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Offlinen0xious
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AI
    #3049568 - 08/25/04 07:22 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

lots of recent movies are related to machines gaining enough intelligence that they can make their own thoughts and choices, possibly fighting against their creators, humans. i was curious of peoples theories on this topic.

it seems stupid however also inevitable. technology is obviously going to improve and become even more widely used as time goes on but will machines ever have the capability to turn on humans.


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Its only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything.


You got the gun, I got a plant. Who's the criminal?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: AI [Re: n0xious]
    #3049589 - 08/25/04 07:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The capability? A resounding YES! Will a mechanical revolution occur? Probably it will be more of a civil rights movement. Any free thinking intelligent, sentient being deserves basic rights.


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OfflineScarfmeister
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Re: AI [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3049646 - 08/25/04 07:36 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

If they ever gain sentience in a human sense they will probably adopt concepts of morality etc.


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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Offlinen0xious
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Re: AI [Re: n0xious]
    #3049707 - 08/25/04 07:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, I had never thought of an intelligent machine adopting morality but that is likely


--------------------
Its only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything.


You got the gun, I got a plant. Who's the criminal?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: AI [Re: n0xious]
    #3049743 - 08/25/04 07:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, I think we will create AI at some point. The "results" of this creation depend a lot on how far down the road such an invention occurs. If it were to happen now, I think we would end up in a war with the AI...as it is currently in our nature to war with "rivals".

If we are lucky, the creation of AI will be far enough down the road that we may have a chance to learn past our more basic instincts and do away with much of war.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: AI [Re: trendal]
    #3049811 - 08/25/04 08:12 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

So what is the difference between a computer that performs exactly the same processes as a human brain? It wouldn't be alive just by virtue of simulating a brain, would it?

How does sentience arise?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: AI [Re: deafpanda]
    #3049841 - 08/25/04 08:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well that is a tricky subject, as we can't even come to an agreement yet on what is "alive"...and that's without bringing the added confusion of AI into the picture.

Personally, I think that AI will be such that we do not have to program any specific reactions into it. I think that AI, when it comes, will be beautiful in its simplicity. It will not be an extremely large "chunk of code" which we program to respond to any number of given stimuli...it will be a very small and precise set of code that grows of its own accord. I imagine the day we "turn on" AI we will not see a whole lot from that AI. We may even be in the preliminary stages of this now, with our neural networks and such. I think the AI will, for the most part, teach itself how to react to stimuli.

In less words: AI will be a self-organizing system.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineScarfmeister
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Re: AI [Re: trendal]
    #3049871 - 08/25/04 08:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

and it will be beautiful to behold


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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Invisiblejux
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Re: AI [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #3049899 - 08/25/04 08:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomnoob said:
If they ever gain sentience in a human sense they will probably adopt concepts of morality etc.




what is morality but an inherent set of logic that makes the creature more likely to successfully reproduce and hence populate the world with its so called morality?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: AI [Re: jux]
    #3050381 - 08/25/04 10:24 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Any advanced intelligence of this sort would be it's creator's children at heart, because we would imbue it with the ideals that we hold dear. I have heard theories that since mankind is incapable of evolving further naturally, due to our ability to control our environment, that computers and robotics are our next evolutionary step. Eventually our species would evolve from the organic beings we are into an inorganic species that continues to evolve through technology. It's not really that strange an idea.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: AI [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3054046 - 08/26/04 05:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I have heard theories that since mankind is incapable of evolving further naturally, due to our ability to control our environment



What control do you have over your environment, or anyone for that matter? Do you control preservatives in your food? The climate perhaps? Maybe the amount of carcinogenic (EM-)radiation or superbacteria, evolved through the overuse of antibiotics?

On the way from early primates to Homo Sapiens Sapiens, we've lost 12 teeth, because we've learned to cook our food, making it less hard to chew it. Seems to me in a few thousand years, humanity won't have any sharp teeth anymore, if it continues to eat as much fastfood as it does now.

There is room te evolve yet. Perhaps it's not as obvious to observe ourselves as it is observing our forebears in the (distant) past, but there is always cause for evolution.

As for AI, what if it thinks differently than we do, no matter how much we try to control how it thinks? What if it's basic thoughts and morals are totally different than ours? I'm not sure we'd want to go that way. It would be interesting for cognitive psychology (and uniting humanity against them if something goes wrong) though.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: AI [Re: trendal]
    #3054112 - 08/26/04 05:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, I think we will create AI at some point.

AI has ALREADY been created (and I did it among others), but the definition keeps morphing into something different. Here is the reason: we understand the mechanics behind the programs. As intelligence is seens as a mysterious and ephemeral X factor, anything that we can create therefore MUST not be it.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: AI [Re: Swami]
    #3054497 - 08/26/04 07:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I disagree.

The term "AI" is usually used to refer to a sentient algorithm or machine. To my knowledge, we have not created any sentient machines to date.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: AI [Re: Swami]
    #3054514 - 08/26/04 07:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

As a computer programmer I see the potential to create an intelligence equal our own in time. As more efficient languages and APIs become available our ability to create will increase exponentially. Imagine "Doom III" in 1982. Now it is a technological reality.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: AI [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3054535 - 08/26/04 07:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Neural networks, man! I think that's where the seed of AI is starting to germinate :wink:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: AI [Re: n0xious]
    #3054822 - 08/26/04 08:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I think machines already have taken over to a point.... I mean look they've got us by the balls dude!! Billions of people zone out in front of electronic devices for hours a day. I'm doing it right now... a slave to this machine and this whole fancy network - I do not know what I would do without it


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisibleraytrace
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Re: AI [Re: n0xious]
    #3067961 - 08/30/04 05:59 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

machines are tools, or at least should be viewed as such. to assign autonomy onto a machine is basically a psychological projection and a perspective that entails the danger of degrading natural life. with the current technology of software that is used since the founding of computer science, any complex enough software system is dammed to crash. a philosophical system that can accomodate the idea of equality between a man and a machine is dangerous as it has to be based on a rock solid and completely understandable idea of the universe, while the universe preferes to remain fluid and mysterious. btw the turing test is flawed and there is no objective test that can define sentience or intelligence. people of course are very prone to self deception.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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AI s/b Artificial Sentience [Re: n0xious]
    #3068549 - 08/30/04 12:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

A *conventional* computer cannot become sentient any more than it can produce random numbers... and for much the same reasons.

Computers are nothing more than a particular instantiation of an algorithm -- a list of instructions.  If such a construct could become sentient, then the same algorithm written on paper instead of RAM or implemented mechanically using springs, gears, and cogs instead of semiconductors must necessarily also be sentient.  Yet even the most hard-core proponent of Artificial Sentience (AS) would hesitate to suggest that a list of instructions on paper or a bunch of whirling mechanical parts could achieve sentience.


:thumbup:  Read:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...;o=&fpart=1

for a fascinating (and frightening) perspective on the source of sentience.


Footnote: By conventional, I mean a machine that functions based on principals other than those of quantum mechanics.  Quantum computing is on the horizon, though; those machines may eventually achieve sentience or produce random numbers but, unlike today's computers, they cannot be implemented mechanically and so are fundamentally different from the mindless algorithm-crunching machines of today.

Edit = typo


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (08/30/04 12:20 PM)


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: AI s/b Artificial Sentience [Re: Diploid]
    #3068766 - 08/30/04 01:11 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

So if you could accurately map out the human brain on a computer, the computer wouldn't be sentient? If not, what is the difference between the artificial and biological machine? What is the magic ingredient?


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: AI s/b Artificial Sentience [Re: deafpanda]
    #3068800 - 08/30/04 01:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

well it wouldn't be a computer if we mapped it out precisely....... the brain has biochemical reactions that are totally impossible on a silicon chip.

eventually though if the religious assholes get out of the way, we can probably eventually start to build brains from scratch, which I think would be a fascinating and freaky science.. who knows then we could try to hook them up to robotic arms and legs and see if it thinks anything of itself. Then when it does we'd be like "damn we created a fuckin freak man how sad.. look its got real feelings and emotions.. and its really creeping me out" and have it exterminated. Anybody remember that evil brain-creature from the ninja-turltes?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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