Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds UK
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Libertarians and DWI [Re: Tao]
    #3038459 - 08/23/04 01:48 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

It is not a problem, but it is an area that requires considerable thought. This is the reason why the philosophy of law is such a complex one. It takes little thought to verify that the initiation of force is unethical, but a lot of thought and review and careful phrasing to translate that fundamental principle into an objective body of law containing detailed and specific wording which can be appropriately applied in a wide variety of cases which differ slightly in their details. Even then, reasonable people may disagree on the exact interpretation of a specific law, which is why there are such things as judges, juries, courts of appeal, and the Supreme Court.

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCyber
Ash
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 1,476
Loc: Dearborn Michigan
Last seen: 10 months, 15 days
Re: Libertarians and DWI [Re: ]
    #3038705 - 08/23/04 06:35 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
So answer me this, If it is not a right then what makes an automobile different from a horse and carriage? You only have to have a license to drive a automobile. A horse and carrage does not require a license.

again, that decision (like the others) refers to the right of travel, not driving. it says nothing about driving.




Although your argument appears prima-facie it does not hold up to scrutiny.

You are trying to split a hair, sounds like Clintons "That depends on what your definition of 'is' is."

From the dictionary.

driving = To traverse in a vehicle

traverse = To travel or pass across, over, or through.

You are trying to justify restricting a natural right "The Right To Travel" based only on the mode that is chosen to travel.

This is the equivalent of justifying the abridgment of the right to free speech by saying Although you have a right to free speech, you do not have a right to transmit that speech over the internet. Because people can be permanently injured or even killed by the ideas that are transmitted over the internet (how to make bombs, guns, drugs etc), there are few people, if any at all, who can fully compensate for damages caused by the transmission of ideas over the internet. it's a little too late to start regulating something once someone's already dead.

Edited by Cyber (08/23/04 08:17 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Libertarians and DWI [Re: Cyber]
    #3038985 - 08/23/04 09:38 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Mushmaster is not "splitting hairs" at all. There is a world of difference between travelling as a passenger in a vehicle (be it a train, bus, streetcar, airliner, ocean liner, or automobile) and being the operator of that vehicle.

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCyber
Ash
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 1,476
Loc: Dearborn Michigan
Last seen: 10 months, 15 days
Re: Libertarians and DWI [Re: Phred]
    #3039081 - 08/23/04 10:15 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Mushmaster is not "splitting hairs" at all. There is a world of difference between travelling as a passenger in a vehicle (be it a train, bus, streetcar, airliner, ocean liner, or automobile) and being the operator of that vehicle.




Ok, so you are saying that I have a right to travel so long as I am not opperating an automobile (Something I own and is my private property) on a public road (Something I paid for with my tax dollars and have a right to use) because I do not have a right to use a machine I own with out the permission of the government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Libertarians and DWI [Re: Cyber]
    #3039148 - 08/23/04 10:38 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cyber said:
Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Mushmaster is not "splitting hairs" at all. There is a world of difference between travelling as a passenger in a vehicle (be it a train, bus, streetcar, airliner, ocean liner, or automobile) and being the operator of that vehicle.




Ok, so you are saying that I have a right to travel so long as I am not opperating an automobile (Something I own and is my private property) on a public road (Something I paid for with my tax dollars and have a right to use) because I do not have a right to use a machine I own with out the permission of the government.



You have every right to use a machine you own on your own property. However, if you use public roads which everyone shares, you have no such right.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Libertarians and DWI [Re: silversoul7]
    #3039183 - 08/23/04 10:53 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Silversoul7 writes:

You have every right to use a machine you own on your own property. However, if you use public roads which everyone shares, you have no such right.

Silversoul nails it.

The government cannot stop you from driving your car or pickup truck or tractor or whatever all over your farm, for example. As a matter of fact, farm vehicles need not even have license plates -- unless they are travelling on public roads. Similarly, you need not have a driver's license to operate such vehicles on your own farm -- unless, again, you take one onto a public road.

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Libertarians and DWI [Re: silversoul7]
    #3039462 - 08/23/04 12:13 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
This guy also said that ALL gun laws should be abolished, and that you should be able to buy a rocket proppeled grenade launcher if you want to, and again only be held accountable AFTER killing somebody.



Also not an area of complete agreement. Libertarians believe that people have the right to bear arms, not artillery.



Sort of a conundrum there. Perhaps the most important reason the framers guaranteed our right to bear arms was to 'alter or abolish our government should it ever become destructive of it's ends.' I am a strong believer in Natural Rights theory, that by nature a man has the right to do whatever it is he wishes so long as he does not initiate force or fraud against another. However, applying Reductio ad Absurdum to this leaves us with the result of private citizens and/or groups of private citizens freely owning Nuclear Weapons. Personally, I believe it is the duty of even a liberty-based government(such as I desire) to not guarantee(deny) such a right. I realize the counter-argument is that this opens the door to so many other horrible things that government can and does perpetrate. Regardless, the nature of Nuclear Weapons(and other such weapons) is such that if I could have my ideal government tommorow I would absolutely pass laws against owning such devices and would instead leave the duty of preventing the erosion of liberty that such a law may lead to in the hands of the people.

Rocket-propelled Grenade launchers, while obviously not close to Nuclear Weapons as far as destructive capacity, are a difficult issue to decide in and of themselves. The real problem with their legalization is that their falling into the wrong hands is SO much more devestating that of a standard rifle. The counter-argument to THAT is that the 'wrong hands' will find these weapons regardless of their legality. On this issue I think I would decide in favor of an individuals right to act against a government turned tyrannical, though I need to think more on the topic.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Libertarians?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Libertine 14,598 156 08/17/08 05:28 PM
by ScavengerType
* Why I'm not a libertarian
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )
DoctorJ 13,751 174 06/20/04 10:11 PM
by Papaver
* Libertarians on Abortion DigitalDuality 942 13 09/02/04 12:34 PM
by Evolving
* Libertarianism and my .sig
( 1 2 3 all )
unbeliever 3,888 41 10/05/04 04:58 PM
by Ancalagon
* Libertarian position on imprisonment? Aldous 697 7 09/27/04 08:56 PM
by hound
* Why is there no mainstream love for libertarians?
( 1 2 all )
love2shpongleIRL 2,083 34 11/24/11 02:27 AM
by fireworks_god
* The Libertarian implications of traffic laws
( 1 2 all )
Phred 1,777 32 08/22/04 02:34 PM
by Phred
* Libertarian: Ron Paul
( 1 2 all )
Bridgeburner 3,905 32 11/29/07 12:37 AM
by pooppoop

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
1,518 topic views. 2 members, 9 guests and 18 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.026 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.