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OfflineSource
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Democracy Is A Farce
    #3087195 - 09/03/04 01:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

At this point in my understanding of the world it seems to me that those who are really in power are the bankers, corporations, the military-industrial complex and the ultra-rich that run them.

All this blather about the left vs. right is just a soap opera designed to keep the American people and the world blinded from the fact that they have no power over the REAL issues that face mankind today. Democracy is dead. The temple of American domocracy is now a 'den of thieves'.

Oh, sure, we get a few token issues to argue over and vote on like abortion or gay marriage. Meanwhile we're choking on our polluted air, drinking water tainted with gasoline additives and prozac and eating rocket fuel laced-genetically modified lettuce. Millions die in senseless wars and the lion's share of our wealth and science goes toward creating ever novel ways of killing more efficiently.

What incentives do the leaders have to make peace when they make so much money from war? What incentive do they have to find cures when they make so much money treating symptoms and creating NEW disseases?

Do you realy think that those who are in power and have so much to lose are going to let you run things?

But, hey nevermind. Go back to the show. Call me a wako conspiracy theorist like you've been trained to do. Better yet, go vote for Kerry or Bush.

Sleeeep Sleeeep


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Source]
    #3087204 - 09/03/04 01:48 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

the only vote that matters in America is how you spend your money

I vote for coca-cola and McDonald's everday :wink:


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Source]
    #3087233 - 09/03/04 01:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'll call you a wacko conspiracy theorist because you are. Creating new diseases? I know quite a few cancer scientists, including my dad. They'd have to somehow let all these people in on the secret without it leaking out.

Of course the ultra rich do have more power, but it's not like there's some secret coven of powerful bankers who get together on thursdays to plan out new wars and diseases. They just do what they can to make money, and as a result, it causes governments to help them because that fuels the economy.

If you have the patience to study politics and economics, it's pretty logical stuff, of course, it doesn't make for quite as zany of a story, but real life isn't like the movies as you seem to think it is.

Espionage, underhanded tactics, and sleazeballs are all real, but there's absolutely no evidence to support ideas like the kind you're touting.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Source]
    #3087319 - 09/03/04 02:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

shouldnt have mentioned the part about creating new diseases.... remember your audience man!
anyway, bravo to you for catching a glimmer of truth in the darkness.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Phluck]
    #3087335 - 09/03/04 02:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Okay, fair enough.

But again...what incentive do they have to cure diseases when they profit so much from selling the drugs that treat symptoms?

And again, what incentive is there for peace when they profit from war?

I'm just using common sense here.

I'm not sure if the 'secret coven' is planning new diseases (However, there can be no doubt that the toxic sludge being dumped into our water, earth and air are creating new diseases). but I think it is very likely that they get together to discuss how to profit from war.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Clean]
    #3087343 - 09/03/04 02:18 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Ha ha...yeah you're probably right about that.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Clean]
    #3087513 - 09/03/04 03:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"shouldnt have mentioned the part about creating new diseases.... remember your audience man!"

What, an audience that demands evidence to back up wacky claims?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Phluck]
    #3087530 - 09/03/04 03:06 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:

Of course the ultra rich do have more power, but it's not like there's some secret coven of powerful bankers who get together on thursdays to plan out new wars and diseases.




Skull and Bones
Bilderburg Group
Trilateral Commission
Council on Foreign Relations

I could go on if you wish..


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Source]
    #3087538 - 09/03/04 03:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"But again...what incentive do they have to cure diseases when they profit so much from selling the drugs that treat symptoms?"

How about not dying? If your company came up with a cure for AIDS, or a vaccination against HIV, and you sold it at a high price, you'd be racking in billions.

"And again, what incentive is there for peace when they profit from war?"

Again, not dying in a nuclear holocaust is a plus. You can only profit from war for so long. War does not create resources. The threat of war can be milked a bit more effectively than war itself.

"However, there can be no doubt that the toxic sludge being dumped into our water, earth and air are creating new diseases"

You're obviously not a biology major. Name one new disease caused by environmental toxins.

"but I think it is very likely that they get together to discuss how to profit from war."

It's ridiculous to think that all companies work together. There are competitors, corporations work to tear down other companies so they can take over their market.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineSource
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Phluck]
    #3087867 - 09/03/04 04:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"If your company came up with a cure for AIDS, or a vaccination against HIV, and you sold it at a high price, you'd be racking in billions."


I think you may be hard pressed to prove that pharmacy/health corporations could make more money finding cures than selling drugs that treat symptoms. Over the long run it seems to me they would make much more money treating the symptoms.

"Again, not dying in a nuclear holocaust is a plus. You can only profit from war for so long. War does not create resources. The threat of war can be milked a bit more effectively than war itself."


As far as war goes. Actual war would seem to make much more proffit then just the threat. Just look at how Haliburton is making out ripping us off. War may not create resources (what does?) but it certainly puts some people in control of those resources doesn't it? Richard Perle held a seminar on how to proffit from the (then) looming wars with Iraq and North Korea! I don't know if they would want anything to go nuclear just yet.

"You're obviously not a biology major. Name one new disease caused by environmental toxins."

PFC's (Teflon, Scothguard, etc) -

Never drgrades in the environment,

Found in the blood of 90% of US population,

Found to harm lab animals in levels lower than that currently found in children,

Linked to abnormal organ weight, cancer (breast, testicular, and prostate), hypothyroidism, damaged immune system (thymus and spleen damage), birth defects, decreased testosterone...

Multi-billion dollar industry

"It's ridiculous to think that all companies work together. There are competitors, corporations work to tear down other companies so they can take over their market."

Where was the competition when Cheney's old Hallibuton won it's NO BID multi-billion dollar Iraq contract?


--------------------
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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Source]
    #3087886 - 09/03/04 04:38 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I think you may be hard pressed to prove that pharmacy/health corporations could make more money finding cures than selling drugs that treat symptoms. Over the long run it seems to me they would make much more money treating the symptoms.




That's exactly why research for AIDS vacines is at a virual standstill. They're making a killing off the protease inhibitors that just treat the symptoms.

It's not so much case of deliberate evil where they're trying to kill off people,it's just that there's no money in the alternative.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Source]
    #3087930 - 09/03/04 04:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"Linked to abnormal organ weight, cancer (breast, testicular, and prostate), hypothyroidism, damaged immune system (thymus and spleen damage), birth defects, decreased testosterone..."

No new diseases here... despite these things, the average human life span just keeps on increasing.

Toxic effects are not the same thing as a disease.

Another point, a cure for cancer would send us into a massive overpopulation disaster.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineSource
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Phluck]
    #3088014 - 09/03/04 05:18 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I seriously doubt that there is any disease that has not occured at least once in history so I concede that it will be difficult for me to claim anything 'new'. Yet there can be no doubt that the rates of these deiseases are climbing fast because of environmental toxins (i.e. dementia, cancer, etc.)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jht.../13/ixhome.html

So, are you arguing that the toxins in the environmen are NOT creating many, many more (if not new) health problems?

What do you mean 'Toxic effects are not the same thing as disease'? Is not a carcinogen considered toxic (i.e. asbestos)? Do carcinogens not cause the disease 'cancer'?


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


Edited by Source (09/03/04 05:21 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Source]
    #3088020 - 09/03/04 05:22 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

They're creating some new health problems, but not to the extent that human health as a whole is suffering drastically. In western countries, lack of excercise and poor nutrition is a much greater threat than toxins.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineSource
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Phluck]
    #3088042 - 09/03/04 05:29 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

You yourself said that if there were a cure for cancer we would have a population crisis on our hands. Doesn't that imply that MANY people are suffering from cancer? Don't you consider this suffering 'drastic'? Are not the majority of cancer cases caused by environmental carcinogens?


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


Edited by Source (09/03/04 05:30 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Source]
    #3088522 - 09/03/04 07:43 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"Doesn't that imply that MANY people are suffering from cancer?"

Yes, it's an extremely common disease, always has been, always will be.

"Don't you consider this suffering 'drastic'?"

It's a pretty common way to die, but it's no drastic change from the past. Like I said, it always has been an extremely common way to die. Cancer is caused by exactly the same thing that causes evolution, random mutations. Most mutations cause people to die, a few rare ones help people out, and that's how evolution works.

"Are not the majority of cancer cases caused by environmental carcinogens?"

If by "environmental carcinogens", you mean manmade carcinogens that we've introduced into the environment, I'd have to ask where the heck you got your statistics from.

Considering the fact that it's impossible to pinpoint the exact cause of a cancer, and that carcinogens only increase the probability of cancerous growth, then I'd say that it's not only impossible to research that question, but ludicrous to claim you know the answer.

The number of cancer deaths has increased over time, but it's important to remember that in the 19th and early 20th century, cancer was rarely diagnosed as cancer, so comparing statistics between now and then is pointless. Keep in mind again, that the average life span for humans is now INCREASING, not decreasing. So despite some negative health effects from various toxins, they don't seem to be affecting us to the point where we're experiencing all kinds of new health problems.

Nowadays, as well, we do tons more research on the subject, and we talk about it a lot more. In ancient Rome, the plumbing was made of lead. We used to make top hats using mercury. With a little research you can find tons more examples of extremely toxic things being used in everyday life, and nobody thought anything of it until modern times when we discovered how dangerous these things were.

I'm not saying we don't need to be cautious about what we put into the water and air, because we do. The government and many large corporations do ignore warnings in the name of profit, and they do often do things that endanger our health. The truth of the matter is, the average person is not at serious risk of health problems as a result.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Shroomism]
    #3089674 - 09/04/04 01:02 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:

Phluck said:

Of course the ultra rich do have more power, but it's not like there's some secret coven of powerful bankers who get together on thursdays to plan out new wars and diseases.




Skull and Bones
Bilderburg Group
Trilateral Commission
Council on Foreign Relations

I could go on if you wish..




ty shroom, only one thing u missed.

www.google.com

btw the skull and bones group is from Yale university, in case anyone cant find it.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Source]
    #3090608 - 09/04/04 10:41 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Source writes:

I think you may be hard pressed to prove that pharmacy/health corporations could make more money finding cures than selling drugs that treat symptoms. Over the long run it seems to me they would make much more money treating the symptoms.

Uh huh. That's why they developed vaccines for flu, smallpox. measles, diptheria, polio, mumps, typhus, etc. That's why peptic ulcers are pretty much a thing of the past now, despite the gazillion dollars that used to be made by selling antacids and gastric-acid reduction drugs.

Just look at how Haliburton is making out ripping us off.

Uh huh. Newsflash -- if you had bought Halliburton stock in 2000, you'd have lost roughly thirty per cent of your investment by cashing out yesterday. Halliburton is not reaping huge profits from their work in Iraq. As a matter of fact, they've lost money for seven straight quarters now. This is easily verifiable -- their financial reports are a matter of public record. Odd how no Lefties ever bother to do so.

Where was the competition when Cheney's old Hallibuton won it's NO BID multi-billion dollar Iraq contract?

This has been covered here before, and it has even (very very occasionally) been mentioned as a tiny single sentence buried in the second last paragraph of a thirty paragraph report in a mainstream media report, but for those who missed it, here we go again --

In 1998 (or maybe 1997) a new procedure was put in place for military contractors. I forget the exact acronym they use, but in essence bidding is done by contractors, and the one who wins the bid receives a standing offer for the next four years. Halliburton won the bid in 2000. No foul. You will note that in 1998 it was Bill Clinton who was US prez, not Bush. Gore was the VP, not Cheney.

pinky


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Source]
    #3094961 - 09/05/04 02:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

System where people actually do not show interest in politics, where people actually feel powerless, that system can not be democracy, whatever it claimed for itself it is.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Democracy Is A Farce [Re: Phred]
    #3099261 - 09/06/04 03:51 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

They are selling and profiting from vaccines.

They are not making money off of acid reducing drugs anymore? What about all those commercials for 'the little purple pill'?

You aren't really giving me enough information to check on what you said about the new military bidding proceedures. So, it's just coincidence that of all the companies in the world the V.P. just happened to be x-CEO of the one that probably proffited the most from the war?

Anyway, back to my point.

Again I ask you all: Do you really think these people are going to let YOU decide how they are going to run the world?

We get to choose on TOKEN issues only.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


Edited by Source (09/06/04 04:16 PM)


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