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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Animal Rights
    #3068645 - 08/30/04 12:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Do [non-human] animals have rights? How do you know? Which rights do they have? If you don't believe in natural rights, then which rights should animals be accorded? Discuss.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3068683 - 08/30/04 12:48 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

They have rights in the same way but to a lesser extent than us.

As for how we know, the best system for judging how significant an animal's rights are is to evaluate its morally relevant criteria. Definitions for these vary, but they typically include things like self-awareness, ability to feel pleasure/pain and autonomy as the main ones.

This is my main problem with the pro-life lobby - a foetus at up to say, 20 weeks, has less morally relevant criteria than, say, a chicken.

I believe that there is obviously no need to grant animals rights in the wild, but when it is necessary to keep them as farm animals or for research purposes (I'm not saying it is ever necessary, it might be, but that's a different debate) then they should have the right to a similar or better quality life than they would have had in the wild.

I think the rights you give to animals depends on the rights you give to humans. They are the same but scaled down.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3068954 - 08/30/04 01:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

As much as I love animals, I don't believe that they have any inherant 'rights'...

"Rights" are man made and in my opinion only apply to mankind...as cruel as it sounds animals are little more than lower rungs on the food chain.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: Rono]
    #3068979 - 08/30/04 01:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

But why do they only apply to mankind? What if there was an animal that was as intelligent as mankind? Would they get rights?


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: deafpanda]
    #3068989 - 08/30/04 02:03 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Mankind 'invented' his own rights....if you took man out of the equation how different would animals rights be? They would still suffer, starve, be hunted etc...

If there was an animal as 'intelligent' as mankind (and I use that word loosely) then they would have their own system of 'rights' and I assume that they would not want us imposing our 'rights' on them.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (08/30/04 02:03 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: deafpanda]
    #3069052 - 08/30/04 02:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

> What if there was an animal that was as intelligent as mankind?

Why worry about what ifs... ?


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3069214 - 08/30/04 03:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Animal Rights were never an issue when the majority of people worked on farms. The advent of urban industrial society has a lot to do with the animal rights movement.


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Tastes just like chicken


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3069241 - 08/30/04 03:09 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Animals have the right to be eaten.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: Rono]
    #3069263 - 08/30/04 03:15 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

"Rights" are man made and in my opinion only apply to mankind




So if our rights are man-made why cant we make rights we then apply to animals?

Quote:

as cruel as it sounds animals are little more than lower rungs on the food chain.




I think they play a slightly more important role than simply providing us with food. The earth is a very delicately balanced organism.


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: GazzBut]
    #3069311 - 08/30/04 03:28 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

"Rights" are man made and in my opinion only apply to mankind




So if our rights are man-made why cant we make rights we then apply to animals?

Quote:

as cruel as it sounds animals are little more than lower rungs on the food chain.




I think they play a slightly more important role than simply providing us with food. The earth is a very delicately balanced organism.




Do you think a chicken cares whether we legislate rights for it or not?


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3069599 - 08/30/04 04:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Animals DO have rights!

Wild Animals have the same right as animal rights activists in my state.

The right to remain silent. Should they give up that right, any noise they make, may be used as a way to locate them and shoot them.

Pamphlets from the fish and game commission have stated that all hunters will be "No Billed" should any animal rights activists be shot while trying to scare away the hunters pry.

Most animals have the right to be Bar-B-Qed, Baked, fried, or sauteed.

Now to a little more serious note.

The reason that people in the city/urban areas think animals have rights is because they picture the little furry house pet.
Most are not aware how dangerous wild animals can be and they have been removed from the act of prepairing there food and do not have a visual idea where there food comes from.

Note: Most pets are part of the family and viewed as a sibling. I do not agree with mistreeting them or abusing them! I am talking about animals for food. Although if you were hungry enough you would eat your own dog/cat!

What comes to mind is a story I saw on the news about 10 years ago. A lady was jogging in California. She came across a mountain lion on the jogging path and went to see if it was hurt or needed her help. The interview was with her in the hospital all bandaged up. I vividly remember hey saying "I used to believe in animal rights, because the animals needed our help! Now I realize I was wrong and those are dangerous animals."


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3069738 - 08/30/04 05:16 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Animals lack the mental capacity to even understand what a Right is, so I don't think animals have 'Rights'. However, in as much as animals feel pain like people do they should be protected and cared for in just the same way. That is an issue of ethics rather than legal rights.


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Invisibleretread
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Registered: 07/14/04
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3069760 - 08/30/04 05:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Do the people that are pro-animal rights (to an extreme, that is) cultivate mushrooms? How many trillions of life forms, or potential life forms, are you destroying in your stereoclave / pressure cooker? Just wondering...


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: Rono]
    #3069854 - 08/30/04 05:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Do you think a chicken cares whether we legislate rights for it or not?





uhhh great answer man!


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Always Smi2le


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3069910 - 08/30/04 05:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Animals lack the mental capacity to even understand what a Right is



Nor do some members of this forum. Perhaps we should eat them.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleGijith
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3069939 - 08/30/04 06:05 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

From a utilitarian perspective (morality through trying to create the greatest amount of worldwide happiness), I think that animals should have more rights than people. Cause you could make a good case that the vast majority of animals are more happy and content than the 6 billion selfconscious apes running around here. So let's all promote cannibalism.
:microwave:
(thought I'd never have an excuse to use that smiley)


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Invisibleretread
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: Gijith]
    #3070001 - 08/30/04 06:21 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think that utilitarianism extends to simpler life forms. Do the imperfect fungi's count? Plants? germs? Anthrax bacterium? Smallpox?


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InvisibleGijith
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3070031 - 08/30/04 06:28 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well, if you follow the teachings of L Ron Hubbard...

You would be an insane cult member. No, I think you're right, the laws aren't supposed to extend past humans.

Personally, I think both animal rights and utilitarianism is shit.


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3070143 - 08/30/04 06:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Animals only have rights when they are recognized by other animals, for example human rights.

Rights are like the constitution. Irrelevant!


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If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Animal Rights [Re: silversoul7]
    #3070666 - 08/30/04 09:12 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Trees can communicate to one another. When one tree gets a disease it releases chemicals into the air that the other trees receive. When they get these chemical signals, they start the process of building up their defense system to that disease. Biologists were curious why one tree would get sick in a stand and not all the others. Then they found out why. I wonder if trees talk politics or even muse about some of the deeper metaphysical aspects of being while they sit around for all those decades. I will never know, but I do know they make great furniture.

The smell of fresh cut grass is a great smell, but it is actually grass doing the same thing, sending out those chemicals as a result of an attack/injury. While you may love that smell, think of the millions of tiny blades that are screaming out in pain.

You would think a society that is known for sucking the heads off of a fetus with a glorified vacuum cleaner would care very little about the fate of chickens and cows. It is touching. Somewhat misplaced, but touching nonetheless.

Like I said earlier, Animal rights only became an issue when the majority of the population ceased working on farms. Go back a hundred years and they would have locked you up as a looney.

For my part, I start every day with well done breakfast sausage. I like the maple links. Then I have some bacon, which is pure fat that was shaved off of the belly of a hog. Gotta love those hogs, their bellies cook up crisp, and the best way to cook em up is in their own fat.

Now if somebody beat my German Shepard, I would want him dead.


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Tastes just like chicken


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