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InvisibleRavus
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Desire
    #3038511 - 08/23/04 04:21 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I was going to respond to a post in the Pub asking about what your dreams are... but then upon thinking of it I realize I don't really have any dreams. More than that, I don't even seem to have any noticeable desires. This has been the end result of my mindset since I was a young teen, combined with meditation and entheogens. Desires seem to fade away and you start to live in the moment, without wishing for the future or hating the past, as we so often do

So what are desires then? As a whole it seems many people would be much more content without desires, or would that just be unhealthy apathy and disattachment from the universe? Why do so many humans encourage the benefits of dreaming when the vast majority of people will be let down in their highest dreams? I prefer to be content and relaxed with the moment, not tense over whether the future will be as I plan it to be, or the past will ruin my chances to fulfill desires that will become insignificant when I die, and the rest of the human race one day follows, and then one day the universe

Desire: necessary to give birth to a dancing star, or simply unneeded stress?


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Desire [Re: Ravus]
    #3038514 - 08/23/04 04:22 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

desire is motivation to be desireless. / ?


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Desire [Re: BleaK]
    #3038530 - 08/23/04 04:41 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Why would desire be motivation to be desireless? To be desireless is like a dropping a rock you've been carrying around for years, you don't need to pick up a smaller rock to do it, just let go of it and walk on without stress


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
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Re: Desire [Re: Ravus]
    #3038597 - 08/23/04 05:38 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Desire is merely an untamed mind.Like an unleashed animal it runs all over creating problems.It wants everything.Why?Because it cant have it or doesnt have it.What does the untamed mind do with something once it gets it?Its content for a short time like a child at christmas but soon the item/thing get pushed aside and a new obsession takes hold and the cycle starts all over.Most people are slaves to their mind.Desire, intense emotion, false hunger, ego, hatred, greed, etc...the list goes on.

Living in the moment provides release from the wants of tomorrow and yesterday.If one tames the mind only the desires at the very moment matter.Much less stress and worry and need.One must learn to tame the mind guarding it carefully against the illusions of Desire, intense emotion, false hunger, ego, hatred, greed, etc.Intense emotion only causes grief and is usually inappropiate.The only intense emotions one should feel is love in its various forms.All others must be in moderation.

There's much more to wanting than to having.Wanting things keeps one happy and with goals.Having creates unhappiness and leaves nothing.One can have all the money and everything they want but soo they will become unhappy.The one with nothing is truly happiest.Why?No attachments to material items.Nothing to worry about materially.No fear of broken/lost items.No fear of robbery.No worries materially at all.

Desire is a trap which snares the foolhardy and keeps them tightly entrapped.One does not need desire.


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Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/


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Offlinesillysimon
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Re: Desire [Re: Ravus]
    #3038608 - 08/23/04 05:49 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

desire..theres two sides to it just like everything eles in the universe...to desire the infinite positve ..... thats my desire

stress? well depends on what you desire? do you desire something you cant have?


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In the dawn my toes are cold They spread their little trinkets on the ground In the hall By the closet door They creep into my bed without sound On a cube In a plastic egg A hundred fabric figures in a pile See them march Toward me And dance across the floor trippily Little faces keep no track of time Little faces speaking out in rhyme Little faces smiling in my mind Tiny doors For walking through sticky fingers clutch forbidden things the phone For talking through Sinking ships On a foamy sea That tumbles from the motion of filthy Little hands In the dark When eyes are wide listen to secrets that I tell In a ball On tiny beds Or beneath them where the shadow people dwell moon Beams split the night Leave bars of yellow pasted on their faces As they drift into a dream


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Desire [Re: sillysimon]
    #3040486 - 08/23/04 07:38 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Stress does not just come from not attaining your object of desire. Even if you get what you desire, you will worry about whether or not it will be stolen. When it gets damaged, you will worry and throw more money at it to fix it. When it finally breaks for good, you will stress even more, as your object of desire has gone. Desire inevitably will lead to stress, because of its finite and fragile objects that represent it

As for there being duality to all things in the universe, I disagree on that. There is not "good" desire and "bad" desire, but there is just the levels of desire, the actions of desire, and the attainment of desire. It is all one that we make seem good or bad by our own ego and prejudices


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineCaRnAgECaNdYS
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Re: Desire [Re: Ravus]
    #3041342 - 08/23/04 10:43 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I thought this post was about me!

























Hehe..JK!


For me desire is motivation. Motivation do go after something that makes me happy. It's like setting goals for myself. The things I desire in life will ultimately make me reach my goals and make me a happy girl!


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The secret to being funny is to say smart things stupidly, or is it stupid things smartly? Whatever..it's not rocket surgery...or something like that.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Desire [Re: CaRnAgECaNdY]
    #3041949 - 08/24/04 12:46 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

No, we use PMs to talk about you behind your back.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Desire [Re: Swami]
    #3042014 - 08/24/04 01:04 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Shut up, you're gonna ruin everything


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OfflineCaRnAgECaNdYS
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Re: Desire [Re: deff]
    #3042031 - 08/24/04 01:11 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

  :tongue:


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The secret to being funny is to say smart things stupidly, or is it stupid things smartly? Whatever..it's not rocket surgery...or something like that.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Desire [Re: Swami]
    #3042038 - 08/24/04 01:14 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I think we're still good...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Desire [Re: deff]
    #3042072 - 08/24/04 01:27 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Shhh - check your messages.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Desire [Re: Swami]
    #3042096 - 08/24/04 01:32 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah she seems like a very nice girl to me too


Edited by deff (08/24/04 01:38 AM)


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OfflineCaRnAgECaNdYS
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Re: Desire [Re: Swami]
    #3042098 - 08/24/04 01:33 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Hey,

Isn't there a forum for off-topic discussion?

I say we swing on by there!  :smirk:


Or are we still talking about desire!!  :heart:


--------------------

The secret to being funny is to say smart things stupidly, or is it stupid things smartly? Whatever..it's not rocket surgery...or something like that.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Desire [Re: deff]
    #3042114 - 08/24/04 01:37 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Definitely out of bounds there Deff. :shake:  Delete now before the mods chew your ass or Desiree slaps you silly.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Desire [Re: Ravus]
    #3042127 - 08/24/04 01:40 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Did that cross your character's exhibition of morality?


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OfflineCaRnAgECaNdYS
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Re: Desire [Re: deff]
    #3042130 - 08/24/04 01:41 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

  :pimpslap:


--------------------

The secret to being funny is to say smart things stupidly, or is it stupid things smartly? Whatever..it's not rocket surgery...or something like that.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Desire [Re: CaRnAgECaNdY]
    #3042136 - 08/24/04 01:44 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks a lot swami...

:doh:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Desire [Re: deff]
    #3042156 - 08/24/04 01:51 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Nice correction. I am proud of you.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinedeff
mysticlove
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Re: Desire [Re: Swami]
    #3042167 - 08/24/04 01:55 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

do i get ice cream now?1


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Desire [Re: deff]
    #3042184 - 08/24/04 02:00 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

No, that just balanced out the negative Karma to zero. To get ice cream, you need positive Karmic points.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Desire [Re: Swami]
    #3042198 - 08/24/04 02:04 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Darn, this karma thing almost seems selfish. Wait... maybe I could so some nice stuff and then be rewarded with the sweet nectar of ice cream :drooling:


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OfflineCaRnAgECaNdYS
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Re: Desire [Re: deff]
    #3042637 - 08/24/04 04:03 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

  :hug:


--------------------

The secret to being funny is to say smart things stupidly, or is it stupid things smartly? Whatever..it's not rocket surgery...or something like that.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Desire [Re: CaRnAgECaNdY]
    #3042647 - 08/24/04 04:06 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

No, he wanted something sweet.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineCaRnAgECaNdYS
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Re: Desire [Re: Swami]
    #3042653 - 08/24/04 04:07 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

My dear,

My touch is sweet no matter how it's recieved!


--------------------

The secret to being funny is to say smart things stupidly, or is it stupid things smartly? Whatever..it's not rocket surgery...or something like that.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Desire [Re: CaRnAgECaNdY]
    #3042663 - 08/24/04 04:12 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

You know what kind of a Doubting Thomas I am. I cannot merely take your word for it...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineCaRnAgECaNdYS
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Re: Desire [Re: Swami]
    #3042669 - 08/24/04 04:15 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Then you'll always wonder!


--------------------

The secret to being funny is to say smart things stupidly, or is it stupid things smartly? Whatever..it's not rocket surgery...or something like that.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Desire [Re: CaRnAgECaNdY]
    #3042680 - 08/24/04 04:19 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

No, I have a Buddhist philosophy and have already moved on. The past is dead and desire leads to suffering...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineCaRnAgECaNdYS
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Re: Desire [Re: Swami]
    #3042696 - 08/24/04 04:26 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

No, desire leads to happiness if taken all the way!
Don't ever give up on your dreams and DESIRES!!

Unfollowed desires lead to suffering!


--------------------

The secret to being funny is to say smart things stupidly, or is it stupid things smartly? Whatever..it's not rocket surgery...or something like that.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Desire [Re: CaRnAgECaNdY]
    #3042712 - 08/24/04 04:34 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Unfollowed desires are still desires. Dreams and desires will may make a man happy for a week; a lack of them may make him happy for a lifetime


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinedeff
mysticlove
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Re: Desire [Re: Ravus]
    #3043600 - 08/24/04 11:55 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Take the $20,000 Have-Sex-With-Swam Challenge! Please, he's beggin you...


A 'little' less off-topic. Desires are the pre-emptive physical ripple caused by our own physical existence. They can be viewed as a design trait - similar to DNA - as both unfold events in the physical. Desires themselves are not good or bad, like everything they are neutral. However - if you subjectively view 'suffering' as bad, then cease all desires at once. Wait... unless it's your desire to cease suffering. Hmm.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Desire [Re: Ravus]
    #3044647 - 08/24/04 04:42 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Desire ?!?

Hell I heard of that once before...

Anything good came out of this ?


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Desire [Re: deff]
    #3044656 - 08/24/04 04:45 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

$20,000 for foo-foo?  :rolleyes: $200 - maybe...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
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Re: Desire [Re: deff]
    #3044668 - 08/24/04 04:49 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

They can be viewed as a design trait




I highly disagree.It can be proven to be a learned behaviour.In america we are taught from a young age that money,beautiful women and great cars and items are very desireable and should be desired and sought after.Now you can also teach a child to be content with what they have and desire nothing.If a child were to be raised in an entirely neutral and natural environment with tech. and other inventions and materialistic items,the child would be completely content with what it has and not desire anything.


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Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
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Re: Desire [Re: Swami]
    #3044677 - 08/24/04 04:52 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Arent there a bit to many zeros in that 200 swami? :smoking:


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Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Desire [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3044690 - 08/24/04 04:55 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Depends upon the item being bid upon.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Re: Desire [Re: Ravus]
    #3044966 - 08/24/04 05:57 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

without desire I sit motionless content with the peace

Imagine a glass half full of smoke. That is desire.
Imagine a glass full of milk. What is it?

How sad it is that I should ever be drawn to another through lust. I unknowingly become the trickster, caught up in a game whos name is desire. Always unaware of the greater reward, a connection so real, a bond so true.


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get it all together get like birds of a feather


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Desire [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #3047214 - 08/25/04 03:21 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

"I highly disagree.It can be proven to be a learned behaviour."

Our design does not stop at birth. Of course experience shapes our own beliefs and desires, even more so than genetics in my opinion. I included this as part of the design that went into the existance of the you here now.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Desire [Re: Ravus]
    #3047229 - 08/25/04 03:25 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I don't understand: with desire people are miserable because they don't have what they want, but without it what would motivate you to ANYTHING at all? If you wanted nothing, why even get out of bed?


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OfflineCaRnAgECaNdYS
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Re: Desire [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3047248 - 08/25/04 03:32 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
I don't understand: with desire people are miserable because they don't have what they want, but without it what would motivate you to ANYTHING at all? If you wanted nothing, why even get out of bed?





Exactly. Desire>Motivation>Goals>Happiness

One leads to the other.
Desire is my motivation.


--------------------

The secret to being funny is to say smart things stupidly, or is it stupid things smartly? Whatever..it's not rocket surgery...or something like that.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Desire [Re: CaRnAgECaNdY]
    #3047260 - 08/25/04 03:36 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Um, I'm sorry, but from my experience desire -> suffering. This doesnt mean you can't do anything at all, but that you shouldn't feel a 'need' for things like many people do. This leads to disapointment, loss, ect.


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OfflineCaRnAgECaNdYS
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Re: Desire [Re: deff]
    #3047274 - 08/25/04 03:42 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I think expectations and lack of will lead to disappointment.


--------------------

The secret to being funny is to say smart things stupidly, or is it stupid things smartly? Whatever..it's not rocket surgery...or something like that.


Edited by Desiree (08/25/04 03:42 AM)


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Desire [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3047410 - 08/25/04 04:42 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Life is not desire. Desire is a part of life. There is a deeper part of us that gets revealed once superficial desire is peeled off. Just because there is no desire it does not mean you will just suddenly stop and waste away. It just means you follow the most natural course of action, you stop pursuing the useless, stop having remorse and good and evil and motivation and amotivation. You simply are, and follow the present path as it is appears, not regretting the past or desiring the future

Again, you don't need desire to stop suffering to stop suffering, as some would say would bring a catch 22. Simply because desire can be stopped by letting it go, and with letting desire go you let suffering go. Suffering clings to desire like darkness clings to a deep cave. Even if you have any light to create a small space of vision around you, it will eventually die and the darkness will again consume you, simply because the light, the objects of your desire, are temporary and fleeting


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
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Re: Desire [Re: CaRnAgECaNdY]
    #3048119 - 08/25/04 12:39 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Desiring nothing does not equate to no will to do anything.Those who have yet to experience life without being full of desires will not understand unless they experience it for themselves.Being desireless is a state of contentment and happiness.Imagine being content with all material things and not caring whether you lose it or whether it gets stolen or not.This does not mean we have no will,no goals,no ambition.

Desire is defined as:1. The natural longing that is excited by the enjoyment or the thought of any good, and impels to action or effort its continuance or possession; an eager wish to obtain or enjoy.

An expressed wish; a request; petition.

Anything which is desired; an object of longing.

Excessive or morbid longing; lust; appetite.

Syn. Wish; appetency; craving; inclination; eagerness; aspiration; longing.

Now simply wants/needs are not desire.Desire would be wanting something in such a way that it disrupts the emotional mind or one's life in soime way no matter how small.Now the desireless may think,I should get some food,my body is hungry.But its not the same as,I could really go for a double cheeseburger(or whatever food) and I wish I had one (drool) (and then they enter into daydreaming which is disruptive).Simple wants/needs differ greatly from desire.Wanting/needing is mere knowing one should do or get something but remaining unaffected by it where as desire is very disruptive emotionally and mentally and disrupts aspects of one's life usually causing grief,desire,or some sort of emotion or emotional disturbance.I hope I have mad ethis clear for those who didnt understand the difference.Desires spawns negativity and suffer where as the desireless spawn nothing.

These days the meanings of words are so blurred they all mean the same thing and this causes much confusion. :smoking:


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Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/


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Re: Desire [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3048228 - 08/25/04 01:05 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Great post, very similar to my views on desire. You mentioned hunger however, but I think that too is often overly desired. We don't need near as much food as most people consume. People will even 'suffer' from missing a meal in a day, when it's not even a necessity to eat at all that day, or week. People often confuse their 'wants' with their 'needs', which shows an even stronger desire - and ultimately a worse suffereing when the "need" is unavailable. (ie- "I need some methamphetamines. Oh shi...")

Seriously though, there is absolutely nothing we need. Sure you could say food and shit, but you do not need to live, you want to.


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