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 daussaulit
Forgetful
Registered: 08/06/02
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 Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon 
#3077593 - 09/01/04 10:20 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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 Rono
DSYSB since '01
 
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: daussaulit]
#3077612 - 09/01/04 10:29 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Awesome... 
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: daussaulit]
#3077645 - 09/01/04 10:43 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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ha...now you've done it. 
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Rono
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Innvertigo]
#3077655 - 09/01/04 10:47 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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You don't honestly think it was a 757 that crashed in the pentagon do you?
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Innvertigo
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Rono]
#3077669 - 09/01/04 10:51 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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it was a blimp....and Bush knew.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Rono
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Innvertigo]
#3077712 - 09/01/04 11:05 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's okay...you don't have to give your honest answer if it makes you uncomfortable. 
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Tao
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: daussaulit]
#3077733 - 09/01/04 11:10 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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interesting...
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Rono]
#3077780 - 09/01/04 11:30 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have no idea what kind of plane if any hit the pentagon. My expertise isn't forensics or anything close to it.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
Edited by Innvertigo (09/01/04 11:45 AM)
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afoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: daussaulit]
#3077839 - 09/01/04 11:53 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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c'mon, this can't be true.
pinky knows someone who saw the airliner hit.
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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DigitalDuality
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: afoaf]
#3077876 - 09/01/04 12:05 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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No it's not true
[color=blue]Claim: The damage to the Pentagon on September 11 was caused by something other than a hijacked Boeing 757's being crashed into its side. [COLOR=blue] Status: [/COLOR][color=red] False. [/COLOR] http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm
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Phluck
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: DigitalDuality]
#3077900 - 09/01/04 12:26 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's pretty obviously not true, a little critical thinking can tell you that. The snopes link does a pretty good job of debunking this one.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Innvertigo
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Rono]
#3077936 - 09/01/04 12:35 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
That's okay...you don't have to give your honest answer if it makes you uncomfortable
That's okay...you don't have to give your honest answer if it makes you uncomfortable...pretty quick to judge i'd say.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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z@z.com
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: daussaulit]
#3077988 - 09/01/04 12:48 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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One of my neighbors worked in the pentagon during that time. It was a plane that hit it.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
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GazzBut
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: z@z.com]
#3078263 - 09/01/04 02:13 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well thats enough evidence for me! Combined with the fact that Pinky also knows someone who saw the airliner hit..what doubt could there be?!!
Hey Phluck have you still got this snopes link?
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Always Smi2le
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Innvertigo
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: GazzBut]
#3078286 - 09/01/04 02:18 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Phluck
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Rono]
#3082908 - 09/02/04 01:26 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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C'mon Rono, you're smarter than that, you don't honestly think that the evidence backing up the idea that it wasn't an airplane holds any water, do you?
First of all, the government would have to be fucking retarded to try and do that. If they want to make it look like an airplane crashed into the pentagon, all they need to do is crash an airplane into the pentagon. If it was a truck bomb, why not just say terrorists blew up a truck at the pentagon? They'd have to somehow pull hundreds (possibly thousands if you count all the people who saw the plane flying low over DC) of civilian witnesses out of their asses.
Then you've got the fact that the analysis of the crash photos is not done by any kind of expert, and the claims they're making about the photos don't even hold up. I can see for myself that the claims like "you can see that the damage covers less area than the wingspan" are bullshit.
Why the fuck would any rationally thinking person take this seriously?
Answer: Because they want to. They dislike the american government, and distrust them, and embrace any evidence they get that backs up their beliefs, whether or not it's complete bullshit. I also think the Bush government are a bunch of fucktards, but I'm not going to buy into completely baseless conspiracy theories.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Phluck
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3083020 - 09/02/04 01:45 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Watching the video, I can see that the conspiracy theory has changed from a truck bomb to a missle, or fighter jet. Why? Because they got a handful of quotes from people saying "It sounded like a missle", "It sounded like a fighter jet", or "I saw something and it looked kind of like a fighter jet". In other words, unsure witnesses whose accounts contradict the accounts of the majority. They also claim that no airplane parts were found, which is complete and utter bullshit.
They do a good job of answering their own questions a few times as well. They show pictures of crash scenes where you can see a large spread out area, and compare it to the photos of where the impact occurred on the outside of the pentagon, and claim that this somehow doesn't add up (obviously they grabbed 4 or 5 pictures of crash sites and thought, 'wow, this doesn't look exactly like the pentagon crash, nevermind the fact that the pentagon is a building, and those pictures are of crashes into land, therefore the pentagon was not the same thing'), after that they go on about how all 5 rings of the pentagon were penetrated. Well, there's your answer, the reason that the front lawn of the pentagon isn't all torn up is because IT WAS NOT HIT BY THE AIRPLANE. The airplane hit the pentagon, and the crash stretched out over all 5 rings. The reason it penetrated the rings, was the same reason some people thought it sounded like a fighter jet; they were going as fast as they possibly could.
Also, the snopes link that Innveritgo posted goes into much more detail. Read the whole thing, and if you still think it wasn't a 757, tell me why the snopes article is wrong.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Anonymous
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3083167 - 09/02/04 02:30 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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After going through this evidence over and over over the past couple years, there is no way I can believe the official story on this one. My own opinion is that a smaller plane hit the Pentagon, not a missle or a Boeing 757. Even from just the two frames of survaillance tape, the only feasible thing that that white blur really looks like is a smaller jet. This aircraft may have even been 'dressed up' to look like an airliner at a quick glance, hence the eyewitness reports. My guess is that it was a small twin-engine private jet, maybe a Gulfstream.
Also, you would think a 757 would have caused much, MUCH more damage to the building due to fuel exploding. Disregarding the yet-fertile-green lawn and even the wing-span argument, just compare the damage at the Pentagon to the damage of one of the Twin Towers at impact and you can see something is amiss.
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Phluck
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: ]
#3083177 - 09/02/04 02:34 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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The damage to the twin towers at impact isn't much different than the damage at the pentagon... and the fuel didn't explode, it just burned at a high temperature for quite a while. The reason there was so much more damage at the WTC was because the buildings collapsed. There's no way you can say with any certainty that the blurry surveillance photos look like anything, that can hardly be considered evidence either way.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: ]
#3083180 - 09/02/04 02:35 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
After going through this evidence over and over over the past couple years, there is no way I can believe the official story on this one
What evidence would that be?
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Anonymous
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Innvertigo]
#3083204 - 09/02/04 02:41 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Photos of the crash site, eyewitness reports, analysis of the damage. There are plenty of sites with this stuff. I haven't really been around the 9-11 investigative sites for a long time, but I think I remember www.physics911.org being fairly comprehensive. Take a look.
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Anonymous
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3083215 - 09/02/04 02:43 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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the fuel didn't explode, it just burned at a high temperature for quite a while
Yeah that's true; I should've said the explosions on impact.
The reason there was so much more damage at the WTC was because the buildings collapsed
No shit?  I meant damage on impact, silly.
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Anonymous
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: daussaulit]
#3083307 - 09/02/04 03:02 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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i'm pretty close to someone who works in the claims department of an aeronautical insurance firm. it happens to be one that american airlines uses. part of his job is to go out and check out crash sites. he does this a lot. he was pretty heavily involved in much of the aftermath of the attacks, and if an american airlines boeing 757 didn't hit the pentagon, he must be quite a sucker for believing that one did.
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Phred
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3083314 - 09/02/04 03:04 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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One more point to add to snopes.com, the eyewitness reports, and Phluck's comments --
Where is the 757 today? Where are the people (passengers and crew) who boarded that flight?
To believe the harebrained conspiracy theorists claiming it was
a) a truck bomb
b) a missile
c) a smaller plane than a 757
one must account for the whereabouts of a 757 full of people. Those people got on a plane -- no one disputes that. Those people have never been seen alive again, nor has the plane ever been spotted since.
And it completely boggles belief that Al Qaeda would hijack four planes, then crash three of them (no one disputes this) while somehow spiriting the fourth one away somewhere and instead using something else in the Pentagon attack.
Forget the photos, forget the eyewitness reports, forget damage reports -- forget everything else that supports the fact that a 757 hit the Pentagon and concentrate on just the points I raise. Those points in themselves show the lunacy of this particular conspiracy plot.
pinky
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zappaisgod
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phred]
#3083326 - 09/02/04 03:07 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Some people need to call the mother ship. This thread belongs on support group
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Zahid
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: zappaisgod]
#3083347 - 09/02/04 03:14 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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The pentagon was hit right where the government wanted it to hit.
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Anonymous
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phred]
#3083353 - 09/02/04 03:14 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, the belief that a 757 hit the Pentagon is based upon the assumption that Al Qaeda hijacked all fours planes and crashed them, which is a premise that I don't buy into. That is why I believe what I said earlier. However, I have no answer whatsoever for that (very good) question you raised. There is not even a hint of evidence of what would've happened to the disappearing airliner full of people. Even taking my own position (that it was a Mossad blackmail operation) into account, there's no logical answer.
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psyka
Praetorian
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: ]
#3083434 - 09/02/04 03:31 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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It really doesnt look like it was hit by a 757 at all. And what if it wasnt? Civil war? I'd say so. The US cant have that, so heres my take:
I'm going to concentrate on the size of the damage on the buildings. The size just does not compensate for the size of a 757... But the wings were made of aluminum and folded back! Huh? If the wings were made of aluminum alloy they would break off going at that speed into a steel reinforced building, not fold back. And seriously...where are the airplane wreckage pieces? The Pentagaon claims that the blackbox was salvaged. So there should be some more pieces of the aircraft to show as well.
Where are the leftover aircraft pieces, huh?
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As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.
 
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Anonymous
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: psyka]
#3083467 - 09/02/04 03:36 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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There are pictures floating around of most of an engine still intact recovered at the crash site. The shape of the piece does not correspond with the Boeing model. I'll try and find it and paste two pics here for comparison later tonight. I have class now though.
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psyka
Praetorian
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: ]
#3083533 - 09/02/04 03:48 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Its really crazy. Up until recently I used to believe the official 9/11 story. And when personally looked at the pictures and the video, it just didnt make sense. Its really shocking.
Missing wing physics: http://physics911.org/net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3
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As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.
Edited by psyka (09/02/04 03:49 PM)
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trendal
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Loc: Ontario, Canada 
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3083552 - 09/02/04 03:52 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phluck said:
First of all, the government would have to be fucking retarded to try and do that.
Now I'm not saying I agree with the whole "it was a missile/fighter jet/not a 757", because I don't. From the evidence supplied to me I am quite sure that it was the 757 that flew into the Pentagon.
However I do feel the need to point out that the whole "they would be stupid to even try something like that" line of reasoning is severely flawed. It is extremely stupid to murder people in this day and age, because forensic science has advanced so much, but you would never hear a defense attorney argue that his client couldn't have committed the murder because it would be "a stupid thing to try". It's just not a valid excuse.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: trendal]
#3083562 - 09/02/04 03:53 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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actually I think they try that fairly often
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Phluck
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: trendal]
#3083633 - 09/02/04 04:11 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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The fact that it would be a stupid thing to try is evidence against it. In order for it to work as it has, they'd certainly have to be experts in deception and manipulation of public opinion. Why would such a brilliantly executed scheme have such a glaring flaw?
It doesn't prove without a doubt that it wasn't faked, but along with the other evidence, I see no reason to take it seriously.
Why don't any of you people who believe the conspiracy theories try to dispute the points from the snopes article?
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
Edited by Phluck (09/02/04 04:13 PM)
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trendal
J♠
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Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3083661 - 09/02/04 04:15 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why don't any of you people who believe the conspiracy theories try to dispute the points from the snopes article?
Probably because I don't "believe" the conspiracy theories and have actually read the snopes articles over several times
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Phluck
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: trendal]
#3083753 - 09/02/04 04:33 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sorry, that comment wasn't directed at you, trendal, it was aimed at those who said they didn't think a 757 hit the pentagon.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3083789 - 09/02/04 04:45 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phluck said:
First of all, the government would have to be fucking retarded to try and do that.
Which they are. Retarded and very smart at the same time.
Quote:
If they want to make it look like an airplane crashed into the pentagon, all they need to do is crash an airplane into the pentagon. If it was a truck bomb, why not just say terrorists blew up a truck at the pentagon? They'd have to somehow pull hundreds (possibly thousands if you count all the people who saw the plane flying low over DC) of civilian witnesses out of their asses.
I'm one of those civilian witnesses. And they have been silencing them, and pulling them out of their asses since 9/11 almost three years ago. Then they have people specifically for the purpose of debunking/discrediting claims. So you don't find it the least bit suspicious that every security camera within 20 miles of the pentagon had their security tapes confiscated within an hour of the event?
Quote:
Then you've got the fact that the analysis of the crash photos is not done by any kind of expert, and the claims they're making about the photos don't even hold up. I can see for myself that the claims like "you can see that the damage covers less area than the wingspan" are bullshit.
why are they bullshit? Isn't it logical that a fucking 757 hitting a building is going to do a little more damage than a few nice holes in the wall?
Quote:
Why the fuck would any rationally thinking person take this seriously?
Because I was there. I live miles from Dulles airport and I see passenger jets fly overhead and landing and taking off all the time. I know what a 757 sounds like, looks like. What I saw fly over 495 towards the pentagon on 9/11/01, was not a passenger jet. It was much too small, manuevering much too fast, and much too low to the ground to be anything even close to a 757. It definitely sounded more like a missile than a massive jetliner.
Quote:
Answer: Because they want to. They dislike the american government, and distrust them, and embrace any evidence they get that backs up their beliefs, whether or not it's complete bullshit.
Uhh.. you don't live in DC do you? Come live with the american government up your ass, and your tune will change.
Quote:
They also claim that no airplane parts were found, which is complete and utter bullshit.
Then where are the airplane parts?
Quote:
They do a good job of answering their own questions a few times as well. They show pictures of crash scenes where you can see a large spread out area, and compare it to the photos of where the impact occurred on the outside of the pentagon, and claim that this somehow doesn't add up (obviously they grabbed 4 or 5 pictures of crash sites and thought, 'wow, this doesn't look exactly like the pentagon crash, nevermind the fact that the pentagon is a building, and those pictures are of crashes into land, therefore the pentagon was not the same thing'), after that they go on about how all 5 rings of the pentagon were penetrated. Well, there's your answer, the reason that the front lawn of the pentagon isn't all torn up is because IT WAS NOT HIT BY THE AIRPLANE. The airplane hit the pentagon, and the crash stretched out over all 5 rings. The reason it penetrated the rings, was the same reason some people thought it sounded like a fighter jet; they were going as fast as they possibly could.
So if a 757 punched through 5 rings of the pentagon at over 500 mph, 2 feet above the ground, why is there only a neat little circular hole through the walls instead of a crumbled building? Why didn't the wings knock down any walls? Oh they must have vaporized along with the rest of the plane. Because that's what planes do.. vaporize and dissapear and do minimal damage to a section of the pentagon that has been under renovation for 10 years. Except when they hit the world trade centers or anything else for that matter. My only conclusion is that the pentagon has magical powers. Or the intelligence community is good at coming up with bullshit and feeding it to the masses, whichever is more probable.
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Shroomism]
#3083929 - 09/02/04 05:24 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wouldn't exactly call that a "neat little circular hole".
In the first one, you can see that there was damage done to a huge portion of the pentagon, that's the area as it's being rebuilt.
In the last picture you can clearly see the damage from the wings, right near the bottom of the area of impact.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Shroomism]
#3083952 - 09/02/04 05:32 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Uhh.. you don't live in DC do you? Come live with the american government up your ass, and your tune will change."
Living in DC would make me more likely to believe that the pentagon attack was faked? I also dislike and distrust the american government, but it's a normal part of human nature to cling to evidence for something that backs up your own beliefs and opinions.
As for the claim that there were no plane parts found, it's just not true. There were lots of parts found, but the plane was pretty badly obliterated. This looks like a piece of plane to me:
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/images/debris.jpg
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3084028 - 09/02/04 05:53 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phluck said:
I wouldn't exactly call that a "neat little circular hole".
In the first one, you can see that there was damage done to a huge portion of the pentagon, that's the area as it's being rebuilt.
In the last picture you can clearly see the damage from the wings, right near the bottom of the area of impact.
Still, it doesn't look like enough damage from a 757 hitting at full impact. If the wings hit the bottom, and didn't penetrate the walls like the rest of the plane.. then where did they go? and why is there no damage to the lawn right where they would have hit and incinerated?
The 'neat little circular holes' were in the 5 inner walls that it penetrated through, not the outside. But I still think a 757 would do much more damage.
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Zahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
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 Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Shroomism]
#3084046 - 09/02/04 05:57 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Mossad Mossad Mossad
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Shroomism]
#3086948 - 09/03/04 10:53 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Still, it doesn't look like enough damage from a 757 hitting at full impact."
I'm not entirely sure you're an expert on that...
"If the wings hit the bottom, and didn't penetrate the walls like the rest of the plane.. then where did they go? "
Look carefully at the bottom of the building on the last picture, it's clear that the damage stretches out, the wings are much lighter and have far less momentum that the rest of the plane, they would be torn to shreds in an instant, while the rest of the plane would continue into the middle part of the building, along with all the fuel, and that's where the incineration would occur, not on the lawn. That's why so much of the building needed to be replaced, because of the massive fire that resulted. The smaller holes inside the building would be lined up with the center of gravity of the airplane.
If those small holes were caused by a missle, you'd see an identical small hole in the front of the building, they'd line up until the point inside the building where the missle detonated. Of course, I'm no expert, but I'm not sure that a missle would make it that far into the building before detonating. A 757 is much large and would have far more momentum; the fuel was able to ignite and spread throughout the building, after considerable damage was done to the front, and some part of the plane continued in and smashed holes in the other walls. I have a feeling that a missle would hit the first wall and explode, causing a lot of damage to it, and probably scorching the lawn in front.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3087162 - 09/03/04 11:38 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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did you know that they confiscated security tapes from the
oklahoma city federal building within hours of the bombing?
these were federal cameras, affixed to the building itself,
as well as the security cameras at various other commericial
locations nearby, within sight of the building.
many of these were directly affixed to or indirectly capturing
video of the front of the building, right where timothy mcveigh
parked the truck and exited.
many eyewitnesses to the event claimed to have seen a
dark skinned man get out of the passenger seat with mcveigh
when he parked the ryder truck in front of the building.
john doe #2
the images on those cameras have never been released, the
pictures that could help capture john doe #2 have never been
shown.
they were not even used in mcveighs trials.
the single most damning piece of evidence, timothy mcveigh driving
up in the ryder truck, parking and exiting the vehicle have never
been released to the public.
why not put silence 'to those who scare peace loving people with
phantoms of lost liberty' by releasing the footage on those tapes?
a freeway cam, capturing a frame a second, isn't going to clearly
show an aircraft traveling 500whatever mph, but what about the
other footage?
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: afoaf]
#3087202 - 09/03/04 11:47 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Of course they confiscated the tapes, they thought they might be useful. If they weren't used in the trial, it probably turned out they didn't contain any useful evidence.
"many eyewitnesses to the event claimed to have seen a
dark skinned man get out of the passenger seat with mcveigh
when he parked the ryder truck in front of the building."
Whoopdidoo, eyewitnesses aren't really that reliable. People often forget significant details, or completely boff them up later. Many studies have been done on this.
http://www.colchsfc.ac.uk/psychology/reliability%20of%20EWT.htm
http://www.amnestyusa.org/education/lessonplans/dp9_eyewitness.html
http://www.child-custody.com/eyewitness.htm
McVeigh was most likely influenced by the Christian Identity movement. They found a copy of "The Turner Diaries", a novel that is about a massive race war, started by the bombing of a government building.
Most conspiracy theories are damned silly.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3087464 - 09/03/04 12:45 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Most conspiracy theories are damned silly.
not really...if you look at what happened at Ruby Ridge, Waco
and in Oklahoma city, you'll realized that the government is
malicious and that it has the ability to execute these sorts of
events.
go further back, look at the historic precedent over the course
of time...
the great fire of rome, the reichstag, pearl harbor
all devastating events used to expedite political ends.
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: afoaf]
#3087563 - 09/03/04 01:16 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ruby Ridge and Waco are examples of incompetant fuck ups on the parts of the government, I don't see how that's a decent example of how the government has the ability to execute anything properly. Oklahoma City, if you're going to claim as an example of something the government did, you've got some pretty loose and shoddy evidence to back it up, if any. I don't exactly see how Oklahoma was used to expedite political ends. It's not suprising at all that McVeigh, someone with ties to militant racist groups, would try to pull something like this off. With the different militant right wing groups in the US, it's suprising you haven't seen any other attacks like this one.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3087850 - 09/03/04 02:28 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Clinton enacted Patriot Act-like legislation in the wake of OK.
as far as the waco and ruby ridge references, they illuminate
a couple points:
1. the government is capable of unconstitutionally iniating force
against citizens, to the point of murder.
2. the government is capable of burying, obscurring and distorting
facts and information regarding the details of these events in an
effort to demonize the victims and rationalize their actions.
3. the media is failing it's responsibilty to the citizens by falling in
line with the official story with very little questioning.
look around at the information regarding OK:
1. john doe #2
2. multiple explosions
3. recovered unexploded charges inside building
4. every federal agent in the building was out of the office
5. federal judges had been warned in advance
6. check out 'The Final Jihad' by Michael Keating
just as with september 11th, the Clinton administration enacted
some pretty abhorrent legislation in the wake of the bombing,
of course, most of which had already been written well before
the event.
I have very little faith in the virtues of government.
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)
Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3087860 - 09/03/04 02:31 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
With the different militant right wing groups in the US, it's suprising you haven't seen any other attacks like this one.
Seriously.With all the flim flam about terrorism,how come no one is talking about right wing militia wackos?
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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: afoaf]
#3087940 - 09/03/04 02:51 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's a convient little list of "facts", but are they even true? Where's the evidence to back them up, or did you just read them off of some conspiracy theory site and believe them without question?
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3088146 - 09/03/04 03:58 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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don't just sit there like a doubting thomas, just look around
and see what you can find.
Alex Jones', The Road to Tyranny has some interesting tidbits
of cited information if you can wade through Jones' hyperbole
and pension for the dramatic.
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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ekomstop
Registered: 03/31/01
Posts: 1,880
Loc: Canada 
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: afoaf]
#3088279 - 09/03/04 04:29 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: afoaf]
#3088462 - 09/03/04 05:26 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've got a gut feeling that it's entirely bullshit, mainly because I haven't seen a single piece of backed up information that is enough to foster any suspicion. If you can provide me with something, then maybe I'll be interested enough to research it, but I have very little time as it is to research legitimate topics, so I'm not going to waste my time taking some crackpot conspiracy theory seriously.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Anonymous
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3088884 - 09/03/04 07:00 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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usefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!
Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3095897 - 09/05/04 06:02 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Face it, a group involving significant pieces of your government trained "terrorists", funded, planned and orchestrated 9/11, aswell as the first WTC attack, the oaklahoma city bombimg, they let pearl harbour happen, ect, ect, ect, all for the sole purpose of advancing their own agenda. America has been hi-jacked.
Yep.
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Phluck]
#3096021 - 09/05/04 06:52 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phluck said:
I wouldn't exactly call that a "neat little circular hole".
In the first one, you can see that there was damage done to a huge portion of the pentagon, that's the area as it's being rebuilt.
In the last picture you can clearly see the damage from the wings, right near the bottom of the area of impact.
Sorry, but those images were taken BEFORE the outer wall collapsed. A few minutes earlier the following photos were taken showing an intact wall. An intact wall that a commercial plane supposedly flew into at 750mph. Think.
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retread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: Innvertigo]
#3096368 - 09/05/04 08:53 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I live 45 minutes away from DC and I WENT there on 9/11. Being a fireman (and in great shape for a bit of a hike), I had a pretty easy time getting near to the pentagon. It was a fucking air plane in there. Not a space ship, not anything else, really. A LARGE airplane.
Oh, I realize that my job of SELLING AIRPLANEs might make it hard for you to believe something I saw with my own two eyes instead of liberalfuckball.net's interpretation thereof...
sorry for the quick-reply mistake
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retread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: ]
#3096389 - 09/05/04 09:00 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Max Headroom said:
After going through this evidence over and over over the past couple years, there is no way I can believe the official story on this one.
this should be good...
Quote:
My own opinion is that a smaller plane hit the Pentagon, not a missle or a Boeing 757. Even from just the two frames of survaillance tape, the only feasible thing that that white blur really looks like is a smaller jet. This aircraft may have even been 'dressed up' to look like an airliner at a quick glance, hence the eyewitness reports. My guess is that it was a small twin-engine private jet, maybe a Gulfstream.
My company currently owns 12 Gulfstream IV's. If you'd like to look at one of them close up, let me know where you live, i'll fly there and you can see oen of them next to a 757. Of course, it will cost you 15,000$ . PM me for details.
Quote:
Also, you would think a 757 would have caused much, MUCH more damage to the building due to fuel exploding. Disregarding the yet-fertile-green lawn and even the wing-span argument, just compare the damage at the Pentagon to the damage of one of the Twin Towers at impact and you can see something is amiss.
The Twin Towers aren't the Pentagon. That would be like setting off a firecracker inside a model house made of balsa wood and assuming that setting off a firecracked inside a model house made of case hardened steel would have the same effect.
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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: retread]
#3096534 - 09/05/04 09:26 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you saw the plane in there how come nobody else did.
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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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usefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!
Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: retread]
#3096580 - 09/05/04 09:33 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
retread said:
I live 45 minutes away from DC and I WENT there on 9/11. Being a fireman (and in great shape for a bit of a hike), I had a pretty easy time getting near to the pentagon. It was a fucking air plane in there. Not a space ship, not anything else, really. A LARGE airplane.
Oh, I realize that my job of SELLING AIRPLANEs might make it hard for you to believe something I saw with my own two eyes instead of liberalfuckball.net's interpretation thereof...
sorry for the quick-reply mistake
Are you full of shit..or are you full of shit?
How could you have seen a plane "in there" when the plane never fully penetrated through the wall in the first place?
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thieverycorp
Stranger
Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 181
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: usefulidiot]
#3096615 - 09/05/04 09:41 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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and wasn't the plane pretty much destroyed beyond recognition?
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retread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: afoaf]
#3096997 - 09/05/04 10:58 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
afoaf said:
4. every federal agent in the building was out of the office
Depends on how you define "office". I watched a special about explosives and it had an ATF agent on there who was in the OK building as it exploded. He was using a walkie-talkie to radio to outside BATF agents so that they could find him. He came down a set of steps that weren't damaged.
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retread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: afoaf]
#3096998 - 09/05/04 10:58 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
afoaf said:
4. every federal agent in the building was out of the office
Depends on how you define "office". I watched a special about explosives and it had an ATF agent on there who was in the OK building as it exploded. He was using a walkie-talkie to radio to outside BATF agents so that they could find him. He came down a set of steps that weren't damaged.
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ekomstop
Registered: 03/31/01
Posts: 1,880
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Conspiracy Theorists, flash movie about the Pentagon [Re: retread]
#3097260 - 09/05/04 11:43 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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What the hell are you talking about?
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