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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
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Iraqis can think for themselves
    #3062237 - 08/28/04 04:38 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The political storm surrounding Iraq has refused to leave the side of the coalition partners. The scandal around the brutal and systematic torture of Iraqi prisoners has been the latest in a long list of blows to the occupying powers. Amidst the torrent of condemnation from other nations and the shock of people in the West to the torture committed by occupying forces in Iraq, a dangerous and new trend has emerged which has agreement from all states irrespective of their views on the initial invasion of Iraq.

US and UK governments have insisted on keeping their troops within Iraq, beyond the cosmetic handover of power on June 30, on the basis that any withdrawal may lead to a worsening of fighting and bloodshed in Iraq. They have also claimed that it is imperative for the coalition to remain in order to build a democratic and stable Iraq. This is no more than the latest in a long line of deceptive arguments aimed to cloak the West?s true colonial aims; the lie of Iraq?s alleged WMD?s was soon changed to liberating the people from Saddam?s tyranny, and now it rests upon the idea that only with Western assistance can Iraq be transformed into having a secure future.

This line of argument assumes that the Muslims of the region actually desire a democratic state modelled in the West?s image, that Muslims are incapable of living with each other without resorting to bloodshed and that they have no alternative political system of their own to which they can naturally turn to. What the Western world is really saying is that Muslims are unable to determine their future without the West?s support.

The Muslim community must be vocal in dismissing the dangerous deceptions in these arguments. These premises should be shunned by pointing out the true nature of Western intervention; the British invasion of 1916, the support and arming of Saddam in the 1980s in the bloody war with Iran, the use of depleted uranium and punishing sanctions in the 1990s to the current occupation and torture of the Iraqi people. A century of Western destruction of Iraqi lives cannot be overturned by extending the stay of coalition forces for a few more years. The cause of the problems of the Muslim world cannot now be offered as a solution to her ills.

Muslims must demand nothing less than an immediate and complete withdrawal of all foreign forces from Iraq, whether they are under the auspices of the UN or the USA. The notion that only democracy can offer a solution for Iraq is a clear demonstration of the desire to impose Western style solutions on the Muslims and forcefully prevent them from re-establishing a state based on Islam. The West is well aware that Islam offers a detailed political system and it is this Khilafah state that the Ummah yearns for. The Muslim community must decisively reject the call for Western intervention in our lands. We must build the argument that the Muslim world has a duty to determine her politics according to the systems offered by Islam alone. It is time to reclaim our political destiny.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Iraqis can think for themselves [Re: Zahid]
    #3062259 - 08/28/04 04:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The above was excerpted from http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=9728&TagID=24

Zahid, if you are going to cut and paste from an online source, the rules of this forum require that you provide a link to the source. In future, please do so. Thanks.

pinky


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Invisibledownforpot
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Registered: 06/25/01
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Re: Iraqis can think for themselves [Re: Zahid]
    #3062339 - 08/28/04 05:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I think we should just get out and let them fight it out. I know that thousands will die but it's obvious that they do not want US there. I say let them settle it on their own terms.

Anyone here seen Black Hawk Down? I donno if all of that shit is true but this is what one of the militiamen said "Killing is negotiation in Somalia".


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"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Iraqis can think for themselves [Re: Phred]
    #3062407 - 08/28/04 05:34 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

yea, there is alot of MySQL problems at Khilafah. It's by Zubaid something.


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OfflineEd1
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Registered: 07/03/04
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Re: Iraqis can think for themselves [Re: Zahid]
    #3062848 - 08/28/04 07:36 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Taking Iraq and Afganistan puts us in a good position to take out Iran.

FREE IRAN!!! http://www.activistchat.com/phpBB2/index.php

DEATH TO ISLAM!!!


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: Iraqis can think for themselves [Re: Zahid]
    #3063390 - 08/28/04 10:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I think there is a pretty good argument that Iraqis are unable to form a a just form of government without us. Look at EVERY other autocratic Islamic government in the Middle East. EVERY one of them. They are repressive, violent, and tyranical.
From every single example I have ever seen secular and Islamic (Islamic being the worse of the two), the Muslim world's solutions for government SUCK! Beheadings, Fatwahs, no free press, no rights for women, cronyism, etc. Islam is total shit for governing a people.
Our system DOES work. And thus Iraqis need a system that works and liberal democracy is that system.

To accomplish that they need us:
First, there was nothing they could do with Saddam Hussein in power, and nothing they could do to get rid of him. Second, as you can see, with all Islamic Fundamentalists like Al-Sadr and Zarqawi trying to take control of Iraq for themselves, Iraqis require a US presence to ensure that they don't fill the power vacuum and create a state like the Taliban or Iran.


NOW, am I the only one who noticed that this author is actually denouncing democracy? Not western style democracy, but democracy PERIOD.

Zahid, how would respond if I made a post like this:

'The Christian community must decisively reject the call for secular intervention in our country. We must build the argument that the Christian world has a duty to determine her politics according to the systems offered by Christianity alone. It is time to reclaim our political destiny.'
And then went on to say that democracy was the enemy of a true Christian nation?

I'm sorry man, but you called me a fascist the other day, and now here you are proposing Islamic Fascism.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Iraqis can think for themselves [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3063417 - 08/28/04 10:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

And you're proposing 'democratic fascism' - what if the majority of Iraqis want religion in their government? What if the majority of Iraqis do not want secular governments?

How would you feel if imperialists entered your land, and presented their political ideologies as the only acceptable ones for you to govern yourself by. Where do you get the right to tell Muslims that they cant have the influence of Shariah in their governments.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
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Re: Iraqis can think for themselves [Re: Zahid]
    #3063432 - 08/28/04 10:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

How can you talk about what the majority of Iraqis want, when under your system they can't even vote? Popular sovereignty contradicts autocracy.
If Iraqis really want an Islamic government they should be able to vote for it.

Furthermore, what about non-muslims in Iraq? What about Sunnis? Do they not matter?


Edited by Divided_Sky (08/28/04 11:07 PM)


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Iraqis can think for themselves [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3063460 - 08/28/04 11:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Who says they couldn't vote?

Sunnis, Shias, Sufis, Ismailis... under Shariah, anyone who proclaims La Ilaaha il Allah is a Muslim, and all these denoms do so.


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