Wovoka, the Ghost Dance) still retain The Great Spirit - GOD - above all. I'm no expert on Shamanism, but if you haven't read it, the classic text is Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy by Mircea Eliade.
It is pure logic that Creation was Created by a Creator. Now, you might reject the childhood Old-Bearded-Guy-in-the-Sky notion, but 'intelligent design' speaks obviously of the Intelligent Designer. How the two are connected, by Creation or Emanation (two theological notions)' pantheistic or panENtheistic, Transcendence and Immanence - these are theologically sophisticated ideas.
The value or status of Scriptures, regardless of whose, is subjective. That scriptures embody four levels of interpretation: Literal, Allegorical, Symbolic and Mystical is also important to keep foremost in mind, because a good amount of 'spiritual discernment' is required to Know which level speaks most loudly in each word or verse. Biblical myth belongs to the symbolic level, as do all myths which are universal truths set in colorful stories - never intended to be taken as historical fact. Only the simple-minded who are concrete thinkers, literalists, fundamentalists take all verses to be Literal. Clearly, not everyone has the same degree of discernment, nor the same degree of reading comprehension for that matter. "I am the vine, you are the branches." Gee, call me a stick.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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