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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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SETI nonsense
    #3103324 - 09/07/04 03:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Amazing to me how anyone can be into this. We will try once again to break this down by taking small steps.

1. How many possible transmitting frequencies are there?

2. On how many of those frequencies are we listening?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
the cool fool
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Registered: 11/17/02
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Swami]
    #3103333 - 09/07/04 03:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

being a porfessional sceptic isnt fun


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Swami]
    #3103383 - 09/07/04 03:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

3. How much technology have we developed?

4. How much more advanced could some extraterrestrial civilization be?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Swami]
    #3103398 - 09/07/04 03:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

1. Sending radio waves to try and communicate with aliens is like sending smoke signals to NASA for help


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: silversoul7]
    #3103403 - 09/07/04 03:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Answer my questions first. They are simple and empirical with quantifiable answers. No opinion is needed.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Swami]
    #3103432 - 09/07/04 03:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

ok, let's play your game...

ad 1: in fact, quite unlimited.
ad 2: I had to look into my description manual, but of course this narrows down.

right?


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineSource
Remainder of anUnbalancedEquation
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Registered: 07/28/03
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Swami]
    #3103435 - 09/07/04 03:40 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

1. A lot

2. A few


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What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Swami]
    #3103440 - 09/07/04 03:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:

1. How many possible transmitting frequencies are there?




Infinite?

Quote:


2. On how many of those frequencies are we listening?




<.0001%?


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Registered: 08/14/04
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Swami]
    #3103444 - 09/07/04 03:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Seti is run for the admittedly very small chance that we will detect an alien frequency. Small but not non-existent chance. And because it makes people think that they're doing a good thing leaving their computers on (even though all it really does is deplete yet more fossil fuels but i'm not one to talk since my comp is on 24/7...)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3103452 - 09/07/04 03:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

No, it's an even smaller chance because it's operating under the premise that we would find those aliens through certain frequencies, when the aliens may not even use those frequencies!


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Shroomism]
    #3103467 - 09/07/04 03:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Supposedly the odds of life forming on our planet were far less than that so its not impossible and imagine what would happen if it succeeded... life on earth certainly changed earth despite its improbability.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3103474 - 09/07/04 03:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

life is more probable than improbable


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Shroomism]
    #3103495 - 09/07/04 03:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I can't remember the exact odds, but the chances of life forming out of inorganic compounds is supposedly too small to compute. Or at least very tiny. Perhaps someone knows the exact figure that scientists claim?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3103509 - 09/07/04 03:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

There was some scientific formula that's supposed to calculate the probability of it. But the universe is sooooo vast that even if it's one in a google-plex chance, then there's still got to be thousands of planets with life on them.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisiblePapaverS
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Registered: 06/01/02
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Swami]
    #3103613 - 09/07/04 04:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'd say that SETI is a lot like 1,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean -- it's a good start. :wink:

As a species, we're only at the very beginning of such technological endeavors. Our primitive efforts are destined to be crude and misguided, by future standards, but if we don't start somewhere, then we'll never get anywhere. We'll just be "here." Not, that's there anything wrong with being "here," but it just seems to be our nature to try and go over "there."

SETI, like most scientific endeavors, is an attempt explore and learn. It's a journey, and it seems to me that we're only at the very beginning of the journey. There will undoubtedly be false leads, and radical changes in direction, technology, and methodology, and it may never produce any results. Who knows? I certainly don't.

Personally, I do think, that it's a good thing. If nothing else, it will produce improvements in other technological fields, as well as give birth to imaginative spin-offs in our culture and mythology -- keeping things interesting. I think it also represents what is good about the human spirit, our inquisitiveness, and our ability to dream. :laugh:

"Well, [Don Quixote] had a point. 'Course he carried it a bit too far. He thought that every windmill was a giant. That's insane. But, thinking that they might be, well... All the best minds used to think the world was flat. But what if it isn't? It might be round. And bread mold might be medicine. If we never looked at things and thought of what might be, why we'd all still be out there in the tall grass with the apes."

--Justin Playfair (played by George C. Scott) from the film, "They Might Be Giants."


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Papaver]
    #3103652 - 09/07/04 04:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

/whispers a voice from nowhere: ...if you build it.. they will come..


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Shroomism]
    #3103690 - 09/07/04 04:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think you're right Papava :smile: Where would humanity be without dreams?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Swami]
    #3103719 - 09/07/04 04:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Seti upon it's completion will not even amount to a drop in the bucket in the search for extraterrestrial life. With the small amount of radio telescope time they actually get for collecting signals they are extremely unlikely to find anything. Combine that with the speed of light limitation and what it amounts to is that the chances we will find life outside of our solar system in our life times is so unlikely as to be near impossible. The universe could be crawling with ETs everywhere, but if they cannot contact each other because of the speed of light limitation then they may as well not exist. I don't want to hear no conjecture on exceeding the speed of light or wormholes because either option is impossible for travel. 500 years from now we may have explored some of our nearest systems and be on the right track.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3103774 - 09/07/04 04:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

How superior our limited understanding of physics for some people has to be...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
Re: SETI nonsense [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3104834 - 09/07/04 08:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I find it hard to beleive that the speed of light is the absolute limit of speed in our universe.


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