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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
Male
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 1,047
Loc: Wales (yes it is a countr...
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Lest we forget?
    #3017364 - 08/18/04 10:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It is the soldier, not the reporter,
Who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier,
Who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
Who allows the protester to burn the flag.

Amen. God bless America.



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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #3017634 - 08/18/04 12:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It is having a fucking voice box that has given me the power of free speech - Doug Stanhope.


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3017731 - 08/18/04 12:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, the poem would be somewhat more correct if the word 'given' was replaced with 'guaranteed'.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #3017999 - 08/18/04 01:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Too bad these soliders are being used like pawns in the neoconservative agenda game.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3019071 - 08/18/04 05:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, the poem would be somewhat more correct if the word 'given' was replaced with 'guaranteed'.

It would still be a long way from being even remotely correct tho.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #3019149 - 08/18/04 05:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It is the soldier,
Who salutes the flag,


I saw a documentary on the grunts who fought the Vietnam war the other day. They were saying how if an officer gave them too much shit they'd wait until he ran ahead a little and then put a bullet through his brain. Real soldiers generally have more important things on their mind than saluting flags.


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OfflineNorthernsoul
Your Reality

Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 2,290
Loc: Inner Eye
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: Vvellum]
    #3019235 - 08/18/04 06:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
Too bad these soliders are being used like pawns in the neoconservative agenda game.




Amen to that!

Its fucking unreal how theyve totaly used something as fundamental as your own soldiers to serve some neoconservative agenda, flat out.


--------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------

When it comes
I'll know, I know
Just take my clothes and leave
And I'll be gone




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OfflineAldous
enthusiast
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/20/99
Posts: 899
Loc: inside my skull
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3019488 - 08/18/04 06:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

C'mon, get real, soldiers have always been used as pawns in games and agendas that are way beyond even their imagination. They run on pure propaganda and lies. Nothing new to that.

And if my freedoms are based on murder and rape, I think that's a reason to think twice about them, and maybe to try to spread real freedom instead of protecting our local freedoms with guns and bombs.
Too much local (Western) freedom (to consume, to exploit) limits many others' freedom in far away, resource rich regions. It's like in the days where the (marginal) freedom of some people to own slaves limited the (fundamental) freedom of many others to live a free life and pursue hapiness.

Just my 2 cents, sorry if I horrified you.  :grin:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #3019553 - 08/18/04 07:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

st0nedphucker said:
It is the soldier, not the reporter,
Who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier,
Who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
Who allows the protester to burn the flag.

Amen. God bless America.






:puke: :puke: :puke:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3028030 - 08/20/04 12:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Its fucking unreal how theyve totaly used something as fundamental as your own soldiers to serve some neoconservative agenda, flat out.

:thumbup:

It's even more fucking sickening than I first thought if this is some half-assed justification of the invasion of Iraq.


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #3028428 - 08/20/04 02:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It was also the soldier that fire bombed dresden,
Or the soldier that dropped the bomb on Hiroshima,
Or the soldiers that rounded up the jews,
Or the soldiers that are this very second exterminating African Muslims in Sudan.

GOD BLESS THOSE FUCKING SOLDIERS


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #3028619 - 08/20/04 03:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

st0nedphucker said:
It is the soldier, not the reporter,
Who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier,
Who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
Who allows the protester to burn the flag.

Amen. God bless America.






Freedom isn't free.
May God bless America.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


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Invisibledownforpot
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: Skikid16]
    #3028648 - 08/20/04 03:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

US should not have dropped the bombs on Japan. A land invasion would have been much better.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: Skikid16]
    #3028836 - 08/20/04 04:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:rockon:

I've missed you Skikid!


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: downforpot]
    #3029462 - 08/20/04 07:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

US should not have dropped the bombs on Japan. A land invasion would have been much better.


Why is it one or the other. Remember that weird thing about Japan, that whole thing about it being an nation islands with little natural resources, food supply, or fuel supply (things all vital to the contiuation of a war, and the survival of a nation)

Oh and remember about that thing where nearly the entire Japanese fleet being destroyed during the course of the pacific campaign.

Oh and that other thing about our naval force being stronger at the end of the war than it ever had been before.

Why couldn't the Allied naval forces encirled Japan and starved them out until capitulation, is that more horrific than wiping out nearly 100k in one fell swoop? At least with this approach, Japan could've been pressured internationally, or maybe there would have been a revolt from within the Japanese population, or maybe the entire island would've starved due to their pride, but we'll never know.

But this is entirely off topic, to get back onto topic, I was just adding a counter to the rose-colored picture StonedPhucker painted.

Did these things not happen? Are they not all atrocities commited by soldiers, whether or not they were just carrying out orders.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: Skikid16]
    #3029512 - 08/20/04 07:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Skikid16 said:
Why couldn't the Allied naval forces encirled Japan and starved them out until capitulation, is that more horrific than wiping out nearly 100k in one fell swoop? At least with this approach, Japan could've been pressured internationally, or maybe there would have been a revolt from within the Japanese population, or maybe the entire island would've starved due to their pride, but we'll never know.




A large portion of Japs on the islands Americans had already taken over were jumping off cliffs to their deaths. This included women and children. You see to them to be captured is a worse fate than even death. They were not going to give up that easy. Also facing defeat i wouldn't have been suprised if they started killing off chinks at an even faster pace than in Nanking.



--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: d33p]
    #3030048 - 08/20/04 09:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

A large portion of Japs on the islands Americans had already taken over were jumping off cliffs to their deaths. This included women and children. You see to them to be captured is a worse fate than even death. They were not going to give up that easy.


That's fine, they could've been responsible for their own demise, I think it would be better than us being directly responsible (i know most people would still say we were responsible for starving them off, but surely you see the difference)


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Invisiblevampirism
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: Skikid16]
    #3030062 - 08/20/04 09:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well there ISNT much of a difference.
Thats like throwing someone off of a ship and saying it's their own damn fault for not knowing how to swim and drowning themselves.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: Skikid16]
    #3030082 - 08/20/04 09:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Skikid16 said:
Quote:

A large portion of Japs on the islands Americans had already taken over were jumping off cliffs to their deaths. This included women and children. You see to them to be captured is a worse fate than even death. They were not going to give up that easy.


That's fine, they could've been responsible for their own demise, I think it would be better than us being directly responsible (i know most people would still say we were responsible for starving them off, but surely you see the difference)




Umm, no. America made the right choice and lives were saved when looking at the bigt picture. Its just to bad nukes give off radioactivity.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Lest we forget? [Re: vampirism]
    #3030092 - 08/20/04 10:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Bull, in one case you drop a bomb, giving the people no chance to avoid certain doom. In the other you are saying "you can give up, or starve". The choice is present in the second, albeit the Japanese government probably wouldn't have allowed disserters, but at least it be on there heads.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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