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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Does hate have a place in spirituality?
    #3048060 - 08/25/04 12:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

My spiritual experiences in life, both on and off drugs, have basically led me to equate spirituality and enlightenment with love. Over time, I have come to love all of existence. But I have come to wonder if hate has any positive role to play. I've tried considering this, but the more I think about it, the more I see hatred as a useless emotion. Does anyone care to prove me wrong?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3048067 - 08/25/04 12:22 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hatred certainly is useless. There is nothing that hatred can achieve that a level head can't, as far as I can see.


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Anonymous

Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3048090 - 08/25/04 12:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I think hate ultimately stems from fear, so in a spiritual sense, yes it's useless. All forms of fear are hurdles to overcome. For materialists, hate and fear serve purposes, mainly to protect the body and ego. But really in the eternal sense, hate serves no useful purpose. There are other 'negative' emotions though, that are useful, such as anger.


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3048113 - 08/25/04 12:36 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

No emotion is bad or good. I strongly believe it is how we apply our emotions that determines their moral status. Hate is, at least in our conceptual view of the world, the direct opposite of love. One cannot exist without the other. Ying and Yang isn't just a trendy cliche :P Hate must be embraced and analysed since it is a part of us and we must embrace every part of us if we are to know ourselves. It doesn't mean that we should use it to cause harm or suffering but to become more intimate with ourselves and the human condition in general.

I haven't given this enough thought yet to deem whether hate has any practical positive application but i'll mull over it.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3048117 - 08/25/04 12:38 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

most revolutions have been based in the hatred of tyranny.

most scientific inquiries have been made from the hatred of ignorance.

I really think this is a 'glass half empty/half full' kind of question. Some people are driven by negative emotions like fear and hate, and others are driven by positive emotions like love and hope. But both kinds of emotions can be applied towards positive things.

Does hate play a role in spirituality? I think so. For me, part of enlightenment has been the realization that all things that exist have purpose, including the things some may find unpleasant. To discount hate is to close one's mind to something that exists naturally. And I dont think that is enlightened at all.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3048128 - 08/25/04 12:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

most revolutions have been based in the hatred of tyranny.




Maybe, but the simple recognition that tyranny is not good and something should be done could have served the same purpose. The actual emotion of hatred played no necessary part.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3048130 - 08/25/04 12:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hate is an emotion everyone feels, says and thinks from time to time. We hate traffic jams, we hate certian foods, TV shows, extreme weather conditions, ideas and even people. Is it a positive emotion or enjoyable to feel? NO!

It can tell us a lot about ourselves though. In the case of traffic jams, it shows us where patience is lacking. In the case of people, it can show us what we hate about our own selves and where self love is lacking. In all the others, it comes down to persoanl preferences and we are entitled to them, however, if we go as far to feel hate for what we ourselves do not prefer, it can show us where we lack in appreciation for the all that is as it all has a purpose.

Hate isn't something we consciously choose to feel, but now and again we do because we are human. When we feel it, better to confront what it is showing us about ourselves and replace it with love and appreciation in that situation versus supressing it or denying it.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3048193 - 08/25/04 12:57 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I seriously have a hard time understanding people when it comes to hatred.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: deafpanda]
    #3048208 - 08/25/04 01:01 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deafpanda said:
Quote:

most revolutions have been based in the hatred of tyranny.




Maybe, but the simple recognition that tyranny is not good and something should be done could have served the same purpose. The actual emotion of hatred played no necessary part.




hmmm... I disagree. Logic is not enough motivation to pull a trigger that will end someone's life, even if it is entirely necessary.

Look at the US right now. I think its real obvious that the US has been in need of a revolution for quite some time. Logically it is obvious, but the people just arent feeling it yet. Once the government inflicts enough pain and that pain matures into anger, you can bet the people will take up arms. Hate and anger are catalysts for change.

Just like rage against the machine says: 'Anger is a gift.'


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3048241 - 08/25/04 01:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I agree Doc, hatred can serve important purposes like that but the downside is that innocents will always suffer. Hatred could be deemed a necessary evil in a few specific cases.


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3048256 - 08/25/04 01:10 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

They certainly are catalysts for change, but they can easily be catalysts for negative change (racism, increasing political polarisation etc).

My point is really that hatred obscures reason, it doesn't think out whether the end it is a means to is good or not. A good degre of emotional detachment is necessary to evaluate things reasonably.

However, it certainly is useful in giving people the adrenaline rush required to do battle.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: deafpanda]
    #3048269 - 08/25/04 01:13 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

And we all know battle is very useful... :smile:


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3048305 - 08/25/04 01:22 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hate is a pretty strong word. To hate one's self is not self denial, it is disease for example. Denial is much different than hate. While in Sunni Islam there is 'Love and Hate for the sake of Allah,' that word Hate is loosely interpreted from its original Arabic, and resembles denial more than hate. One is to 'hate the evil of ourselves,' and 'hate that which pulls one away from Allah' (often translated as 'Hate for Shaytaan\Satan'; if one looks at it more correctly and versed in Arabic in the slightest (Aliph, Ba, Ya, Seen, etc.) its appears as 'Deny the evil of ourselves,' and 'deny that which pulls one away from Allah,'. Marmaduke Pickthall, Abdullah Yusuf Ali, while good servants to English speaking Muslims, their work is growing ever so slightly out of date. Of any religion, Islam is probably the most misunderstood because it is lost in translation the most. I have even seen it worded as 'Love and Humility for Allah's sake!' - so my guess is, no - there is no place for hate in spirituality in the terms we're thinking of (in regard to hate).


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: Zahid]
    #3048637 - 08/25/04 03:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with DoctorJ. Hatred is a wasted emotion, but it can be a motivational tool to change the things that evoke that feeling.

Thee is a point for all emotions. These emotions, even negative emotions, serve an important purpose on a limited basis (as a tool for change). It's when one goes to far in focusing on these motions that it becomes unhealthy.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3048851 - 08/25/04 04:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

hate has no oppisite.there can be the lack of hate.
there is no oppisite to love.there can be a lack of love.
read the math and love post

but heres an example of what i'm saying

-5,-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2,3,4,5

lack of love------having love

one this is its self all the way
this is a very easy way to understand

the absolute value of 1=1
it looks like this |1|

the absolute value of -1=1
it looks like this |-1|

lets say love equaled 1

therefore
|1|=1
|-1|=1

both are love

there are no oppisites to anything
everything is itself,and stands alone by itself to an infinte degree.

people say red is the oppisite of blue.
thats not true when you consider a number line .
can you be more blue or less blue?
if your less blue,you don't become red
you just become less blue.
blue will never forget who they were,they will always be blue.

some people would say once you get to 0,thats where it ends,thats not true either.0 is where it all begins again.once you go past 0 into the negatives,your in a whole diffrent world.blue is still blue.maybe not what we would call blue,but definitly has a potential to become blue.

please read the thread The subject of Math and Love....What is 0?


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: tnecseda]
    #3048859 - 08/25/04 04:04 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, zero is infinite whereas all other numbers are finite.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3049007 - 08/25/04 04:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I think, the greater the love (was), the greater the hate (will be). So tnecseda is right. The amount of 'lacking love' is presented for us as 'hate'.
No love, no hate -
No women, no cry


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinetnecseda
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3049246 - 08/25/04 06:11 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

the lack of love has the abilty to inspire hate,when love is lacking,its not its stong powerful form.something like hate has the abilty to over power it.even other emotions and other ideas and feelings could over power when a lack of love is the situation.

but what i'm saying is that there can be love with out hate.


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Offlinen0xious
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3049393 - 08/25/04 06:48 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

if you are to ask this question you need to ask if any emotion has a place in spirituality. hate would not exist without love.


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Its only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything.


You got the gun, I got a plant. Who's the criminal?


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Offlinetnecseda
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Re: Does hate have a place in spirituality? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3049490 - 08/25/04 07:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

everything exists.how could there be no hate without love?
hate and love are two diffrent things,and are not oppisites.
they do things are not like each other,doesn't mean they're oppisites.


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