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OfflineEd1
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Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 150
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Even the French are taken prisoner
    #3062789 - 08/28/04 07:17 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Vichey France stayed out of the Iraq war. Still the fascists attack them.



Iraq militants seize two French journalists, give 48-hour ultimatum: report

Two French journalists have been taken hostage in Iraq by Islamic militants demanding the rescinding of a ban on the Islamic headscarf in French schools, the Arabic satellite news channel Al-Jazeera reported. The kidnappers from the Islamic Army in Iraq, the same group which killed Italian journalist Enzo Baldoni after taking him hostage, gave Paris a 48-hour ultimatum to meet its demands, the Qatar-based television said citing "our own sources in Iraq".

The group is demanding that "France rescinds within 48 hours the law banning" Islamic headscarves in schools, describing the law as "an injustice and an attack on the Islamic religion and individual freedoms," Al-Jazeera said.

The French legislation, passed in March amid much controversy and some overseas criticism, prohibits any ostentatious religious insignia, including Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses, in state schools and universities. But the legislation -- due to go into effect in September when classes resume -- was widely criticized in many countries in the Arab world, which said it was an example of blatant discrimination against Muslims.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=st...3&ncid=1480



DEATH TO ISLAM!!!


Edited by Ed1 (08/28/04 07:18 PM)


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Ed1]
    #3063084 - 08/28/04 08:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Bye.



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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Ed1]
    #3065013 - 08/29/04 02:19 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"The French legislation, passed in March amid much controversy and some overseas criticism, prohibits any ostentatious religious insignia, including Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses, in state schools and universities. But the legislation -- due to go into effect in September when classes resume -- was widely criticized in many countries in the Arab world, which said it was an example of blatant discrimination against Muslims. "


So what basically is going on is that the Muslims are too angry and/or stupid to realize that's it's a sweeping law targetting all religion, not their silly sandgod? maybe they should change it so everyone HAS to wear Muslim headgear. wait, yes, yes I think that's what they're going for. NO CROSSES OR SKULLCAPS! HEADSCARFS FOR ALL!

This is why the Muslim world is considered a to be bunch of stupid, violent jerkbags.


Granted in America, Christian groups push for Christian rights over all often, but they don't kidnap, they don't issue ultimatums, they don't kill people. They just whine, bitch, and scream, which is the correct way to go about it. Convince people you're right, not force them into doing what you want. If you do that they'll still believe you're wrong, and you will create a lot of animosity towards your cause.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3065376 - 08/29/04 03:54 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Don't waste your breath, Ed1 is banned.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3065391 - 08/29/04 04:02 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The French law is what I like to call Leftist Fascism.

Under the laws of Islam the hijab is a symbol of modesty required by all Muslim women to wear if they are in public - i.e., places other than her home. Most Muslim women also feel it is liberating, some even wear a veil out of simple piety. Christian's are not required by their religion to wear a crucifix around their necks, and Jews are not required to wear the skull cap. But in Islam, the hijab is mentioned as a tenet of Islamic Law both in the Holy Qur'an and Hadith of Prophet Muhammad. Besides, Christian crosses, Jewish skull caps, and designless head scarves would only be offensive to the abnormal and insecure.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Zahid]
    #3065430 - 08/29/04 04:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Zahid writes:

The French law is what I like to call Leftist Fascism.

Whatever one wishes to call it, it is an offense to individual freedom, no doubt about it.

However, the hijab is a very recent invention. As Amir Taheri points out:

The headgear in question has nothing to do with Islam as a religion. It is not sanctioned anywhere in the Koran, the fundamental text of Islam, or the hadith (traditions) attributed to the Prophet.

This headgear was invented in the early 1970s by Mussa Sadr, an Iranian mullah who had won the leadership of the Lebanese Shiite community.

In an interview in 1975 in Beirut, Sadr told this writer that the hijab he had invented was inspired by the headgear of Lebanese Catholic nuns, itself inspired by that of Christian women in classical Western paintings. (A casual visit to the Metropolitan Museum in New York, or the Louvre in Paris, would reveal the original of the neo-Islamist hijab in numerous paintings depicting Virgin Mary and other female figures from the Old and New Testament.)

Sadr's idea was that, by wearing the headgear, Shiite women would be clearly marked out, and thus spared sexual harassment, and rape, by Yasser Arafat's Palestinian gunmen who at the time controlled southern Lebanon.

Sadr's neo-hijab made its first appearance in Iran in 1977 as a symbol of Islamist-Marxist opposition to the Shah's regime. When the mullahs seized power in Tehran in 1979, the number of women wearing the hijab exploded into tens of thousands.

In 1981, Abol-Hassan Bani-Sadr, the first president of the Islamic Republic, announced that "scientific research had shown that women's hair emitted rays that drove men insane." To protect the public, the new Islamist regime passed a law in 1982 making the hijab mandatory for females aged above six, regardless of religious faith. Violating the hijab code was made punishable by 100 lashes of the cane and six months imprisonment.

Muslim women could easily check the fraudulent nature of the neo-Islamist hijab by leafing through their family albums. They will not find the picture of a single female ancestor of theirs who wore the cursed headgear now marketed as an absolute "must" of Islam.

http://www.instapundit.com/archives/011082.php

Taheri's article originally appeared in a Canadian newspaper, the National Post, but the Post's link is expired so I gave the Instapundit one instead.

pinky


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Phred]
    #3065462 - 08/29/04 04:33 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Hehe, hijab has existed ever since the Prophet Muhammad. The Holy Qur'an and Ahadith has two parts that pertain to women's head gear. Several ayats and hafith call for the hijab for Believing women (Muslim women).. one calls for the full veil on the Prophet Muhammad's wives. I don't know where you get your information, hijab has always been in Islam, the word hijab is foosah Arabic so it couldn't be a 'recent invention'. Believe me, I would know; as obviously I'm a Muslim. If you don't know the difference between Salih al Bukhari and Salih al Muslim, you frankly know squat about my religion.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Zahid]
    #3065489 - 08/29/04 04:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Taheri is not the only commentator to have pointed this out. Google "origin hijab" and see for yourself. His point about photos of Muslim women pre-1970s holds true as well -- go to any library and dig through some back issues of National Geographic magazine.

Note that even though the headscarf is not a requirement of Islam, I do oppose France's ban of them. I also oppose the threatened execution of hostages in the attempt to get the French government to reverse their position.

pinky


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Phred]
    #3065531 - 08/29/04 04:52 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Pinky, this has to be a low point in all your points of position.

How about this, I'm about to head down to the masjid. Why don't I ask sis Khadijah and her friends - she just turned 81. Heck, there's a dozen other oldies at the mosque, both male and female who can testify what life was like back in the day, and they would be more than happy to share their stories and answer the questions of a young Murid like myself, like all old people.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Zahid]
    #3065634 - 08/29/04 05:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Pinky, this has to be a low point in all your points of position.

What on earth is "low" about quoting the words of one who makes his living analyzing the Arab and Muslim world?

How about this, I'm about to head down to the masjid.

While you're there, ask them to give you a specific reference to the appropriate verses of the Qu'ran which state that the head scarf is obligatory for Muslim women.

Hey... I'm not a Muslim. But I am interested in the modern version of the Religion of Peace and its various pathologies, so I do research. The internet is a great tool for research. It's not just Tameri who says the compulsoriness (is that a word?) of the headscarf is a recent invention. In the full version of his article, Tameri also points out that in Senegal, Muslim women wear colorful headscarfs as protection from the sun while working in the fields, yet work bare-breasted. They've done this for centuries. Do the Senegalese subscribe to a different form of Islam than those Muslims living in France? This is a serious question, by the way.

I have no doubt that before the day is over you'll be able to point us to links quoting the specific verses of the Qu'ran which show that Muslim women are required to cover all but their hands. Or perhaps you won't. Until you do, I'll accept differing opinions on the matter.

pinky


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Phred]
    #3066079 - 08/29/04 07:44 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

What on earth is "low" about quoting the words of one who makes his living analyzing the Arab and Muslim world?

People who make their living analyzing the Arab and Muslim world are called 'orientalists'. It's low because it's fairly insulting when non-Muslims think they know something about Islam that every Muslim on earth does not. One can study Islam all they want, unless they can read Arabic, they won't get very far.

"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, headcover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband?s fathers, or their sons, or their husband?s sons, or their brothers or their brother?s sons, or their sister?s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allaah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful"

[al-Noor 24:31]

"And as for women past childbearing who do not expect wedlock, it is no sin on them if they discard their (outer) clothing in such a way as not to show their adornment. But to refrain (i.e. not to discard their outer clothing) is better for them. And Allaah is All Hearer, All Knower"

[al-Noor 24:60]

"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allaah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful"

[al-Ahzaab 33:59]

"O you who believe! Enter not the Prophet?s houses, unless permission is given to you for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation. But when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken your meal, disperse without sitting for a talk. Verily, such (behaviour) annoys the Prophet, and he is shy of (asking) you (to go); but Allaah is not shy of (telling you) the truth. And when you ask (his wives) for anything you want, ask them from behind a screen, that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts. And it is not (right) for you that you should annoy Allaah?s Messenger, nor that you should ever marry his wives after him (his death). Verily, with Allaah that shall be an enormity"

[al-Ahzaab 33:53]

And those are just some of the Qur'anic ayat's that pertain to the hijab. Would you like to hear the ahadith now?

Muslim women have covered there hair since the time of the Prophet.  :rolleyes:

I can still post the hadiths if you want, but the listed ayats should be enough prove your position wrong.

Also, you really ought to research 'Muslim' orientalism...funny how non-Arabic speakers think they 'know' Islam in and out when Muslims from Cat Stevens to Hamza Josef, to East Indian scholars, go to great lengths to learn Arabic over seas in order to properly study Islam.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Zahid]
    #3066137 - 08/29/04 08:01 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

What a bunch of benighted fools. Muslim women need to completely encumber themselves because Muslim men are such swine that they cannot be held responsible for their behaviour and cannot be expected to act decently. No wonder they are widely regarded as little better than animals by civilized people.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3066153 - 08/29/04 08:04 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Being a tad xenophobic are we. This is our culture. Every Muslimah I've ever met considers the scarve a liberation. You = Racist.  :confused:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Zahid]
    #3066211 - 08/29/04 08:19 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

That's why women are executed when they don't wear it. Or are murdered when they dishonor their families by objecting to their arranged marriages. How's your arranged marriage coming along.

I didn't know Muslim was a race. I thought it was a choice. Lesson #1 Religion is a choice (well it is for most, for Muslim women it's a sentence). Lesson #2 Race is something you have no control over i.e. not a choice. Lesson #3 You will be held accountable for your choices.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3066244 - 08/29/04 08:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

There's a difference between a commandment in a religious text and some asshole 1,400 years later. Use your head.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Zahid]
    #3066310 - 08/29/04 08:59 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I fail to see the difference between a 10,000 year old idiocy versus a 2 day old idiocy and frankly I have no idea what you are referring too. You still didn't tell me how your arranged marriage was coming along. Nor did you address my racism point. Nor did you explain why, if it's a man's weakness that is the cause of the veil, men are not required to blind themselves in some way, since they are clearly the more inadequate gender, according to Islam.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3066340 - 08/29/04 09:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Allah revealed his Law in the Holy Qur'an, Muslims - as we are believers, are to obey them. You are making a 'point' out of it because you believe the Qur'an was made up. We're going to be running around in circles here since I hold the Qur'an as the Word of Allah, you do not.

Women cover their hair in Islam because men are naturally more sexual than women are.

What can I say? People who don't believe in the Qur'an are of course going to disagree with it.

However, when unbelievers try to influence our Muslim culture, our way of life that is directed towards pleasing Allah - we don't take kindly to that.

Western women feel they are liberated by wearing mini skirts and tube tops. Muslim women feel they are liberated by protecting their modesty. Different culture.

Maybe racist is not a proper wording, but xenophobic seems to easily fit in that place.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Zahid]
    #3066443 - 08/29/04 09:31 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:

"Women cover their hair in Islam because men are naturally more sexual than women are."

This is just mind-numbingly stupid but still, why are the women the ones who have to make up for male inadequacy? Why don't the men have to wear fogging goggles when they might come into contact with women? Or does the Koran say women are less than human (oh wait it does)?

"What can I say? People who don't believe in the Qur'an are of course going to disagree with it."

Duh.

"However, when unbelievers try to influence our Muslim culture, our way of life that is directed towards pleasing Allah - we don't take kindly to that."

I don't recall any atheists driving planes into the temple of the rock, or even marines invading your stupid holy site in Najaf. As for the the US presence in S.A., we were begged to come by MUSLIMS. I don't see any concerted effort by any government to make any Muslims do anything other than to stop murdering people who disagree with them.

"Western women feel they are liberated by wearing mini skirts and tube tops. Muslim women feel they are liberated by protecting their modesty. Different culture."

Why does the Muslim "culture" feel a need to murder women who CHOOSE not to adhere to their benighted crap. Even the ridiculous Catholic church doesn't execute people for heresy any more.

"Maybe racist is not a proper wording, but xenophobic seems to easily fit in that place. "




Xenophobic? I think not. I am not afraid. Murderers are different from me but I don't think I'm xenophobic if I think they are scum. I THINK MURDERERS ARE SCUM. I think that anyone who beats women because they don't wear a veil is scum. Once again I ask, how is your arranged marriage coming?


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3066471 - 08/29/04 09:38 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Arranged marriage? Care to elaborate...

Are you calling Muslims 'scum'? Are you comparing them to murderers?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Even the French are taken prisoner [Re: Zahid]
    #3066509 - 08/29/04 09:47 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I'm calling the Muslims who murder and beat people in the name of their religion or for any other reason scum.

As to your upcoming arranged marriage I'm assuming that the men are also forced into the marriages their families choose for them. Or do you get to choose yoyr bride with a fist full of rials and they are sold to the highest bidder (is that what is meant by a dowry?)?


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