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OfflineWorf
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Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads
    #3039995 - 08/23/04 04:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5797164/

Bush said that all ads by outside groups should be halted, but did not necessarily condemn the swift boat ad and say they are wrong like kerry and mccain wanted.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: Worf]
    #3041651 - 08/23/04 11:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

they've already done their damage...

he's waited just long enough to get his cake and eat it too.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: afoaf]
    #3041661 - 08/23/04 11:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

If the damage was already done, why the call to denounce them?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Registered: 04/29/04
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: Worf]
    #3041891 - 08/24/04 12:34 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Also check out this article :smile:
SBVFT Member Admits He Has No Proof...
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A veteran who disputed Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry's Vietnam war record acknowledged on Sunday he had no proof to back his charge that Kerry fabricated the reports of enemy fire that won him two medals.

Speaking on "Fox News Sunday," Van Odell, a member of the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that has spearheaded a campaign against Kerry's service record, said his was one of seven eyewitness accounts and he was not being directed by President Bush's campaign.

He has charged that then Navy Lt. Kerry, a Swift boat commander, fabricated the "after-action" report saying he faced enemy fire on March 13, 1969, for which he was awarded the Bronze Star and his third Purple Heart for being wounded while pulling a fellow soldier to safety.

"I do not have a single document," Odell said. "I have the fact that I wasn't wounded in that 5,000 meters of fire that he wrote about."

"There was no enemy fire from either bank," he added.

The assertion was another broadside in a debate that has been raging for weeks, and with at least one CBS poll showing the issue cutting into Kerry's support among veterans, the Massachusetts senator has accused the group of collaborating with the Bush campaign and demanded Bush repudiate the ads.

Odell said he had met with Republican strategist Merrie Spaeth, a public relations consultant to his group, and once bought a home from Bob Perry, a large Republican donor from Texas and close associate of Karl Rove, the president's chief political adviser.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #3042005 - 08/24/04 01:00 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Do you realize what 5000 meters of fire is??? 3 miles of gun fire erupting from the bank. Don't you think it's odd that that not one other person sustained injury resulting from this. Nor did a single boat incure damage as a result of enemy fire.
Those VietCong must have been some terrible shots.

So he doesn't have any video tape to back it up, but the corroborating evidence is on his side. Who is more likely telling the truth?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Edited by HagbardCeline (08/24/04 01:01 AM)


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: Worf]
    #3043049 - 08/24/04 08:25 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

He was only in Nam long enough to get some campaign footage. He spent more time protesting the war, spreading lies about the men he fought with, and meeting with our enemy on foriegn soil than he actually did fighting it. Some war hero.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: Worf]
    #3043062 - 08/24/04 08:31 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I think these people (outside groups) have the right to claim anything they want to. Politicians do it so I see no difference here. I wish more groups would chime in and blast the numb-nuts running this country. Hell, Moveon.org does it and I see no problem at all.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (08/24/04 08:48 AM)


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3043126 - 08/24/04 09:06 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

> I see no problem at all.

The problem is the gray area between private group versus political campaign. For example, one of Bush's campaign volunteers was in the swift comercials... this really confuses the matter where election laws, and their possible violations, are concerned.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: Seuss]
    #3043147 - 08/24/04 09:24 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The problem is the gray area between private group versus political campaign.




The private sector has the same right to express their opinions as the political campaigns IMO. We've been listening to this "gray area" every single election.

Quote:

For example, one of Bush's campaign volunteers was in the swift comercials...




That really means nothing to me. If I volenteered to do a little work for the re-election of GWB that shouldn't stop me from expressing my opinion via the first amendment. These political campaign laws (about what a candidate's side can and can't say) are BS and stifle free speech. I don't neccessarily condone the swift boat adds (I also don't think that since you were in Vietnam that somehow makes you a good leader) but politicians do this sort of thing all the time, it would be nice to have the private person have a say.

Quote:

this really confuses the matter where election laws, and their possible violations, are concerned.




Maybe it's the laws that need to be changed. If I had the money to run adds blasting Kerry about something that he did, I should be able to do it up to the time of the election, NO time limitations.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3043380 - 08/24/04 10:55 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

At least he went to Vietnam, unlike Bush.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: daussaulit]
    #3043410 - 08/24/04 11:03 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

so what. Are you going to vote for a guy just because he went to vietnam?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3043442 - 08/24/04 11:15 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

so what. Are you going to vote for a guy just because he went to vietnam?




My vote usually goes to more attractive candidate or the one that can hold his breath the longest.

The longer they can hold their breath the better leader they will be. However this hasn't proven.... yet.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3043454 - 08/24/04 11:18 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

> That really means nothing to me. If I volenteered ...

I was using the example only to show how muddled things can get, not to push for Kerry.

> These political campaign laws (about what a candidate's side can and can't say) are BS and stifle free speech.

I do not know enough about campaign law to comment... but I don't disagree with you on this... I might not agree either, not sure...

> Maybe it's the laws that need to be changed.

What we really need are term limits on all federally elected positions (i.e. congress). Two terms and you are out, period. The problem is that politics has become an occupation rather than an obligation, and as such, has opened itself up to corruption on a massive scale.

> At least he went to Vietnam, unlike Bush.

I have to wonder why he volunteered to go to Vietnam when everybody else in their right mind was trying to avoid the place like the plague? I have a lot of respect for those that went when called to go. I have a lot of disrespect for those that used their family influence and money to avoid going when called. With Kerry, I would like to understand his motivation for wanting to serve in combat before judging him.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: daussaulit]
    #3043469 - 08/24/04 11:22 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

So you like killing helpless animals, burning villages and the like? I would much rather have someone who didn't go than someone who did and committed war crimes.

I heard a point last night that I hadn't thought about. Do you realize that Kerry is probably the most decorated soldier in the shortest time to EVER have served in the military?

He has changed his stories so many times, I don't think it's unwarranted to call them very improbable. When someone changes a story on you personally, what's your first (nearly always correct) impression?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: Seuss]
    #3043487 - 08/24/04 11:25 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

What we really need are term limits on all federally elected positions (i.e. congress). Two terms and you are out, period. The problem is that politics has become an occupation rather than an obligation, and as such, has opened itself up to corruption on a massive scale.

Right, but only one term limit. Too much effort is wasted on trying to reelected. Often they won't do what's best so as not to hurt their chances for reelection.

I have to wonder why he volunteered to go to Vietnam when everybody else in their right mind was trying to avoid the place like the plague? I have a lot of respect for those that went when called to go. I have a lot of disrespect for those that used their family influence and money to avoid going when called. With Kerry, I would like to understand his motivation for wanting to serve in combat before judging him.

Very puzzling indeed. I wonder, he had already graduated Yale when he went to Vietnam correct? It just seems more and more like his entire service was to jumpstart his political career.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #3043498 - 08/24/04 11:29 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm still looking for the mute candidate.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: Seuss]
    #3043544 - 08/24/04 11:38 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I was using the example only to show how muddled things can get, not to push for Kerry.




I know, i'm just saying that a volunteer shouldn't be excluded from this right.

Quote:

I do not know enough about campaign law to comment... but I don't disagree with you on this... I might not agree either, not sure...




I was refferring to the laws that state that certain groups can't have political ads after a certain date before the election. We can all thanks the McCain-Feingold law. Pure fucking stupidity from the both of them.

Quote:

What we really need are term limits on all federally elected positions (i.e. congress). Two terms and you are out, period. The problem is that politics has become an occupation rather than an obligation, and as such, has opened itself up to corruption on a massive scale.




I'm agree with you 100%

Quote:

> At least he went to Vietnam, unlike Bush.




I'd actually like kerry's record in congress to be discussed, I don't give a rats ass about his "war" record (all 4 months of it) when we're considering him for president.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleretread
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Registered: 07/14/04
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3043668 - 08/24/04 12:16 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It's interesting how one election it doesn't matter to the democrats that their candiate dodged the draft while the next campaign, service in Vietnam should be mandatory for election. I've spent more time in Vietnam than Kerry did, a whopping FOUR months of "combat".


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: retread]
    #3043691 - 08/24/04 12:24 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

It's interesting how one election it doesn't matter to the democrats that their candiate dodged the draft while the next campaign, service in Vietnam should be mandatory for election.




I was thinking about the same thing until I realized that the dodging of the draft shows a major character flaw that shows a blatant disreguard for the service itself. One can say that Bush did something similar only everything he did was apparantly legal. He never "dodged" the draft no matter how much digging into his military career.

Quote:

I've spent more time in Vietnam than Kerry did, a whopping FOUR months of "combat".




to give him the benefit of the doubt, 4 monthsd in Vietnam is not exactly easy, with that said it still doesn't prepare him to be a good president.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Bush calls for halt to swift boat vet ads [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #3043853 - 08/24/04 01:09 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

because not only does he get to inflict the damage but
now he also gets to look like a good christian by calling
for their end...


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