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Offlineexclusive58
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LIVE and SHUT UP (or the cerebral part of my trip)
    #3022470 - 08/19/04 10:18 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well I just had a mushroom trip before yesterday, and I thought I'd be posting something along the line of Gartoc's "Continuously questionning the universe" post, because that's what i do and this was extremely intensified during the trip, but I decided that I'm going to follow SS7's advice which is to talk about the thoughts i had during my trip.

So this isn't going to be like a common trip report about what was done, but rather about what was going on in my head. So come on in, take a peek...

I split 6 grams of dried mexicans with a very good friend of mine who is practically the only person i dare to get all philosophical with and all (besides you guys  :wink:). It was my 5th time and his 1st. The setting was perfect: nature.
I noticed that the closer i was getting to the peak of the trip, the deeper my thoughts would get. After about an hour and a half after ingestion, I told my friend i wanted to kill myself because i couldn't stop thinking. My thoughts revolved around the universe, and the life and consciousness within it. My thought process was basically like this: I'd get in detail about the 'HOW?' of it all and i'd get it down, it seemed like, and in consequence i would wonder about the 'WHY?'. This is what was killing me. I couldn't figure out Why we were here, what is the final purpose of life, what are we getting at. And i felt that there was an answer to these questions. It was like i wasn't being told something. I felt like an experiment...no, rather like  humanity was just a big crop, and we are on the verge of being harvested.

I asked my friend all these WHY? questions, and he told me that i think too much, and his advice was to stop thinking and just LIVE. That was very good advice, and I think that this is the best answer anyone can get (for now), but still, I wasn't satisified.

We went for a walk and i tried to stop thinking. We embraced nature. We started talking about the simplest things such as trees, grass, and bugs and everything was mesmerizing. By then, 2 hours had gone by and the visual part of the trip was pretty much over, so we smoked a fat J.
Now you all know that when you "understand" everything as you do on shrooms, when you see everything as we should always see it: as new, you can't help but talk about what you are experiencing because you feel it is so important. The strange thing is, each time me or my friend would try to engage in a pseudo-philosophical discussion about that feeling, communication instantly became very difficult. Our language would just block. We both knew we were experiencing the same thing, yet it seemed we couldn't talk about it. Not only this, it also put us in a negative mood, kinda how you feel when you're on a bad trip. So when we tried to talk, incomprehension came along, it snapped us out of our undescribable good shroomy feeling, and we had to be quiet.
Basically, by talking about life etc, it got us out of tune with it. And by staying quiet for a couple minutes, the "in sync with everything" feeling came back again, and we had to talk about it and felt weird again. This cycle went around about 10 times.

We realized this and we concluded that we should sit down  and that we shouldn't talk. It was like if the mushroom was teaching us something. It was teaching us a form of meditation. The way this meditation went was to listen to all the sounds we could hear, such as the wind blowing through the trees, the birds singing, the cars driving off in the distance...and concentrate on a single one of them.
This meditation was incredibly enriching. I felt like i was LIVING to the max. I felt like my awareness was "growing".

But after awhile, i couldn't stop thinking again. Meditation got me thinking about why i should meditate. I was at awe with my thoughts, i was smiling at how profound they were. And plus all this meditation tied in with my previous thoughts, with the WHY? of it all. Because if the best thing you can do is to LIVE, and if the most effective way to live is to meditate, and if i feel like I'm growing when i'm meditating, and if i feel that this growth is part of the evolution process, where the fuck are we going to?
How can you live without knowing?
I guess the only way to find out is to grow even more by living.

Amusingly, i thought: "Existence is authoritative. It tells you to LIVE and to SHUT UP".
And the shrooms were persuasive: when i talked to my friend about this again, the bad feeling came again, and we'd have to meditate again.

By the time the shrooms started wearing off, the "ego struggle" was disappearing along with them. The shrooms made me understand the incredible spiritual benefits of meditation, and it got me motivated to be regular with my meditation. From now on, i'm going to stop being a slacker at it.
On the other hand, i still don't know why. the truth is out there.


Thanx for readin :smile:, i hope some of you feel what i'm tryin to say, and if you got opinions, advices or whatever, feel free to post 'em. I'd love to have something to think about (or to not think about) that's related to this for my next trip.
Peace


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: LIVE and SHUT UP (or the cerebral part of my trip) [Re: exclusive58]
    #3022546 - 08/19/04 10:54 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I recently tripped and can relate to your experience of being unable to communicate what it is you feel at the moment, and having to just let go of trying to describe it and just keep experiencing it.


--------------------
You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: LIVE and SHUT UP (or the cerebral part of my trip) [Re: exclusive58]
    #3022559 - 08/19/04 10:59 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yer, my second trip over easter was at a beach with two of my mates. We sat around for (what I found out later to be about 2 or 3 hours) in a circle on the sand with the waves very close and the only real words we spoke we an occasional "how" or "why" or other things but then we'd stop cos we'd realise that language isn't the answer :P


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: LIVE and SHUT UP (or the cerebral part of my trip) [Re: exclusive58]
    #3022653 - 08/19/04 11:39 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I like the meditation you were taught by the MshRm
it takes you past linearity so you can better begin to appreciate the complex dimensionality of this existence.

Our culture hosts a dysfunctional type of investigative question - quite suitable to courtroom drama, military operations and simplified household politics, but never satisfactory in a substantive way.

This dysfunctional question is "WHY?" - it presumes a single right answer and requires causality to be strictly linear and in terms of a fully known universe - all of which has never been true. It confounds itself while seeming to aid the questioning mind.

The question also makes it easy for suicide to seem logical by imposing false linearity and false causality.

I got more complaints about "WHY" type questions than any other type of mental endeavour, except in the case of 2 yearoldds who are playing at relating with adults and learning at the same time (the key word here is "playing"). As far as I'm concerned, a two year old can spend all afternoon with me using WHY questions.

You will do better to attempt to rephrase the questioning energy in terms of "HOW" and "WHAT" skipping assumptions of causality and assignations of guilt, and skipping false interpretations of necessity; and you will then also learn more about how things are (inter)connected.

Meantime spending time with a 2 yearold is a great thing to do if you miss the "WHY?" type question.


Edited by redgreenvines (08/19/04 11:40 AM)


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: LIVE and SHUT UP (or the cerebral part of my trip) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3022673 - 08/19/04 11:50 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Although I can understand your point, I think its important to ask why.  Otherwise you limit your understanding of the world to a framework similar to modern science - explaining how things happen while ignoring why they do. Just because there is often no straight answer to real questions of why doesn't mean we should behave like so many scientists and pretend it doesn't exist :P Without "why" there would be no philosophy, spirituality or religion... its up to you whether you think that trio has benefited mankind or not.

Questions can be asked for the sake of asking them without requiring an answer to be fulfilling. At least for me  :stoned:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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now I am playing with you [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3022692 - 08/19/04 11:57 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Why?

( eventually, if I ask it enough, I will learn by re-interpretation, but not from the tangled responses, "What" is actually bothering you(science), what is meaningful to you (philosophy) & what heals your soul (religion) )


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: now I am playing with you [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3022772 - 08/19/04 12:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

But why find out what is meaningful to you if you don't know why it is?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: now I am playing with you [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3022872 - 08/19/04 12:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

what?


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: now I am playing with you [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3022884 - 08/19/04 12:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

why?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: now I am playing with you [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3023059 - 08/19/04 01:28 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

just trying to help out,
was there something you wanted a clearer picture of?


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: now I am playing with you [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3023195 - 08/19/04 01:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

lol, no, i'm just kidding around. thought you were too.

basically my point was the only reason what in my life is meaningful to me is because i know (even if in a very vague way) why it is meaningful to me. For instance, exploring my consciousness is meaningful to me because consciousness is the ground of being.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: now I am playing with you [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3023415 - 08/19/04 02:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

really?
I would avoid making bets on it -
meaning for me is resonance attuning to anything. being alive is full of a constant flux of meaning(s).
I think you are attaching shells of abstraction, and allowing those symbols to stand for meaning almost like a dictionary: but meaning is endless dynamic connections not mere pairing of concepts, in this way you shortchange thought, and weaken your convictions as well.
just don't ask me why, this is not a 2 year old context of play.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: LIVE and SHUT UP (or the cerebral part of my trip) [Re: exclusive58]
    #3023423 - 08/19/04 02:34 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The part you highlighted in bold about humanity being one big crop about to be harvested caught my attention.

Here's where i get to play positive skeptic. he he he

There are these tales that have been flying around since ancient times about a race of ET's who were doing just that, creating fear and what not to harvest human negative emotion to source a sense of power from. The reason being is that they cut themselves off from source within and became totally mental beings, some even call them metalic beingings, as they are suppose to be emotionless.

I have a lot of problems with this story in itself because all it does is promote fear. Since I have become aware of it I have been moving to make sense of it from a broader perspective.

On the one hand, humans do it to each other all of the time. They instill fear in others to gain a sense of power. When we fear something and make it out to be more then us we give our power to it to be used against us. It happens at S&P weekly.

With that said, these ETs are either bogus archetypes thrown into the mix to get us to see that in our own selves or the stories are true and a lot of us are carrying gentetic and or subconscious memory of this. Supposedely, those ET's have incarnated at this time to heal that crap up by being on the other end of it and by spilling the beans of what they were doing and why as a part of their redemption.

Maybe this shit keeps bugging you because you have a radical cosmic past to make peace with.

Some times I wonder if everyone having these experiences and memories only are because they were programmed into us so we could play out all sorts of duality and separation dramas in this realm of illusion. That makes me think it really never happened. But I have to wonder, weho the fuck did the programming? Did we program our DNA just as benevolent spirit beings before we jumped in?

This one gets my vote because it gives me the greatest sense of empowerment over the situation. To know that we are not victims but rather the creators of the programs to experience victimization takes fear, helplessness and hopelessness out of the mix.

To understand, that a part of the plan was to experience complet separation from source and to rebuild the bridge piece by piece to bring source spirit fully into dense matter makes sense to me. There are a lot of other reasons for it.

I laugh when I sometimes say that I love to see the gods fall into the hands of their own creations. I'm one of the ones who has memories of this shit. I've had life times where I played various roles from all sides of the playing field.

I want to know where the bleep these memories come from. Did they really happen in some past incarnation or did my spirit self program them in because there is no other way to experience fear and separation in truth and we wanted to experience it. In other words, and either way, it's all Bull Shit when you pull perspective far enough back.

What happens in illusion really happens there, but is bullshit from a unity perpsective of interconnected oneness sharing the same source of life force energy. Just because some MO FO chooses to experience forgetfulness doesn't mean he's not what he is beyond that. Its all mind tricks we play on ourselves and each other when we forget who we are in an eternal divine sense, equated with the whole of the ONE.

Since you highlighted human harvesting , I had to bring this all up because I doubt the numerous others here who know what I am talking about would.

Robert Monroe has some good books out on this that are a bit tamer with out the ET's. He calls the harvested energy loosh. He was an awesome explorer of spirit and consciousness. He found that with the use of certain frequencies being played through head phones while he slept he could go anywhere through out the dimensions and even revistit the same places. He could hook groups up to hear the same frequency tone and they would all awaken sharing the same story of where they went to while being kept a part without being able to coroborate stories. Some far out shit is going on in this world and beyond it.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: LIVE and SHUT UP (or the cerebral part of my trip) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3023599 - 08/19/04 03:13 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Wow, that's a better reply than what i could have hoped for!  :thumbup:

Isn't there a chronological order in which questions are usually asked in order to discover something, which goes from WHAT? to HOW? to WHY?
And if there  is an answer to the questions i raised during my trip, wouldn't it be logical for me to ask these WHY? questions since we kinda got the 'HOW?' down already? I mean isn't it about time for humans to start asking why questions and for them to start getting some kind of answer?

I see though, how WHY? can be viewed as a dysfunctional question, does that mean that it is not to be asked?
Or is it that the answer is above the capacity of our language?

Anyways, chilling with a two year old is a great advice, next time i meet one i'll remember about this.

BTW, I presume you've already been asked this many times, but what do you do in life? (haha..notice how a WHAT? question was my first step towards knowing you better  :wink:)


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: LIVE and SHUT UP (or the cerebral part of my trip) [Re: exclusive58]
    #3023845 - 08/19/04 04:10 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I bet if you were tripping really hard in the company of a 2 year old, you would behave like you would if you were with another tripping adult :P I'd love to try it out...jst gotta find an irresponsible parent :smile:


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: LIVE and SHUT UP (or the cerebral part of my trip) [Re: exclusive58]
    #3023958 - 08/19/04 04:36 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

from WHAT? to HOW? to WHY?




Depends which field of studies you're talking about.

Ethical questions often ask the "why" first, since motivation plays a big part in it. It's not what you do, it's much less how you do it, it's all in the motivation. The difference between murder and manslaughter lies in the 'why' question, which should be asked first.

Where scientific questions are concerned, the what question is asked first, usually. However, in some cases (dissipative structures, for example) the 'how' is answered before the 'what'. To illustrate: it's possible to predict the occurence of currents within a body of water that's being heated (leading to the "how"), but it's impossible to say in which direction the current cells will circulate before the first molecule starts moving (the "what" in this case).

To get back to your post, your example does seem most fit to approach with "what" first, then "how" and then "why". Are you sure you've got the "how" down? As for the "why", existance has no motivation, and if there is one, we can't figure it out because we're too limited, both in perception and dimensions.
There is, however, a meaning of life for each individual: the one you determine yourself. If you feel you're asking too many "why" questions , I'd suggest meditating on what you think is important in your life, "what" you want to live for, "how" you wanna go about it and then ask yourself the why's. Personal "why"-type questions are easier to ask if the subject is limited, and the larger the scope, the more the likelihood of finding an absolute answer is diminished.

PS: If we're going to be harvested, isn't that a possible "why" to our existance?


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: LIVE and SHUT UP (or the cerebral part of my trip) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3024222 - 08/19/04 05:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well i've never heard anything about these ETs creating negative emotions in humans in order to harvest them and use them as a source of energy. If this is true, those ETs could have come by anytime in our history because we have always been fear driven animals.

I was thinking more of a harvest of spiritual energy that is obtained by meditation and such and that is fully bloomed in an individual when that individual is Enlightened.

The Indian texts describe enlightenment as taking many lifetimes to accomplish.
These memories of past life times you are talking about, do they come in flashes, or can you bring back their memory anytime you want?
Can you tell by these memories whether you were spiritually active, in the sense of meditating or anything else like that?
Sorry, I'm just very curious  :crazy:

Anyways, thanks for bringing that up, and i'll look up some information about Robert Monroe. SOunds like he could have some interesting ideas


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: LIVE and SHUT UP (or the cerebral part of my trip) [Re: exclusive58]
    #3024285 - 08/19/04 05:49 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

My work is software and system design and I paint for release - I have a couple of them in this blog's image area, and I did raise my kids tolerant of "whys" and did many quarter tabs of acid during that period.
On a separate mattter, I think you can use "Why"s when you are a critical ethicist, especially to highlight certain aspects to the extreme, but - as a systems person - I must say the scales usually tip when a confluence of issues converge. Systems accommodate process flows that are never just because of one thing or another, and yet never not without a trigger to an event (that could be taken for hte WHY).
This is most important - the trigger - which is usually taken as the why, is merely a part of the gun which is merely a part of the defense kit, which is merely part of some other systemic confluence.
Anyway,
if we are being herded up to be later harvested,
how would that make any difference, and would that not also be part of some system?


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: LIVE and SHUT UP (or the cerebral part of my trip) [Re: exclusive58]
    #3024558 - 08/19/04 06:57 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

For me personally, the best way to communicate with my friends is through various forms of laughter.

I usually can't speak very well on mushrooms, particularly if the person I'm talking to is on mushrooms as well, because their mind is somewhere else and processing language gets more difficult with the mind so "out there."

What I found most interesting is about your post here is that my "how" and "why" situation is usually the other way around.

I have no problem with the "why," usually, its the "how" that really kicks my ass :wink:

Why? Because!
How? Like THIS!

those are my best answers :smile: but the how is so much more stimulating for me than the why.

Often when I find myself getting too mixed up in thought on a trip I try to remember to just think "WOW!" and move on.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: LIVE and SHUT UP (or the cerebral part of my trip) [Re: Strumpling]
    #3024818 - 08/19/04 08:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Like this is excellent.


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