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 MarkostheGnostic
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 Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality?  [Re: silversoul7]
#3049796 - 08/25/04 06:09 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I agree with Max Headroom in that hate is rooted in fear. The word 'love' in a spiritual sense is better described as the Greek 'agape' (altruistic, selfless) or the Indian 'karuna' (compassion), or the Herbrew 'chesed' (loving-kindness) because the word 'love' is often used synonymously with desire ('I love her body,' I love chocolate,' 'I love Dodge Vipers,' etc.). These are common or 'profane' references to objects of desire, or as the Buddhists say, attachment. Compassion is detachment insofar as one must be detached from one's own attachments and aversions to be truly compassionate or altruistic. One does not act with a thought of reward for acts of compassion. Being compassionate is its own reward - that one is centered in and acting from that motivation, which transcends the ego's biases.
Conversely, hate is an aversive attachment, a passionately aversive attachment which the psychological insight of Vajrayana Buddhism (Abhidhamma) connects with certain Hell Realms. Not very different from Hindu and Christian theologies which make hate the abode of evil, or evil personified as the devil. Metaphysics aside, the Jungian 'Shadow' which usually is comprised of those attitudes which we reject and repress from our conscious attitude, is sufficiently evil in itself. We need not even insist that it derive from Hell itself. It creates its own hells on Earth.
Whereas love is creative and transforming, hate desires only to destroy utterly, strike from existence, undo. Hate should be contrasted with anger, which does have a place in normal human psychological functioning - a more intense 'energy output' so-to-speak from one's Manipura Chakra. It can be 'righteous' in nature as illustrated by the stories of the Hebrew prophets, or by our own righteous indignation at the ass****s in life, and therefore anger does have a place in spiritual life.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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 spudamore
Stranger
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
#3050290 - 08/25/04 08:05 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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i think it does, or how else can we learn and expand our soul without learning and experiencing negativity????
i beleive thats the souls purpose is to learn experience and live in a nevagtive realm
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kadakuda
The Great"Green".......East
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
#3050736 - 08/25/04 09:32 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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i hate to hate. i hate not to love. it can be aplied in a non violent type setting. the word, i believe, has no negative. its the meaning us humans put behind it. in most cases it is used as something that is not enjoyable. there is nothign wrong with disliking sothing i just see hate as a string dislike.
i hate killing, i hate pain, i hate suffereing, i hate greed etc...
but when you say it as i ahte chinx, i hate niggers, i hate jews etc it becomes a very powerfull and disturbing word. all in the meaning of teh thing that uses it.
my 2 cents.
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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.
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DoctorJ
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
#3050930 - 08/25/04 10:25 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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an side note of interest:
in the hindu religion, they have three main gods: Brahma, the Creator, Vishnu, the Preserver, and finally, the god most pertinent to this discussion: Shiva, the Destroyer.
Shiva is not seen as a lesser God, or an evil God. He is not looked down upon, like Satan. His existence is considered purposeful and necessary.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: DoctorJ]
#3051701 - 08/26/04 01:27 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ah yes. During my first level 5 trip, I felt the presence of Shiva within me, which is interesting, since that night I tore down posters from my wall and broke my blacklight, so I was "the destroyer" in a very real sense.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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sillysimon
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
#3051743 - 08/26/04 01:45 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Make an internal commitment to respect yourself and feel worthy of all that the universe has to offer. If you disrespect anyone or anything that this universe creates, you disrespect that creative force and tarnish your connection to the power of that intention.
a persons way of reasoning with reality and other people in it, may not always be a disrespectful thing, it is just a fact...
that some people can't deal with...so they veiw it as hate(because most of the time it is) but to make an assumption after getting to know someone that they are "sheep" and you dislike them for the ignorance they obtain inside of them i guess could be "rascism" but i think it is just NATURE..we have to make opinions of a degree of what some would call "hate" to substain our qualifications that we veiw a human being should be capable of..
now for like hate on physical apperences.(race, dress,etc.) i think that is totally useless and stupid...but i think sometimes a judgement has to be made against some people..not like i am going to all those people i dislike and force them to "OBEY"
but i simply voice my opinion on how the world is roamed by mostly "sheep"
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In the dawn my toes are cold They spread their little trinkets on the ground In the hall By the closet door They creep into my bed without sound On a cube In a plastic egg A hundred fabric figures in a pile See them march Toward me And dance across the floor trippily Little faces keep no track of time Little faces speaking out in rhyme Little faces smiling in my mind Tiny doors For walking through sticky fingers clutch forbidden things the phone For talking through Sinking ships On a foamy sea That tumbles from the motion of filthy Little hands In the dark When eyes are wide listen to secrets that I tell In a ball On tiny beds Or beneath them where the shadow people dwell moon Beams split the night Leave bars of yellow pasted on their faces As they drift into a dream
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,170
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]  1
#3052021 - 08/26/04 03:40 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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it has been said, hate is one of 3 roots:
hatred - greed - delusion
bits of personality expressed from these roots always makes bad karma.
we try to develop personality and habits instead with
loving kindness - generosity - clarity
that is the way to establish good karma.
the place hate has in spirituality is number one bad root.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#3052237 - 08/26/04 06:28 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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'I love her body,' I love chocolate,' 'I love Dodge Vipers,'
Hey, me too! I poor chocolate over her body while in my Viper (plastic over the seats - naturally).
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The proof is in the pudding.
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
#3052733 - 08/26/04 09:58 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
silversoul7 said:
Ah yes. During my first level 5 trip, I felt the presence of Shiva within me, which is interesting, since that night I tore down posters from my wall and broke my blacklight, so I was "the destroyer" in a very real sense.
For I am become Shiva
destroyer of worlds
devourer of souls
tearer down of blacklight posters 
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
#3053256 - 08/26/04 12:00 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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And I tell you, only those, who experienced immense love, could experience the proportional amount of hate, if that love will leave unreasonably.
And I think, that is true for unconditional love, too.
Perhaps lost conditional love produces more unconditional hate and lost unconditional love more conditional hate ?
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tnecseda
birther to none
Registered: 06/01/04
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#3053706 - 08/26/04 01:44 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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i don't think you can go backwards from unconditional love unless you choose to.how oculd there be unconditional hate?thats like saying i don't except anything in the entire universe,its a contridictioin of the statment.you wouldn't accept your own idea of unconditional hatemaking it invalid.and if any choice you make,would be one you hate,you would be miserable and create more hate for yourself and everything.why does that seem impossible?i never thought of that.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: tnecseda]
#3054202 - 08/26/04 03:54 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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yes, sorry tnecs, I did some name and meaning flip, by reading too fast. It seemed to fit exactly how I thought of it, with other conclusion
It got late here, but I will try to explain what I meant.
Hmmm...Let's talk about the other sex.
First case: You love him/her unconditional. That means, you love him/her because of his/her own. You lover him/her because for his/her own 'goodness' to herhimself/life/world/everything and try to let out any connection to yourself and your needs/mankos/desires/emotions(?)/effords/life(?) , right ? If now, something merely reasonable takes herhim away (perhaps herhim by herhis own), I think you focus more on the condition, the reason, the cause, the finepart of what it was, that took away, objectively. Which makes this love a loss, a 'not-work'. On this you can focus your aversion and reasonability. A conditioned aversion, to its extend, conditioned hate.
The other case works vice versa, I think: You love himher conditional, that means, you relay much of your emotions and your selfesteem, on how shehe is how you think heshe should be. It directly inflicts your ego if heshe is how you think. If that love 'fails' for some reason, your ego is so much hurt, that your aversions gets 'blind' and doesn't see the real cause and the context of that loss. Your hate gets unconditional because it gets no point to grab, no real reason. It will extend from himher, over other imagined 'influences' to finally yourself.
Just a theory, of course. Thats why the 'perhaps' and 'I think'.
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Northernsoul
Your Reality
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
#3083787 - 09/02/04 04:45 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you apply dualism to hate by saying it's bad, that means that it must be good good also.
So just dont have any opinion about it, and I think that will cause alot less hate.
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