Home | Community | Message Board


High Mountain Compost
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: Scales

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
The most thoughtful gun-control position I've seen yet...
    #3078371 - 09/01/04 04:45 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Excerpted from http://www.lp.org/issues/gun-rights.html
Quote:


Why Libertarians Support
Equal Rights for America's Gun Owners


Libertarians, like other Americans, want to be able to walk city streets safely and be secure in their homes. We also want our Constitutional rights protected, to guard against the erosion of our civil liberties. In particular, Libertarians want to see all people treated equally under the law, as our Constitution requires. America's millions of gun owners are people too.

Law-abiding, responsible citizens do not and should not need to ask anyone's permission or approval to engage in a peaceful activity. Gun ownership, by itself, harms no other person and cannot morally justify criminal penalties.

Constitutional Rights
America's founders fought the Revolutionary War to throw off British tyranny. Most of the revolutionaries owned and used their own guns in that war. After the war, in 1789, the 13 American States adopted the Constitution, creating the federal government. Before ratifying the Constitution, the people demanded a Bill of Rights to prevent our government from depriving them of their liberties as the British had done.

One of the most important protections we have against government tyranny is that we are presumed innocent of any crime until proven guilty, before a jury, in a proper trial.

But, gun control advocates would declare all gun owners guilty without trial, simply for owning guns. although millions of them have never used their guns to harm another person. Such blanket condemnation is immoral, unfair and contrary to the principles on which America was founded.

The Prohibition Lesson
Gun control advocates are much like the prohibitionists of the early 20th Century. By making liquor illegal, they spawned organized crime, caused bloody, violent turf wars and corrupted the criminal justice system. Today's war on drugs has exactly the same results.

Prohibition didn't stop liquor use; the drug laws can't stop drug use. Making gun ownership illegal will not stop gun ownership.

The primary victim of these misguided efforts is the honest citizen whose civil rights are trampled as frustrated legislators and police tighten the screws.

Banning guns will make guns more expensive and give organized crime a great opportunity to make profits in a new black market for weapons. Street violence will increase in new turf wars. Criminals will not give up their guns. But, many law abiding citizens will, leaving them defenseless against armed bandits.

The Right of Self Defense
Libertarians agree with the majority of Americans who believe they have the right to decide how best to protect themselves, their families and their property. Millions of Americans have guns in their homes and sleep more comfortably because of it. Studies show that where gun ownership is illegal, residential burglaries are higher. A man with a gun in his home is no threat to you if you aren't breaking into it.

The police do not provide security in your home, your business or the street. They show up after the crime to take reports and do detective work. The poorer the neighborhood, the riskier it is for peaceful residents.

Only an armed citizenry can be present in sufficient numbers to prevent or deter violent crime before it starts, or to reduce its spread. Interviews with convicted felons indicate that fear of the armed citizen significantly deters crime. A criminal is more likely to be driven off from a particular crime by an armed victim than to be convicted and imprisoned for it. Thus, widespread gun ownership will make neighborhoods safer.

Foolish politicians and police now seek to ban semi-automatic "assault rifles". They ignore the fact that only honest citizens will comply; criminals will still have them. Such a ban will only increase the criminals' ability to victimize the innocent.

Personal Responsibility
Guns are not the problem. They are inanimate objects. Gun control advocates talk as if guns could act on their own, as if human beings cannot control them, so the uncontrollable guns must be banished.

Let us put the responsibility where it belongs, on the owner and user of the gun. If he or she acts responsibly, without attacking others or causing injury negligently, no crime or harm has been done. Leave them in peace. But, if a person commits a crime with a gun, then impose the severest penalties for the injuries done to the victim. Similarly, hold the negligent gun user fully liable for all harm his negligence does to others.

Rather than banning guns, the politicians and the police should encourage gun ownership, as well as education and training programs. A responsible, well-armed and trained citizenry is the best protection against domestic crime and the threat of foreign invasion. America's founders knew that. It is still true today.





That is totally how I feel. This is why I'm voting for libertarians. I not only agree with a few policy decisions of theirs, I totally agree with their basic fundamental philosophical interpretation of the Constitution. How can you be against Libertarianism?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: The most thoughtful gun-control position I've seen yet.. [Re: retread]
    #3078395 - 09/01/04 04:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

you're against libertarianism the moment you start to believe
that the government owes you something other than the basic
protection of your rights.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineunbeliever
Yo Daddy!
 User Gallery
Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: The most thoughtful gun-control position I've seen yet.. [Re: afoaf]
    #3078414 - 09/01/04 05:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
you're against libertarianism the moment you start to believe
that the government owes you something other than the basic
protection of your rights.




Depending on your own definition of what rights are due to you however, would dictate the level at which the government needs to be involved. I for instance believe that in this day and age we should all have access to basic healthcare. No corporation or organization would or even could step up and offer that on a national scale. Another point I disagree with in regards to libertarianism (and this is often shared by republicans as well) is the whole "pull yourself up by the boot straps" mentality. The literal translation of the phrase sort of points out the inheirant fallacy and illogic of the metaphor.

Just my 2 cents.


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: The most thoughtful gun-control position I've seen yet.. [Re: unbeliever]
    #3078480 - 09/01/04 05:24 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Off to the tiznop! :smile: Their are some points in there I'd like to discuss, but we can start enough thread for it. Lets talk about gun control in this one. It's kinda my fault for ending the post with "Why wouldn't you be a libertarian" or some such.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineunbeliever
Yo Daddy!
 User Gallery
Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: The most thoughtful gun-control position I've seen yet.. [Re: retread]
    #3078543 - 09/01/04 05:41 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

retread said:
Off to the tiznop! :smile: Their are some points in there I'd like to discuss, but we can start enough thread for it. Lets talk about gun control in this one. It's kinda my fault for ending the post with "Why wouldn't you be a libertarian" or some such.




Alright. Though I don't have too much of an opinion on gun control because that's just not really my area of interest. Perhaps if I didn't have kids or maybe had a lot of money for that kind of hobby I would be more into it and politically knowledgable. Basically though I think it's sort of like prostitution. Sex is legal, owning a gun should be legal. Raping someone is and should be illegal, shooting someone is and should be illegal. In both cases you have an instrument that in and of itself is not wrong or illegal and so they shouldn't be punished, it's what people can do to hurt others with those instruments that should be regulated and prosecuted more dilligently.

I think if we had a better prison and corrections system, one that better disuaded people from comitting crimes in the first place, gun control for the average law abiding citizen would be less of an issue. That's just my opinion however.


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: The most thoughtful gun-control position I've seen yet.. [Re: unbeliever]
    #3080454 - 09/02/04 12:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

unbeliever said:
Sex is legal, owning a gun should be legal. Raping someone is and should be illegal, shooting someone is and should be illegal. In both cases you have an instrument that in and of itself is not wrong or illegal and so they shouldn't be punished, it's what people can do to hurt others with those instruments that should be regulated and prosecuted more dilligently.




:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Quote:


I think if we had a better prison and corrections system, one that better disuaded people from comitting crimes in the first place, gun control for the average law abiding citizen would be less of an issue. That's just my opinion however.



:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: Scales

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The False Promise of Gun Control
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 2,213 23 04/16/03 07:53 PM
by pattern
* gun control
( 1 2 3 4 ... 11 12 all )
Anonymous 9,868 223 10/08/03 02:45 AM
by Rose
* Brazilians squash gun control law afoaf 764 2 10/24/05 03:11 PM
by afoaf
* Gun Lock Giveaways - Effective Gun Control enimatpyrt 602 10 12/30/03 10:15 AM
by luvdemshrooms
* Test your knowledge of gun control:
( 1 2 3 all )
Ellis Dee 4,019 45 09/14/01 08:14 PM
by wingnutx
* 40 Reasons For Gun Control
( 1 2 all )
Ellis Dee 3,863 31 10/08/13 04:05 AM
by Therian
* Whither Gun Control? luvdemshrooms 1,086 12 05/23/04 09:23 AM
by Xlea321
* Gun control part #666 PjS 1,017 7 12/30/01 11:26 PM
by nugsarenice

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
625 topic views. 2 members, 1 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Fairy Ring Spores
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.076 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 14 queries.