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OfflineDreamer987
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Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta
    #3088748 - 09/03/04 08:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

check it out

this is some spooky stuff, anyone have any thoughts on the matter?


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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: Dreamer987]
    #3088793 - 09/03/04 08:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

and what again was the official response, as to why top members of bin-ladens family, and saudi royals were the first people to be secretly flown back to safety after this happened?


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: Dreamer987]
    #3088852 - 09/03/04 08:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

This is the second time it's been posted here and it's already been disproven. Try going to www.snopes.com and search for Pentagon, then read away.

The sheer fact this flash file has made it's way onto embaumsworld should be proof enough that it's not valid.


Edited by DigitalDuality (09/03/04 08:55 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3088874 - 09/03/04 08:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I must've missed the parts on Snopes where it's been disproven...?


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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3088896 - 09/03/04 09:03 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I read what you were talking about here: ...
but the flash video, with the music was more convincing
seriously that little rundown by "snopes" isn't a very strong case. Where was the plane wreckage? Was it a magical plane that didn't leave any wreckage behind?
bullshit, i think the government was behind the whole thing.


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Anonymous

Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: ]
    #3088908 - 09/03/04 09:05 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Correction, I must've missed the part where anyone at all disproved it.

That snopes rebuttal is a joke. I actually laughed out loud reading it.


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3088957 - 09/03/04 09:16 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DigitalDuality said:
This is the second time it's been posted here and it's already been disproven. Try going to www.snopes.com and search for Pentagon, then read away.

The sheer fact this flash file has made it's way onto embaumsworld should be proof enough that it's not valid.




Just out of curiosity do you have anything that might "disprove" any of this?

http://www.amics21.com/911/flight175/
http://911inplanesite.com/
http://thepowerhour.com/911_analysis/report.htm
http://infowars.com/resources.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2004/250804moreproof.htm


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: ekomstop]
    #3090181 - 09/04/04 03:38 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

sorry guys, the governments and its agents were very largely responsible for 9/11. Please for all our sakes, get over your naive beliefs that the government would hesitate for even a second about sacraficing the lives of its own civilians for economic or political gain, even thousands of lives.

From the point of view of those in power, something like 9/11 is no different from sending thousands of kids of to war, all human life is expendable and they will use the lives of their citizens in the most efficient way they see fit.

The 9/11 attack filled a criteria for a plan layed out years ago in which high ranking political and military officials decided that the U.S. in order to maintain global supremacy, must increase their presence in the middle east and especially iraq, and increase control over the oil fields. They also said, in the same report, that to sell such an operation to the american public we would need 'a new pearl harbour' and 9/11 did just fine.

Plane flies into towers, piloted by Saudi's. Americans escort Saudi buddies out of country without hassle. George Bush shouts 'vengeance!' america goes to war with IRAQ and continues its love affair with saudi arabia, we get their oil, we secure our presence, and it all ends happily ever after.

American public remains totally clueless


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: Dreamer987]
    #3090494 - 09/04/04 09:08 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Dude, that's pretty fucked up right there.

I don't understand something. I buy that the government would allow/cause 9-11. But why would they take flight 175 and hide it somewhere and then shoot a missle or small plane into the Pentagon and then act like 175 was what hit it?

Why not just fly 175 into the Pentagon???  :confused:







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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: Learyfan]
    #3091748 - 09/04/04 05:06 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Dude, that's pretty fucked up right there.

I don't understand something. I buy that the government would allow/cause 9-11. But why would they take flight 175 and hide it somewhere and then shoot a missle or small plane into the Pentagon and then act like 175 was what hit it?

Why not just fly 175 into the Pentagon???  :confused:





I might end up getting ripped appart for this, but here goes anyway

I think "175" was supposed to have hit the south tower. If this is the case then why did many people including a FOX news employee report that the plane had no windows?  Also what is this attached to the bottom if it?  http://www.amics21.com/911/flight175/

and "77"? was supposed to have hit the pentagon..of course there are alot of questions surrounding that claim

I forget which plane they said hit the first tower, but again eye whitnesses have reported that what they saw did not look like an american airliner.

Also, flight 93 which was reported to have crashed (I forget where..) was actually reported to have landed at an airport in cleveland.  http://911inplanesite.com/bomb_threat.html

:shrug:


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: Dreamer987]
    #3092029 - 09/04/04 06:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)



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Anonymous

Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: Revelation]
    #3092043 - 09/04/04 06:31 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Those must be some strong windows just above the impact area! Bullet-proof glass for sure.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3092069 - 09/04/04 06:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)


They also said, in the same report, that to sell such an operation to
the american public we would need 'a new pearl harbour' and 9/11 did
just fine.

I read that report where it supposedly said that a "new pearl harbour"
was needed to advance certain policies. It did not say that at all.
Find the text of the report and read that area and you will see that
it in no way advocates, hints at, or acknowledges the need for a new
pearl harbour. The Left has seized upon that one sentence and come
up with all kinds of conspiracy theories. It is a quote which was
taken out of context and exaggerated.


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OfflineAldous
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Rumsfeld's opinion [Re: Dreamer987]
    #3092441 - 09/04/04 08:49 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I've been following this topic since it was run by a French journalist some years ago. I've researched it quite a bit, and although some questions remains, the missile hypothesis remains the most convincing.

The funny thing is, you just have to believe Rumsfeld on this one. In an interview about a month after the attacks, he lost it for a second and during an interview he gave at the Pentagon, he said a missile had hit the building.
Quote:

Rummy: "It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center."



The transcript of the text used to be here, and I've seen it there for myself: http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Nov2001/t11182001_t1012pm.html]

Strangely though, it's been removed and the link is broken. But some people saved the transcript, and you can see it here.

Now, do you believe Rumsfeld, or don't you?


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Offlinejimsuzo
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: Learyfan]
    #3093641 - 09/05/04 02:06 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

After having reviewed the movie and several of the photos, I'm of the opinion that the damage to the Pentagon was not caused by a large commericial airliner (757?). I also have little difficuly in believing that our government could have pulled this whole thing off, but I'd like to think otherwise.

A question along the same lines as yours (i.e. Why not just fly 175 into the Pentagon???) - Why wouldn't the feds simply admit that a missile hit the Pentagon instead of trying to cover it up?

Furthermore, rather than some type of a cover-up, is this perhaps a case of the crash scene investigators having no fucking clue as to what really happened and simply assuming that a plane did the damage?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: jimsuzo]
    #3093661 - 09/05/04 02:15 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Where is that airplane today? The 757 that was designated Flight 175? Was it beamed up to the mothership?

Where are the crew and the passengers from Flight 175? Also beamed up to the mothership?

Why on earth would the hijackers hijack four airplanes, then use just three of them as missiles while somehow (how?) spiriting the fourth one to -- where?

pinky


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: jimsuzo]
    #3093669 - 09/05/04 02:19 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jimsuzo said:Why wouldn't the feds simply admit that a missile hit the Pentagon instead of trying to cover it up?




probably because it doesn't coincide very well with a report implying a terrorist hi-jacking.


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Offlinejimsuzo
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: Phred]
    #3093700 - 09/05/04 02:35 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Where is that airplane today? The 757 that was designated Flight 175? Was it beamed up to the mothership?

Where are the crew and the passengers from Flight 175? Also beamed up to the mothership?

Why on earth would the hijackers hijack four airplanes, then use just three of them as missiles while somehow (how?) spiriting the fourth one to -- where?




All good questions. I certainly don't have answers. It seems that this 'conspiracy' is lacking logic. With the exception of the photos of the damage to the building and surroundings, most everything else is consistent with the idea that a large plane indeed hit the building. Perhaps the photos are simply misleading, and now a bunch of people (none of whom are qualified investigators) are formulating far-fetched theories based on their limited and untrained observations of the scene.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: Phred]
    #3093767 - 09/05/04 03:05 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Sounds like an X-file.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Re: Pentagon 9/11 conspiracy fiesta [Re: Dreamer987]
    #3093834 - 09/05/04 03:40 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

9/11 Commision Report We Have Some Planes"

Buildings, made of concrete and steel, do indeed eat planes, which are made of alluminum. Further, alluminum not only melts easily, it also burns at a very high temperature, which tends to make planes involved in catastrophic collisions (despite the bogus claims of the video) more or less disappear. That a large airliner crashed into the pentagon is the overwhelmingly likely possibility.

For those of you too lazy to check: In 1994, a Boeing 747 crashed into an appartment building in the Netherlands. A 747 is a truly massive plane, almost twice the size of a 757, and it left almost no discernable debris.

here are some other plane crash sites. Note the lack of large debris. It's mostly, well, a large scorch mark.


This is from the Concorde Crash a 3 years ago.

]http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w010704.jpg[/img]
This is from a russian airline crash 2 years ago.

]http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w941031.jpg[/img]
A crash in Indiana in 1994


Note the similarities to this photo, taken in Pennsylvania after 9/11



Holland in 1994. Note the total lack of a plane. Can you spot the Boeing?


note the similarities between the picture from holland and this one from the pentagon.

Also note that the building in Holland was hit by a 747

Wing Span 211 ft
Overall Length 231 ft
Tail Height 63 ft
Cabin Width 20 ft.

Compare to the 757 that hit the pentagon

Wing Span 124 ft
Overall Length178 ft
Tail Height 44 ft
Cabin width 11 ft 7 in.


Tell me this has satisfied at least someone's misgivings about the event?

If not, IMHO, your willingness to believe that the US Government is a wholly evil entity trumps your hold on reality.

Properly oxidized, alluminum (the chief material in most modern airiliners, including boeing's 7x7 series) burns at 3000 degrees celsius. Besides, extreme damage was done to the structure of the building by the impact - which was more than enough to destroy the sprinkler system on the impacted floors.

Large Picture so I won?t post it here.. but here?s the link
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/13.jpg
Picture 13 shows more of the debris field, including a twisted piece of the American Airliner in front of the helo pad.

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/pentagon_20020316.html

explanation of why something is found a lil ways from the site and not charred black?

hrmm....maybe in the explosion the piece is *blown* there from force of blast....that is certinly verry reasonable...we all seen video of the blast...looks verry reasonable to me that somethig could end up some distance from the point of impact but it aslso leaves room for you nutjobs to whine about conspiracey theory

why not check this out?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ppfinal.html
plenty of REAL pictures for you skeptics

Two more larger pictures
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/PENTPLANE/landinggear002.jpg
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/PENTPLANE/aedrive6.jpg
There's your airplane wreckage

Quote:

My gentle friends:
Here's what happened: I am tired of debunking the French article but I always feel compelled. I wondered when it would come up here.

OK. I don't know who the stupid people are that put that web page together but they are wrong. I guess you nice "snopesters" should know that I was there and escaped through the fire and wreckage. I personally know people who saw the actual impact. I saw many airplane parts. I smelled and saw burning jet fuel. I lost 19 close friends. The building still smells awful. The aircraft destroyed or damaged something like 2,000,000 square feet of office space.

More facts:
The plane hit the building at an angle after bouncing on the ground, not perpendicular to the wall but at an angle to the left. If it had not, the engineers guess that it would have ripped clean through the building into the courtyard. Thousands would have perished (24,000+ work here each day). The estimated speed at impact was around 550-600 mph fully fueled.

Where did the wings go?
The wings folded back as the fuselage burrowed deep within the building.

As the kinetic energy built up against the resistance of the walls, columns, etc. being plowed down, the back end of the aircraft drifted left and began to collapse towards the cockpit. Now the "ball" of steel, fire, fuel, and people are in the "C" ring (the third ring in from the helipad) and the bow wave of kinetic energy blew a 25ft wide and high hole through a reinforced concrete wall. At this point, they were DIRECTLY one floor beneath me and my office floor was buckling, and everything was on fire and me and my people were hauling ass, looking for an escape. My friends one floor below never had a chance and you can go visit them at many cemeteries in the area as well as at Arlington National Cemetery. We buried them all last September and October (2001). Several of the burned are only just beginning to recover.

The Old Girl (the Pentagon building) "swallowed" the 757. She burned for almost a week. There are 5 Pentagon employees that can't even be identified by DNA and 2 who were seen at the impact zone even traces of them were never found. (The remains were interred together sometime in 2003)

Some other information I forgot to post. After coming over the hill where Arlington Cemetery is, the plane was so close to the ground that it took out a couple of streetlights that line the highway.

More Info:
The "black boxes" which are in the tail of 757s were found in the debris with cockpit pieces (remember how crunched up in little pieces the plane was).

IMHO:
Also brought up in these discussions is the surveillance tape published in March 2002. It is my opinion that the 1/400 tape was taken from a Defense Security Service police car. I can't find any guard post that the film would have come from. Additionally, and this is not conspiracy theory, I'll bet there is an entire security film or films showing the whole thing. They claim that the cameras were down, but DoD takes building security VERY seriously, so I find that hard to believe. I think we will see it in a few years. I can't imagine them showing it any sooner if there is some film.
http://www.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=60;t=000680;p=1




Edited by DigitalDuality (09/05/04 03:43 AM)


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